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Cruizin

We know a ton about this engine, ask us ANYTHING!

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Cruizin

The Ténéré 700 engine IS the MT-07 engine. the CP2 Engine.  That's a fact. 

The moderators @TavisB @NRWhiteKnight @mjh937 and I also run the mt-07 forum at FZ-07.org and everything that could possibly be known or done to this CP2 engine is covered well on the MT-07 forum.

We will be sharing a ton of info with you here that has been tested and proven by thousands of MT-07 owners from all over the world.

Stay tuned guys , you are gonna love the low end torque, MPG and reliability of this engine.

 

 

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mjh937

I know the engine is the same but I wonder if they will change the fueling or gearing for the different mission.

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Cruizin
2 hours ago, mjh937 said:

I know the engine is the same but I wonder if they will change the fueling or gearing for the different mission.

I would think gearing would change a bit for a bike than go on dirt. Cool thing about bikes is the ease of changing sprockets to your desired tastes. I end up changing the gearing on most of the bikes that I own. 

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NRWhiteKnight
14 hours ago, admin said:

I would think gearing would change a bit for a bike than go on dirt. Cool thing about bikes is the ease of changing sprockets to your desired tastes. I end up changing the gearing on most of the bikes that I own. 

And if you change the sprockets you can get a speedo healer or something similar to correct for the difference. As for fueling, it might be they program it to be a little peppier for more fun in the dirt.

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norcal616

This little CP2 motor is a gem- spent the last 3yrs enjoying 18k plus miles of fun and learning the ins and outs of what this motor is capable of via the FZ-07 forum and my own tuning adventures... So far I have my little CP2 motor "Hordpowered"- what does that mean? I ditched the stock airbox for a "single pod filter"- I will say the stock airbox will be really well "put together" to meet all kinds of regs/rules,etc... over on the FZ-07 forum we have found aftermarket airfilters provide very little gains( approx 2hp)- even with "diffrent airfilter lids"... so you really dont even need to bother messing with it unless....   I am currently waiting to look at a OEM parts list and see if my FZ-07 and the T-7 share the same airbox part numbers ?

Edited by norcal616
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2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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dyno55
Posted (edited)
On 9/26/2018 at 3:10 AM, Cruizin said:

The Ténéré 700 engine IS the MT-07 engine. the CP2 Engine.  That's a fact. 

The moderators @TavisB @NRWhiteKnight @mjh937 and I also run the mt-07 forum at FZ-07.org and everything that could possibly be known or done to this CP2 engine is covered well on the MT-07 forum.

We will be sharing a ton of info with you here that has been tested and proven by thousands of MT-07 owners from all over the world.

Stay tuned guys , you are gonna love the low end torque, MPG and reliability of this engine.

 

 

the title of this thread caught me while waiting to receive my T7.  I'm from Bologna, Italy  and I have an advance down since 31st march for this bike. I recently had a chance to quickly road test it along a demo tour and while must say the bike works as good as expected, the engine also shows  its, totally forseen, limits. 

quick question: any big bore kit available / possible ? I've seen a few pics of this engine and I'm afraid seems to me there's not decent room for a bigger piston ...

I know something can be achieved by ecu-tuning and using a full, more open, exhaust ... but, that done alone,  would yield some side effects that, considering its off-road use, I would not like to trade with ( mainly loss of low-end response   and surely less grunt). That's why I'd be ready to fit a big bore kit ..and then be ready for an ecu tune and a more free flowing exhaust 😉 

thanks a lot

Edited by dyno55
misspell

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norcal616
39 minutes ago, dyno55 said:

the title of this thread caught me while waiting to receive my T7.  I'm from Bologna, Italy  and I have an advance down since 31st march for this bike. I recently had a chance to quickly road test it along a demo tour and while must say the bike works as good as expected, the engine also shows  its, totally forseen, limits. 

quick question: any big bore kit available / possible ? I've seen a few pics of this engine and I'm afraid seems to me there's not decent room for a bigger piston ...

I know something can be achieved by ecu-tuning and using a full, more open, exhaust ... but, that done alone,  would yield some side effects that, considering its off-road use, I would not like to trade with ( mainly loss of low-end response   and surely less grunt). That's why I'd be ready to fit a big bore kit ..and then be ready for an ecu tune and a more free flowing exhaust 😉 

thanks a lot

No big bore kits available... Some engine connecting rods available and a slightly (maybe a point higher) higher comp pistons... I don't expect to see any big bore kits anytime soon on the market

 

Overall the motor is ment for broad flat tractor torque off idle till about 7k RPMs... If anything, just change sprockets for more grunt... Aftermarket exhaust with tune seem to find about 5HP/TQ  avg across the brands, no major power loss down low, but the gains are near end of rev range...

 

Only real piece of restrictive hardware is the OEM airbox ( not very efficient past 7k RPMs) but that more personal as I want to use the entire rev range...

 

In all honesty, I'm waiting for Yamaha to "reverse tilt" the motor like they did a few years ago with the 4stroke dirt bike(250cc,450cc) line up...

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2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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dyno55

gearing is OK. as I said the bike and  the engine work good overall.   maybe because I'm usual to bigger bikes or because I'm heavy enough: if you are around 70kg then its perfect but under my nearly 100kilos it's just a bit  underpowered. I would just have loved a bit bigger displacement. The same problem I found with my Honda Forza 250 scooter ..before fitting in a Malossi 280cc big bore kit. unfortunately anything bigger was possible - LoL

 

Ok, you could say: why then didn't you go for ktm790 ? ... yes, that displacement would 've been perfect. BUT you know ..memories of 30-40 years before ... I wanted a Teneré again !

 

now, seriously: CP2  689cc is 80mm bore  per 68,6 stroke .

From the engine pic I'm attaching we see there's not a lot of meat between one cylinder and the other. I 'd assume it's about 10%. Let's say it's 7mm.

If  3mm, would it be safe enough ?  

suppose it is.

we would be able to fit 2x 84mm pistons.

... a quick calc and we get 380cc each cyl,  

or 760cc total.

Not as big as a TDM's displacement but a nice 10.3% improvement ;) 

B_1fb4dc3f2920a49a642fc1017a34e31d.jpg

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norcal616

Not to sound negative but this is way to much overthinking and lowering your expectations on a bike you have yet to own or I'm totally missing something... 

 

Best of luck... 


2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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dyno55

Norcal616, seems your missing my point .

 I read "Engine" forum section , here ! 

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shaneygrog

Those two bores are very close together. Now i'm no mechanic, nor an engineer but I would have thought boring this thing out and making the metal between those two bores even less, then riding the bike hard will in fact f*ck up the whole thing. It will get too hot.

 

Funny thing is the main selling point of this bike is that it's smaller than most other adventure bikes out there. If you want more power then why not have just bought one of the many larger ones currently available?

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HomerFX

Excuse me for intruding but the questioned was answered "No big bore kits available..." or at least non known. As the engine has been around several years the available experience with it is a treasure trove and great to share.

If a big bore kit were viable for racing there would be one and as the motor is so reliable there has been little need for replacement kits from a 3rd party like Athena or such.

No harm done pioneering new solutions and discussing possibilities but I would agree that the CP2 doesn't have much room to gain in a bigger bore and would be a serious intrusion to the proven integrity of the engine. None the less, expressing one's wishes, dreams and experiences on a forum is what it's about, maybe Yamaha and kit suppliers do listen in.

I must admit I have fantasized about the "reverse tilt" CP2 too, darn, that could open up a whole new dimension to rearrange things for a better cog like the YZ and WR have, the exhaust spaghetti would be a challenge though.

If the T700 is a success and the desire for more power becomes louder it would make sense for Yamaha to introduce a T900 using the CP3 engine in a adapted T700 frame, suspension and bodywork. Sure it will be slightly wider and heavier but would fit nicely into the gap to the Super Tenere.  

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dyno55
Posted (edited)

athanks guys for all your comments but if any mechanics/engineers will not step in, the point I raised will not go any further. reported info about attempts and experiences would be equally useful, though.

what I said from the beginning in my first post, besides  the awareness of  our skinny  cylinder walls, was intended to make clear I'm not looking for advice about choosing the best bike for me nor for Yamaha to listen and introduce a future T900.

Again, a Tenerè, twin, within 200 kgs weight and with that look was a great package for me on paper and I confirm it still is after having tested if for about half an hour. Btw, its gearing appeared to me very well matched ( final ratio of 15 pinion teeth and 46 rear crown, versus 16-43 of the street bike it comes from).

 Not harming the reliability of the engine is everyone's first concern and, except when fiddling with air filters and mufflers, should be taken into serious consideration by anyone thinking at an electronic tune.

 

hope someone will point me to the sought-after experiences&attempts

...hopefully, before we will see next year a totally new  Euro 5 compliant CP2 engine by Yamaha, maybe endowed with VVT valve train and .. a bunch more ccs. Lol 😉 

Edited by dyno55

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shaneygrog

Well I have given my bit of advice, like it or not. Of course if you REALLY wanted to bore it out you could. It is physically possible and because nobody has done it yet doesn't mean it can't be done. There may even be pistons out there from another engine that would suit that job.

 

Seriously though, this forum, as far as I can tell is just a bunch of people who want to own a T7, there well may be no mechanics here at all? Or as we have found out, nobody hear can send you towards someone who might do the job you want. I think you should look elsewhere for your advice. You would be better to find a list of the better mechanics who do big bore work on bikes in your part of the world and start talking to them.

Have you thought about other mods to get more power? It seems to me from all I have heard about this engine that it is in a pretty low state of tune. It has lots of power low down in the rev range but no blistering top end, a great thing for a bike like this but also a platform to gain a lot more top end power at the sacrifice of low end power with work to the engine without changing the size of the bore.

Good luck.

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dyno55

hi,  Shaneygrog 

must admit you're not reasoning badly .. 😉

The culprit of everything is this long wait... but I'm not really anxious of being the guinea pig with this mod.

..being suffering the tuning bug too many times, already. Lol

sure, if I already had the bike to ride with, I think I would just enjoy it as it is ...even if, must say,that damn bug usually hits me during the first six months I'm using the new toy.  so, I will see what will happen.

maybe it's a good thing there's no bore kit available..or I 'd have bought it. 90% chances.

No, not interested in other tunings ... long experience.

Just, I 'm keen on exhaust headers and collectors, but here, with only a pair of pipes there's not a great game ... moreover, if you don't have enough displacement you cannot compensate for torque fall all the times you are enlarging pipes for higher revvs 🙂

yes, boring out that engine would mean starting a never-ending tuning process.

 

Hopefully, it seems Yamaha will start deliveries of early orders on 22nd. next week. 

 

 

P.S.

me too, I was surprised to see  how thin this Honda  scooter bore kit was ! (just 1.25mm of wall thickness). After a couplethousands miles it  still works good.  but it's a single, not a parallel twin ..857839846_Canna125mm_20181205_000945W.thumb.jpg.6ea34b893d2ee9ab0c808e6eca2ef83b.jpg., 

 

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shaneygrog

So you may have your bike next week? You must be pretty happy with that thought. Run it in then go find the adventure trails!

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Rocket Ronny
Posted (edited)
On 7/18/2019 at 12:56 AM, dyno55 said:

....

 

P.S.

me too, I was surprised to see  how thin this Honda  scooter bore kit was ! (just 1.25mm of wall thickness). After a couplethousands miles it  still works good.  but it's a single, not a parallel twin ..., 

 

This 1.25mm indeed canNOT be compared with the parallel twin situation: in th single cilinder engine this 1.25mm is helped by the aluminium aroud it at the level where the pressure is, above the piston rings. It’s only where the piston skirt comes, to prevent the piston from tilting, where it is not supported by surrounding metal. This also counts for thermal dissipation. 

In a multiple cilinder layout this is totally different and can easily lead to disaster. Which is totally up to you to experiment with and find out yourself🥴

Please send in your detailed pictures when disaster strikes😉

Edited by Rocket Ronny

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Rocket Ronny

PS: a bit off topic, but maybe nice to know I rode the T700 yesterday and think it is totally up to the job. Yes, power is never enough and I also ride a 171HP tuned Monster 1200 with carbon rims etc. But that’s just not the point of this bike

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dyno55
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Rocket Ronny said:

This 1.25mm indeed canNOT be compared with the parallel twin situation...

 

 

nice to see you are able to read what I specified myself !

 

Obviously the point is THERMAL STRESS

and it's true that in traditional cylinder design the weakest point is the bottom part of the cylinder,

but our twin cylinders have a different (or non-traditional) design and there will be more than just one weak point.

It's also true that our pistons run @ 90° distance one from the other (pins of  rods are pivoted at that distance) . our crankshaft is in fact a so-called 270 degree "cross style" (while improperly). 

Power strokes are even more distant, one from the other and   in fact we have firings that alternate each 270°, then 450°, then again 270° and so on.

Therefore, less contemporary thermal stress at a certain area.

 

 

This said, for sure 1,25mm is out of consideration. But, 3 mm,  could deserve further consideration. 

 

Edited by dyno55

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dyno55
49 minutes ago, Rocket Ronny said:

PS: a bit off topic, but maybe nice to know I rode the T700 yesterday and think it is totally up to the job. Yes, power is never enough and I also ride a 171HP tuned Monster 1200 with carbon rims etc. But that’s just not the point of this bike

 

just curious, who makes carbon rims for bikes nowadays ?

... I have Dymag carbon rims, but for car 😉

 

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Cruizin
On 9/27/2018 at 2:55 PM, NRWhiteKnight said:

And if you change the sprockets you can get a speedo healer or something similar to correct for the difference. As for fueling, it might be they program it to be a little peppier for more fun in the dirt.

How ya doing man? Its gametime in UK and other parts of the world. 

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NRWhiteKnight
3 hours ago, Cruizin said:

How ya doing man? Its gametime in UK and other parts of the world. 

Still kickin'. Yes it is gametime. Things should start to ramp up soon as deliveries start to take place. 🙂

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Rocket Ronny
On 7/21/2019 at 9:16 PM, dyno55 said:

 

just curious, who makes carbon rims for bikes nowadays ?

... I have Dymag carbon rims, but for car 😉

 

BST in South Africa

423F295A-DED1-4370-8A5B-27296AAAEC8F.jpeg

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