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Bleeding split front brake. Is there a trick?


duggram

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Any advice on bleeding the front brakes? I mounted a high gender which requires splitting the brake lines. I've been bleeding brakes for decades but never on a front brake system where I divided a single inline system into a bifurcated system that went into two, and came through an ABS unit. The procedure described in the service manual sounds like standard brake bleeding. Maybe there's something special about this I don't realize. I get fluid flowing out of both calipers, but I'm not getting any resistance at the lever. Am I overlooking something?

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2 hours ago, duggram said:

Any advice on bleeding the front brakes? I mounted a high gender which requires splitting the brake lines. I've been bleeding brakes for decades but never on a front brake system where I divided a single inline system into a bifurcated system that went into two, and came through an ABS unit. The procedure described in the service manual sounds like standard brake bleeding. Maybe there's something special about this I don't realize. I get fluid flowing out of both calipers, but I'm not getting any resistance at the lever. Am I overlooking something?

Hi Duggram,

I have had the same problem and it took quite long time before all the air was gone.  Don't know if there is a special procedure.

Tips & tricks are welcome.  I think that I have flushed more than half a liter brakefluid through the calipers.

But finally I felt some resistance and few more bleeds it was ok.

Edited by Dipstick
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2 hours ago, duggram said:

Any advice on bleeding the front brakes? I mounted a high gender which requires splitting the brake lines. I've been bleeding brakes for decades but never on a front brake system where I divided a single inline system into a bifurcated system that went into two, and came through an ABS unit. The procedure described in the service manual sounds like standard brake bleeding. Maybe there's something special about this I don't realize. I get fluid flowing out of both calipers, but I'm not getting any resistance at the lever. Am I overlooking something?

Bleed as much as you can the remove the calipers & elevate them above the reservoir, then leave them for a few hours for the micro bubbles to move through the oil then bleed again. 

This should remove all the air & give you solid contact under breaking. 

Do the same for the rear caliper as well. 

Edited by T7lee
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3 minutes ago, Dipstick said:

Hi Duggram,

I have had the same problem and it took quite long time before all the air was gone.  Don't know if there is a special procedure.

Tips & tricks are welcome.  I think that I have flushed more than half a liter brakefluid through the calipers.

Adding new fluid also pushes more air in to the oil, once the system is empty back fill the break line through the bleed point with a syringe, once the oil reaches the head of the reserviour then fill the reservoir. See my other post on bleeding the micro air bubbles from the oil. 

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40 minutes ago, T7lee said:

Bleed as much as you can the remove the calipers & elevate them above the reservoir, then leave them for a few hours for the micro bubbles to move through the oil then bleed again. 

This should remove all the air & give you solid contact under breaking. 

Do the same for the rear caliper as well. 

Exactly that, calliper up high!

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Bumping this thread. 

 

I got the Camel Adv high fender mount and admittedly have never done a brake bleed on any vehicle. After reading what appears to be the entire internet on brake bleeds, I think Ive got a marginal basis and am going to give it a shot. 

 

My question is this: I understand that I need to remove the brake fluid from both of the front calipers and lines before removing the brake lines and install Camel's re-rout. Then I fill the front brake reservoir, carefully to not add air bubbles back through both front campers. One caliper, watching reservoir until clear and then other caliper, fill reservoir until clear of bubbles. 

 

Do I need to  drain the rear brake as well before changing out the front lines? Or if not, do I need to bleed the rear brake after doing the front? Or is it totally separate from the front? Or does ABS add another element into my limited knowledge of doing this? 

 

You want to talk anything commercial or industrial electrical, Im your man. Brakes? I'm as green as fresh brake pads...if your new brake pads are green. 

 

Any advice from those that know would be soooo helpful as Im going to try and do this in about 12 hours. Thanks 700 family. 

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Hmm. While I haven't dove into the T7 front brakes, I do have a LOT of experience with a '93 Yamaha GTS - Yamaha's first crack at ABS. The front brake line is 8.2' long from the bars to the ABS actuator under the seat and then to the caliper on the front swingarm. When I replaces the lines with braided SS ones, the whole system was empty. I used the brake lever to pump fluid into the system to fill it, but bleeding all the air out was a completely different experience. I've done the bleeding 4 different ways.

 

1st was to bleed it like any other Japanese bike - fill the reservoir and pump the lever 2-3 times with the bleed valve closed, then hold the lever and crack the bleed screw. Kinda worked until the ABS actuator got air in it, then not so much. This method only works when there is no significant 'high spots' in the hose between the caliper and the master cylinder, so the air bubbles either go to the caliper or up to the master cylinder.

 

The second way is to use a vacuum bleeder on the bleed screw and make sure the reservoir is always full. Had much better luck with that. Unbolt the caliper(s) and raise them as high as they will go, draw a vacuum on the bleed screw, and draw fluid from the master cylinder. This vacuum should draw all the air out of the ABS actuator if any gets into it.

 

The third way is similar to the second except you use master cylinder pressure and elevated caliper(s) to push the air up by pumping fluid up to the caliper. This is explained in the above posts.

 

My final method was to purchase these little gems - 

that consist of a check valve in the bleed screw. Don't need to remove my caliper, or use the vacuum bleeder, or anything else. Just use the brake lever to build pressure, with the bleed screw cracked, and let the check valve do its magic. Took my by-annual brake dis-assembly/re-assembly and bleeding on the GTS from about 2 hours to about 30 minutes.

 

Finally, the front and rear brakes are separate fluid circuits. Removing the front lines/hoses/calipers will not affect the rear bakes.

 

Good luck.

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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Thanks so much for the feedback. Ive got a pump to use and hope that will work. It's good to know that I dont need to touch the rear brakes at all. Anybody else have any useful info on the project Im all ears. Cheers. 

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OK. So I just did my first brake bleed ever after installing the Camel high fender mount @Camel ADV The front brake lever seems to pull a bit deeper in the pull now. ABS light isn't showing a warning and when I turn it off I can lock up the tires. The bike still stops and even with ABS on, it stops the bike. Like I said it just seems the front brake lever now goes much closer to the handle bar. I know it's not a problem with the Camel kit. that thing is a piece of art. Absolute quality and it took me about 2.5 having never pulled the bike apart before and never doing a brake job. If I did it again it would take me about an hour. 

 

So knowing it likely pilot error, would you guess there's still air bubbles in there? Is that what happens when there is? I ran out of DOT 4 so should I try to do another bleed or is it perhaps just the design that would make it this way. Again, the bike stops just wondering why the change coming from a rookie on brakes. 

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If you lever pull is more than before you tied into it, there could only be 2 problems. 1, there is flex in the system - lines, adapter block etc. HIGHLY unlikely with the Camel setup. 2, you have air in the system. Try a little trick. If you are not using the bike for a little while, park it so the brake master is high and that all the lines, including the ones to the ABS actuator under the tank do not have high spot 'loops' in them as best as you can. These high spot loops will hold air bubbles. After about 12-24hrs, pull off the master cylinder cover, plastic plate and rubber baffle, and VERY lightly and relatively slowly pull in the brake lever about an 1/8-1/4" measured at the lever tip and release. Watch for bubbles coming out of the hole closest to where the hose exits out of the master (should be left hole when sitting on the bike). Do this a couple of times, then stop, and jiggle/wiggle the hoses all the way up starting from the calipers to the master. Lightly pump (as described above) the lever again. Do this a few times and you will likely get most of the residual air out, slowly. This takes patience and time. DO NOT PUMP THE LEVER HARD, or you will need a shower, and your bike will need a wash as it and you will be covered in brake fluid.

 

Good luck.

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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5 hours ago, johnnygolucky said:

OK. So I just did my first brake bleed ever after installing the Camel high fender mount @Camel ADV The front brake lever seems to pull a bit deeper in the pull now. ABS light isn't showing a warning and when I turn it off I can lock up the tires. The bike still stops and even with ABS on, it stops the bike. Like I said it just seems the front brake lever now goes much closer to the handle bar. I know it's not a problem with the Camel kit. that thing is a piece of art. Absolute quality and it took me about 2.5 having never pulled the bike apart before and never doing a brake job. If I did it again it would take me about an hour. 

 

So knowing it likely pilot error, would you guess there's still air bubbles in there? Is that what happens when there is? I ran out of DOT 4 so should I try to do another bleed or is it perhaps just the design that would make it this way. Again, the bike stops just wondering why the change coming from a rookie on brakes. 

If you're trying to bleed it on the center stand, switch to the side stand. The fender mount bracket/manifold can get air trapped in it if it's 100% flat while bleeding. Putting it on the side stand adds some lean to it and helps get the air out.

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Bits and pieces for your adventure bike. Camel-ADV.com

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4 minutes ago, Camel ADV said:

If you're trying to bleed it on the center stand, switch to the side stand. The fender mount bracket/manifold can get air trapped in it if it's 100% flat while bleeding. Putting it on the side stand adds some lean to it and helps get the air out.

Thanks for the reply Corey. I appreciate that. Im curious to how a closed/sealed piece of aluminum like that could allow air to get in it if it's flat or otherwise? Nonetheless, more importantly yes I was on a ATV lift so level. I had to otherwise taking off the brake reservoir cover would just spill DOT 4 everywhere as it's at such an angle. Do you then take off your handle bars or front brake to work on it? Just curious to your approach. 

 

it does sound like I do have some air in it though. 

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17 minutes ago, johnnygolucky said:

Thanks for the reply Corey. I appreciate that. Im curious to how a closed/sealed piece of aluminum like that could allow air to get in it if it's flat or otherwise? Nonetheless, more importantly yes I was on a ATV lift so level. I had to otherwise taking off the brake reservoir cover would just spill DOT 4 everywhere as it's at such an angle. Do you then take off your handle bars or front brake to work on it? Just curious to your approach. 

 

it does sound like I do have some air in it though. 

It's not a matter of it not being sealed and air getting it to it. When you install it there is air in the whole system and you push it out with the brake fluid. The air that is already there can get trapped in high spots and tight corners. There are a few of these small spots inside our bracket so having it sit on an angle helps get the air out, pushed through the hoses, into the caliper and out the bleed screw.

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Bits and pieces for your adventure bike. Camel-ADV.com

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16 minutes ago, Camel ADV said:

It's not a matter of it not being sealed and air getting it to it. When you install it there is air in the whole system and you push it out with the brake fluid. The air that is already there can get trapped in high spots and tight corners. There are a few of these small spots inside our bracket so having it sit on an angle helps get the air out, pushed through the hoses, into the caliper and out the bleed screw.

Copy that. I guess I'll remove my handlers to try and get the brake reservoir level to add oil but keep the bike on the side stand and do a bleed again. Thanks for the tip man! 

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Hey johnnygolucky, just checking in on your brake bleed. I'm assuming you had success?

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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16 minutes ago, Canzvt said:

Hey johnnygolucky, just checking in on your brake bleed. I'm assuming you had success?

Yes sir. All's well in the stoppage department. My first brake bleed and still had a little air in it, pilot error on trial run. Learned a lot from it. The Camel high fender kit is absolutely awesome. Brought my bike to the dealer I bought it from and everybody in the shop came out to see all the mods and everyone especially liked the Camel mod and I think they're going to be buying some kits to offer as a add on. 

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On 7/17/2020 at 1:50 PM, T7lee said:

Adding new fluid also pushes more air in to the oil, once the system is empty back fill the break line through the bleed point with a syringe, once the oil reaches the head of the reserviour then fill the reservoir. See my other post on bleeding the micro air bubbles from the oil. 

I have used this method on a few different bikes. It works great. I pick up cheap agricultural syringes at farm stores and small diameter nylon hose slips right over the syringe nipple and bleeder screw. 

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On 8/19/2020 at 8:53 AM, Canzvt said:

Hmm. While I haven't dove into the T7 front brakes, I do have a LOT of experience with a '93 Yamaha GTS - Yamaha's first crack at ABS. The front brake line is 8.2' long from the bars to the ABS actuator under the seat and then to the caliper on the front swingarm. When I replaces the lines with braided SS ones, the whole system was empty. I used the brake lever to pump fluid into the system to fill it, but bleeding all the air out was a completely different experience. I've done the bleeding 4 different ways.

 

1st was to bleed it like any other Japanese bike - fill the reservoir and pump the lever 2-3 times with the bleed valve closed, then hold the lever and crack the bleed screw. Kinda worked until the ABS actuator got air in it, then not so much. This method only works when there is no significant 'high spots' in the hose between the caliper and the master cylinder, so the air bubbles either go to the caliper or up to the master cylinder.

 

The second way is to use a vacuum bleeder on the bleed screw and make sure the reservoir is always full. Had much better luck with that. Unbolt the caliper(s) and raise them as high as they will go, draw a vacuum on the bleed screw, and draw fluid from the master cylinder. This vacuum should draw all the air out of the ABS actuator if any gets into it.

 

The third way is similar to the second except you use master cylinder pressure and elevated caliper(s) to push the air up by pumping fluid up to the caliper. This is explained in the above posts.

 

My final method was to purchase these little gems - 

that consist of a check valve in the bleed screw. Don't need to remove my caliper, or use the vacuum bleeder, or anything else. Just use the brake lever to build pressure, with the bleed screw cracked, and let the check valve do its magic. Took my by-annual brake dis-assembly/re-assembly and bleeding on the GTS from about 2 hours to about 30 minutes.

 

Finally, the front and rear brakes are separate fluid circuits. Removing the front lines/hoses/calipers will not affect the rear bakes.

 

Good luck.

Which model of speed bleeders did you buy?

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Canzvt mention using a brake bleeder. While I haven’t done my T7 yet, I had a HD bagger that was a nightmare to bleed the front brakes. I finally purchased Mityvac MV8000 Professional Single Person Manual Brake and Clutch Bleeding Tune-up Kit.

 

The kit simplified brake bleeding on the HD and has worked on many different vehicles, and your able to test for vacuum leaks as well. That what I use for all bleeding chores. Anyone try one on the T7?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_3FMRXBJGXABJ10Z0K7XN
 

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3 hours ago, kainic said:

Which model of speed bleeders did you buy?

I have not fitted speed bleeders to my T7 so I am not POSITIVE these are the ones you need, but my best guess would be to purchase this part number - SB8125 or SB8125L. The 8 stands for 8mm, the 125 stands for a 1.25mm thread pitch. The L stands for long. The best way to figure it out is to measure the thread diameter of the ones you have on your bike without removing them if possible (so you don't have to bleed it un-necessarily). It should be 8mm as Yamaha hasn't used 7mm bleed screws for years on street bikes.

 

Here's a link to the page.

 

http://speedbleeder.com/bikechart.htm

 

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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