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WARNING: Oil plug & torque specifications 16 ft lbs max


Johnny Fuel

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Same issue with the drain plug...

 

So now I need to replace the oil pan.  Looks like the headers need to be removed, or at least moved out of the way.  Does anyone have experience with making this repair?  Any tips? 

 

Also, can I lightly coat the new rubber gasket with oil or do I need to use some kind of gasket sealer?  

 

 

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@JDMT lightly coat rubber gasket with oil. I've always been told to go another half turn tight from when the gasket first makes contact, fill engine with new oil, then fire it up and check for leaks at filter and drain plug. Easy!

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8 hours ago, JDMT said:

Same issue with the drain plug...

 

So now I need to replace the oil pan.  Looks like the headers need to be removed, or at least moved out of the way.  Does anyone have experience with making this repair?  Any tips? 

 

Also, can I lightly coat the new rubber gasket with oil or do I need to use some kind of gasket sealer?  

 

 

Huge bummer, but I've been there myself. In my case, I took it do the Yamaha dealer who did the work at no charge. So I have no idea what they had to do exactly. 

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Still waiting for that one user with the "in" at Yamaha to tell us why 32lb-ft is totally cool and normal despite people breaking stuff when they put their drain plug back in or having it already be broken when they take it out for the very first time. 

 

Standing by what I've always said for new DIYers. Do NOT use a torque wrench on your drain plug. Make it snug to the case and give it another 1/2 turn or so. It's not rocket surgery, it's a fluid plug. I'd have a dozen Tenere's and a nice garage to park them all in if I got a dollar every time someone was stranded at home with a broken drain plug/oil pan because they were either inexperienced with a torque wrench or using one way too big for a drain plug. I'd really be loaded if I could go to all them and charge for drilling and a tapping their oil pan so they could use a $0.79 bolt instead of buying a whole new oil pan. 

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I never use a torque wrench on the drain plug either.  But there are many that don't know about not using one; so I don't fault them at all.  However, I can't believe this ia actually happening with others and their plugs being stripped or broken from the factory.

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There are few bolts i use a torque wrench and the oil drain pug is not one of them.
I also changed the stupid aluminium hollow seal ring for a simple copper one wich i reuse a lot of times, in my Crosstourer i put a new one in after 120.000km and only because i got 5 for free when i said i want a copper ring for the T7 in stead of the OEM type.

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4 hours ago, advsquid said:

It's not rocket surgery"

Great quote!!

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On 2/1/2023 at 7:41 PM, Johnny Fuel said:

Huge bummer, but I've been there myself. In my case, I took it do the Yamaha dealer who did the work at no charge. So I have no idea what they had to do exactly. 

I got the parts from the dealer last Thursday.  An aluminum oil pan with a new drain plug and crush washer already installed.  I also got a new metal gasket, which I thought was going to be rubber.  

 

Removal of the oil pan required removal of the skid plate (I have an SW Motech skid plate), the front and rear supports for the skid plate (which I think are OEM, as I didn't originally buy/install the SW Motech skid plate), and the header part of the exhaust (had to remove the horn to make that happen).  Removal of the oil pan was then relatively easy.  The left rear-most bolt was a pain to remove -- I had to insert a 1/4" drive extender between two metal portions of the foot peg/center stand support (I think), then attach the 5mm hex socket head to the extender.  A regular hex likely won't work as the angle is a bit "off," so I used a ball head 5mm hex, which worked better.  

 

Once the last bolt was out, the pan came off easily.  I gently removed the old metal gasket, as it was loosely stuck to the bottom of the motor.  I cleaned everything with a shop towel, coated the top of the new oil pan and gasket with a light coat of oil and reassembled everything using the Service Manual torque setting -- 15 ft-lbs.  I have to say I was nervous about that, but it all worked fine.

 

I added oil and let it sit overnight to see if anything leaked.  It did not.  I then fired up the bike Friday morning and let run to operating temp.  All looked good.  I took it for a test ride later in the day and it all looked good too.  Saturday I did a nice 150-ish mile ride, half on 2-track dirt roads.  All is good, it seems, with the world again.  

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23 minutes ago, JDMT said:

I got the parts from the dealer last Thursday.  An aluminum oil pan with a new drain plug and crush washer already installed.  I also got a new metal gasket, which I thought was going to be rubber.  

 

Removal of the oil pan required removal of the skid plate (I have an SW Motech skid plate), the front and rear supports for the skid plate (which I think are OEM, as I didn't originally buy/install the SW Motech skid plate), and the header part of the exhaust (had to remove the horn to make that happen).  Removal of the oil pan was then relatively easy.  The left rear-most bolt was a pain to remove -- I had to insert a 1/4" drive extender between two metal portions of the foot peg/center stand support (I think), then attach the 5mm hex socket head to the extender.  A regular hex likely won't work as the angle is a bit "off," so I used a ball head 5mm hex, which worked better.  

 

Once the last bolt was out, the pan came off easily.  I gently removed the old metal gasket, as it was loosely stuck to the bottom of the motor.  I cleaned everything with a shop towel, coated the top of the new oil pan and gasket with a light coat of oil and reassembled everything using the Service Manual torque setting -- 15 ft-lbs.  I have to say I was nervous about that, but it all worked fine.

 

I added oil and let it sit overnight to see if anything leaked.  It did not.  I then fired up the bike Friday morning and let run to operating temp.  All looked good.  I took it for a test ride later in the day and it all looked good too.  Saturday I did a nice 150-ish mile ride, half on 2-track dirt roads.  All is good, it seems, with the world again.  

Well done, thanks for the detailed description.

FYI, the skid plate attachment braces are not OEM. These are afaik a SW Motech specialty, I like them a lot since skid removal/installation is super easy that way.

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  • 1 month later...

I do not torque oil bolts and filters. Actually I dont torque most things that come on and off with frequency. The only things I torque are engine components after a rebuild since its likely that I will never touch them again.

Its very unlikely that your bolt will rattle off in one ride. If you're very afraid of bolts rattling off but a dab of paint (preferably something that can wash off) on the bolt n the case to see if the bolt has moved.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 months later...

So just want to contribute to this thread. My bike has about 5000 miles on it went to change the oil just to keep things fresh. Dealer did all services before. Removed the drain plug and the threads from the oil pan came with it. I would imagine someone over tightened it causing this to happen. I am not forcing the drain plug in to cause the broken thread to go into the engine. So now I have the bike in my garage waiting to hear from the dealer as they did the 4000 mile service in September 2023 and my warranty expired October 1st 2023. Will keep all posted. 

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Seems to be a trend of stripping threads whilst following recommended torque…. Reading this a week after my post of stripping the caliper bolts after following the recommended torque.

 

Putting the whole ‘do it by feel’ and ‘dodgy torque wrench’ comments aside theres does seem to be a trend of recommended high torque figures and results of stripping threads 🤔

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2 hours ago, Dibles said:

Seems to be a trend of stripping threads whilst following recommended torque…. Reading this a week after my post of stripping the caliper bolts after following the recommended torque.

 

Putting the whole ‘do it by feel’ and ‘dodgy torque wrench’ comments aside theres does seem to be a trend of recommended high torque figures and results of stripping threads 🤔


So about an hour after I emailed the dealer they told me to bring it in. They informed me they would helicoil a new thread. I insisted that the replace the pan due to the current one being compromised, they agreed and informed me that nothing should be coming out of my pocket. In all my years of doing oil changes on my personal vehicles I have never used torque specs to tighten a drain plug. Let this be a warning to new owners to stay on top of dealers and learn from others experiences. Bike should be back on the road by end of week. 

Edited by MRT7
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3 hours ago, Dibles said:

Seems to be a trend of stripping threads whilst following recommended torque…. Reading this a week after my post of stripping the caliper bolts after following the recommended torque.

 

Putting the whole ‘do it by feel’ and ‘dodgy torque wrench’ comments aside theres does seem to be a trend of recommended high torque figures and results of stripping threads 🤔

The problem seems to be as follows: People (also dealers) tend to reuse the copper washer, because it still looks good. Yamaha service manual requests to replace the washer every time. As far as I understand, the recommended torque is required to properly seat or "crush" the new copper washer.

If the washer had been crushed before, it's now thinner, and the high torque doesn't work mainly on the washer, but on the thread.

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Torque is transmitted by the thread. The effect is to crush the washer.

It wouldn't matter whether the washer was new or used the "bursting" force on the threads will be the same.

A copper washer won't "crush"; it will deform to form a seal. A copper washer can be used several times by heating to its annealing temperature ( usually where the copper changes colour.

I almost never buy new copper washers but use oil resistant sealer ( Hylomar or similar ) and carefully hand tighten.

Eventually the washer will squash out and possibly crack. When that happens it is time for a new one.

 

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Alcohol! No good story starts with a salad.

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19 hours ago, MRT7 said:

..... In all my years of doing oil changes on my personal vehicles I have never used torque specs to tighten a drain plug. .....

How many of these vehicles had a steel plug with an aluminum pan?  Just curious....

"ADV  ONE DROP AT A TIME " - Chronicles of Solid

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47 minutes ago, chadio said:

How many of these vehicles had a steel plug with an aluminum pan?  Just curious....

Maybe I should have rephrased my statement. In all my years of changing my own oil I have never used torque spec on a drain plug and have never had 1.) oil leak from the drain plug. Gaskets, yes. 2.) striped thread by over tightening. The “feel” method has been good in my experience. But I could be mistaken by my methods. 
 

 

Edited by MRT7
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On 10/31/2023 at 9:40 PM, Tenerider said:

The problem seems to be as follows: People (also dealers) tend to reuse the copper washer, because it still looks good. Yamaha service manual requests to replace the washer every time. As far as I understand, the recommended torque is required to properly seat or "crush" the new copper washer.

If the washer had been crushed before, it's now thinner, and the high torque doesn't work mainly on the washer, but on the thread.

100%.

The difference is a "hard-joint" (reusing old washer) vs. "softer-joint" (new washer).  You can expect a certain amount of torque relaxation with a soft joint that won't be present in a hard joint.  Did many fuji paper joint studies in a past life to observe how clamp force is affected by capscrew spacing, geometry, etc.  The hardness of the joint will also affect the ramp up of capscrew elongation.  Likely the hard joint (from reusing washers) has a faster ramp up of elongation and mechanics are overshooting how much the threads can support, pulling out the threads.  It's more difficult to strip threads in a soft joint; use a new washer and you will be fine at the recommended torque.

 

 

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On 11/1/2023 at 8:56 PM, MRT7 said:

Maybe I should have rephrased my statement. In all my years of changing my own oil I have never used torque spec on a drain plug and have never had 1.) oil leak from the drain plug. Gaskets, yes. 2.) striped thread by over tightening. The “feel” method has been good in my experience. But I could be mistaken by my methods. 
 

 

Likewise 

I don’t often use a torque wrench and never on oil changes on most bikes I own 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My drain plus was really tight as well on my first oil change, I had to double check I was indeed loosen it... I didn't go as tight for sure. I never used a torch wrench for oil plug, a matter of fact I only use a torque wrench if its for safety (example, wheel studs) or Uniformity (example, head bolts), I go by feel, tight is tight I don't need a torque wrench to tell me and I've never strip, lost or snap a bolt. 

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Did the first oil change DIY on my T7 today.

Good thing I had the info in this thread. 

 

I did use a torque wrench,  as I don't have the best feel for torquing down stuff. I usually tend to undertorque bolts if I don't use one.

Anyway, I set my torque wrench to 30NM (instead of 43) and even that felt "plenty". I was actually hoping it activates because even 30NM felt almost too much. 

Couldn't immagine putting on even more. To think they torque it down to 43NM at the dealer makes me cringe a little. It must feel so wrong to do it. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found this thread after attempting the first oil change and f'ing up my threads following the 32 ft-lb spec.

 

My Tenere has been at the dealer for three weekends now waiting decision to repair under warranty or kick me to the curb!

 

 

 

 

Edited by EverydayTenere
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