T7 Dyno Graph Breakdowns

[Hammerhead]

This is a fantastic wealth of straight shooting information.  No bias smoke screen sales pitches attempting to sell unnecessary over priced gear. Just honest experienced  professional info to help everyone make educated affordable choices for what suits their riding & bank accounts best. Much appreciated @2 Wheel DynoWorks!

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

3 hours ago, MikeCMP said:

@2 Wheel DynoWorks When you guys advocate removing the snorkel, do you remove the entire snorkel, or can you just remove the part the protrudes waaaayyy into the airbox and leave some / all of the tube above the airbox. My non-expert opinion made me figure that the part protruding into the airbox was likely responsible for all the restriction since iots down past a good deal of the air filter. I like there being a "lip" of some kind on the top of the airbox to keep the little bit of stray water that makes it way there out. 

 

Took advantage of the black friday sale just need to decide when to take the ECU off and mail it in. Looks like riding season is just about done for me as we are getting a foot of snow in the next couple days

The ENTIRE snorkel needs to go. Both the portion protruding into the airbox AND the 90 degree bend into the lid are restrictions. Just yank the whole thing out and toss it in the trash.

 

-2WDW

[dashredder]

Just got my T7 and took a look at that snorkel when installing a Battery Tender lead.  

 

- Is there a way to use a pre-filter on that airbox after the removal of the snorkel?  Any specific suggestions?  Have a run up the NVBDR planned and I imagine there will be plenty of sand and dust to contend with.

[dashredder]

And how with the T7 perform with this flash when using 87 octane gas?  Of course I'll buy 91 or 93 when available, however, it can be days at a time that I can't buy anything but 87 on some of the rides.  

[dashredder]

Found this in another thread from @2 Wheel DynoWorks

 

"We've seen time and time again on the dyno that these engines do NOT like to operate on 87 octane under heavy load/high temperatures anyway. After a few full throttle passes, the power starts to drop dramatically as engine temperatures increase and heat soak sets in. You'll experience this on AND off road after a couple hours of riding, or SOONER, if it is a particularly warm day and you're riding aggressively. We HIGHLY recommend only ever using premium (91-93) pump gas in these engines, even in completely stock configuration. You can find 91 virtually anywhere that you can find 87, so it's just a non-issue, honestly."

I agree most metro area fuel stations provide 91 or 93, however, many of the (very) rural areas some T7 riders plan on going only sell 87.  Like for days at a time.  I've had plenty of tuned bikes in the past and they all worked until I could get a proper fill.  I just want to be certain the bike will run and not fall into a shut down condition if the fuel is less than ideal for a few tanks.  

 

--ALSO, is the fan temp change to 195 from stock (over 200 I belive) a necessity or can I retain the stock temp or provide a custom number for turn on?  I ask about this because I had a former bike (BMW) that had a lowered fan on temp and it literally never shut off if I came to a stop or slow roll.  Looking forward to hearing back.     

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

On 1/10/2021 at 9:16 AM, dashredder said:

Found this in another thread from @2 Wheel DynoWorks

 

"We've seen time and time again on the dyno that these engines do NOT like to operate on 87 octane under heavy load/high temperatures anyway. After a few full throttle passes, the power starts to drop dramatically as engine temperatures increase and heat soak sets in. You'll experience this on AND off road after a couple hours of riding, or SOONER, if it is a particularly warm day and you're riding aggressively. We HIGHLY recommend only ever using premium (91-93) pump gas in these engines, even in completely stock configuration. You can find 91 virtually anywhere that you can find 87, so it's just a non-issue, honestly."

I agree most metro area fuel stations provide 91 or 93, however, many of the (very) rural areas some T7 riders plan on going only sell 87.  Like for days at a time.  I've had plenty of tuned bikes in the past and they all worked until I could get a proper fill.  I just want to be certain the bike will run and not fall into a shut down condition if the fuel is less than ideal for a few tanks.  

 

--ALSO, is the fan temp change to 195 from stock (over 200 I belive) a necessity or can I retain the stock temp or provide a custom number for turn on?  I ask about this because I had a former bike (BMW) that had a lowered fan on temp and it literally never shut off if I came to a stop or slow roll.  Looking forward to hearing back.     

There's no parameter in the ECU that would ever cause a shutdown situation due to running 87 octane instead of 91+ in a pinch.

 

The stock fans do not come on until 215* F. Optimal cylinder temperatures for optimal combustion and performance is 195*F, which is why the fans will come on at 200 and shut off at 190.

 

-2WDW

[Goldentaco]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:21 AM, dashredder said:

Just got my T7 and took a look at that snorkel when installing a Battery Tender lead.  

 

- Is there a way to use a pre-filter on that airbox after the removal of the snorkel?  Any specific suggestions?  Have a run up the NVBDR planned and I imagine there will be plenty of sand and dust to contend with.

TwinAir makes a Prefilter kit that replaces the top plate of the air box and adds a prefilter.

 

J

[TimeMachine]

Just wanted to share the sound of the 2WheelDynoWorks tune while riding in the forest. I have removed the butt plug from my SC Projects exhaust and it is running sweet with no popping on overrun and no jerkiness in the throttle. Worth a listen I think.

 

 

You guys might want to make a separate post for this so others can share their experience too.

[Hammerhead]

20 hours ago, Goldentaco said:

TwinAir makes a Prefilter kit that replaces the top plate of the air box and adds a prefilter.

 

J 

This unit. Pricey bugger, but puts a nice flowing lid on that otherwise open bucket created by snorkel delete

[MikeCMP]

They 2 wheel dyno mentioned a cover with a water sock, does anyone know of such a thing for the Tenere 700? I admit to never having heard of it before but can imagine what it is

 

Mike

Edited March 1, 2021 by MikeCMP
Autocorrect

[dashredder]

This twin air filter looks interesting.  Not cheap, but may work for what I need.  Thank you for posting the idea!!!!!

 

@2 Wheel DynoWorks do you know of another solution to adding a pre-filter on the Tenere?  I'd like to keep this as inexpensive as possible.  I can grab an UNI pre-filter for a few bucks and zip tie it to the snorkel now, but we'll need to remove that snorkel with the tune.  

 

Looking to make this one work and I have zero experience with my Tenere off highway yet to offer any trial / error / etc to help out.   

 

Anyone have thoughts on a dusty / sandy solution to having the tune in the bike?  

 

Here's a $90 option with foam:  

 

 

Will the touratech foam filter solution work with the tune?  I could make that work too. 

 

@2 Wheel DynoWorks , basically, will removing the paper filter and replacing it with one or two foam filters with the Touratech solution or the TwinAir solution work with the tune?    I need this to work for two weeks at a time OFF HIGHWAY in the sand, dust, and dirt.  

 

 

[dashredder]

@2 Wheel DynoWorks Take a look at these pics of the kit mounted on a T7 airbox:  https://ruggedroads.co.uk/Unifilter-Pre-Oiled-Foam-Air-Filter-Tenere-700

 

Are we on to something that works with the general tune or will this need to be accounted for vs. paper filter with the snorkel removed when we have an ECU flashed?

[dashredder]

Looks like the Twin Air is simply a pre-filter that goes over the paper filter.    From the website:  https://www.twinair.com/news-item.php?itemdate=200825

 

 

Twin Air developed a new Foam Air Filter solution for the Yamaha Ténéré 700. The Twin Air Filter Kit is used as a pre-filter on top of the OEM paper filter as extra protection. The OEM air intake needs to be removed first before installing the Twin Air Filter and aluminum cage.

 

The Touratech / Ruggedroads option may be able to replace the paper filter all together

Edited March 4, 2021 by dashredder

[Cruizin]

Just an fyi but ya could have done all of this in one post 

 

1 hour ago, dashredder said:

This twin air filter looks interesting.  Not cheap, but may work for what I need.  Thank you for posting the idea!!!!!

 

@2 Wheel DynoWorks do you know of another solution to adding a pre-filter on the Tenere?  I'd like to keep this as inexpensive as possible.  I can grab an UNI pre-filter for a few bucks and zip tie it to the snorkel now, but we'll need to remove that snorkel with the tune.  

 

Looking to make this one work and I have zero experience with my Tenere off highway yet to offer any trial / error / etc to help out.   

 

Anyone have thoughts on a dusty / sandy solution to having the tune in the bike?  

 

Here's a $90 option with foam:  

 

 

Will the touratech foam filter solution work with the tune?  I could make that work too. 

 

@2 Wheel DynoWorks , basically, will removing the paper filter and replacing it with one or two foam filters with the Touratech solution or the TwinAir solution work with the tune?    I need this to work for two weeks at a time OFF HIGHWAY in the sand, dust, and dirt.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, dashredder said:

@2 Wheel DynoWorks Take a look at these pics of the kit mounted on a T7 airbox:  https://ruggedroads.co.uk/Unifilter-Pre-Oiled-Foam-Air-Filter-Tenere-700

 

Are we on to something that works with the general tune or will this need to be accounted for vs. paper filter with the snorkel removed when we have an ECU flashed?

 

1 hour ago, dashredder said:

Looks like the Twin Air is simply a pre-filter that goes over the paper filter.    From the website:  https://www.twinair.com/news-item.php?itemdate=200825

 

 

Twin Air developed a new Foam Air Filter solution for the Yamaha Ténéré 700. The Twin Air Filter Kit is used as a pre-filter on top of the OEM paper filter as extra protection. The OEM air intake needs to be removed first before installing the Twin Air Filter and aluminum cage.

 

The Touratech / Ruggedroads option may be able to replace the paper filter all together

 

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

22 hours ago, dashredder said:

@2 Wheel DynoWorks Take a look at these pics of the kit mounted on a T7 airbox:  https://ruggedroads.co.uk/Unifilter-Pre-Oiled-Foam-Air-Filter-Tenere-700

 

Are we on to something that works with the general tune or will this need to be accounted for vs. paper filter with the snorkel removed when we have an ECU flashed?

 

We've seen this setup a few times now, and even with a water sock over the foam filter it did not change AFRs in any significant manner. Again, the paper filter is NOT a restriction to these intakes. The ONLY restriction to the airbox is the snorkel itself, which should always be removed. The foam filters/pre-filters don't pose a restriction either in all of the testing that we've done so far. 

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, 2 Wheel DynoWorks said:

 

We've seen this setup a few times now, and even with a water soak over the foam filter it did not change AFRs in any significant manner. Again, the paper filter is NOT a restriction to these intakes. The ONLY restriction to the airbox is the snorkel itself, which should always be removed. The foam filters/pre-filters don't pose a restriction either in all of the testing that we've done so far. 

Out of interest did you have the opportunity to ecu flash a mt07 with air pods and no airbox? 

There is a vendor out there that sells the Mwr air filter pods and plastic runners for the cp2 and I would be interested in going that route at some point.. Was wondering what benefits there are to be had on that setup.... I'm not using my bike off-road.. Its a supermoto queen. 

Aleks 

[TimeMachine]

@2 Wheel DynoWorks Can you share any graphs of power and AFRs at cruising throttle openings (~20%) with the different filter setups?

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

2 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Out of interest did you have the opportunity to ecu flash a mt07 with air pods and no airbox? 

There is a vendor out there that sells the Mwr air filter pods and plastic runners for the cp2 and I would be interested in going that route at some point.. Was wondering what benefits there are to be had on that setup.... I'm not using my bike off-road.. Its a supermoto queen. 

Aleks 

Many times. It's 1-2hp over the stock airbox with a snorkel delete, whereas the Hordpower intake is 4-5hp over the same setup. For guys that wanted to go above and beyond the stock airbox and snorkel delete, we always recommend the Hordpower intake system on the FZ/MT-07's. To my knowledge, nobody has tried fitting one on a Tenere 700 yet.

 

-2WDW

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

40 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

@2 Wheel DynoWorks Can you share any graphs of power and AFRs at cruising throttle openings (~20%) with the different filter setups?

There's not a real good reason to ever log AFRs at cruising throttle when swapping from one intake to another when you'll see a fueling difference MUCH easier at WOT, so I don't have any graphs of cruising throttle laying around for these bikes with different filter setups.

[mpatch]

47 minutes ago, Cruizin said:

I think what the snorkel is for is keeping water from pooling up in airbox, the way its designed on this bike. dirtbike air boxes are usually different. A wet foam filter does not pose damage to the engine, but the t7 airbox can fill with water, any water pooled up will go straight down into your engine and throw a rod blow engine, grenade pistons.

 

al0t of us actually cross streams and crap, there will be times that we need to put that snorkel back on to reduce chances of water pooling up in the air box and getting in the engine. Also, paper filters are horrible in dirt dusty conditions they clog up and reduce or even eliminate air flow, fast. If your bik/helmet shield  is getting a thick coat of dust on dry dirt, your filter is getting coated just as thick and clogging up.  An oiled foam filter will still breath air, with dust sticking to the oil.  

 

Look at the t7 airbox design, don't throw those snorkels away.

I agree. I trimmed a bit off the bottom of the snorkel and going to leave it alone. Now if foam filters weren’t $90 a piece. 
Will be sending my ecu off next time the weather turns. 

[Hammerhead]

Throttle body intakes are positioned well above & forward of the air box  low point & drain valve. 
    With something like the twin air pre filter or equivalent  in place of the snorkel, I don’t  see this engine inhaling too much water unless you absolutely swamp it with the throttle well open. 
   In which case, it’s unlikely that extra inch or so gained by the snorkel is going to offer much help anyway. 
   Deleted snorkel without anything in it’s  place would be the most risky scenario & even then, water needs to be 2.5 ft deep before you run out of freeboard.
   I’ll be rolling a No Toiled twin air on top of a No Toiled Uni filter with a keen eye on how much water gets past them into the box.  Willing to bet it’s none, unless the bike gets completely drowned. At which point the snorkel won’t save it either.

 

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

12 hours ago, Hammerhead said:

Throttle body intakes are positioned well above & forward of the air box  low point & drain valve. 
    With something like the twin air pre filter or equivalent  in place of the snorkel, I don’t  see this engine inhaling too much water unless you absolutely swamp it with the throttle well open. 
   In which case, it’s unlikely that extra inch or so gained by the snorkel is going to offer much help anyway. 
   Deleted snorkel without anything in it’s  place would be the most risky scenario & even then, water needs to be 2.5 ft deep before you run out of freeboard.
   I’ll be rolling a No Toiled twin air on top of a No Toiled Uni filter with a keen eye on how much water gets past them into the box.  Willing to bet it’s none, unless the bike gets completely drowned. At which point the snorkel won’t save it either.

 

Precisely. The snorkel won't save you if you decide to turn your T7 into a watercraft. The additional performance had by removing this is well worth the virtually non-existent chance of significant water intrusion into the airbox.

[Danedo]

On 10/29/2020 at 3:23 PM, 2 Wheel DynoWorks said:

Once again, I meant to post this quite awhile ago! We've been swamped at the shop all season, and I think we're finally about to have some more free time as the winter rolls in. That should allow me a lot more time to share, and explain more in-depth, the results we've seen on the dyno for these bikes with our custom ECU flash and mapping!

 

 

So what are you looking at here? Well, let's dive in!

 

Run 1 is BONE STOCK. Stock mapping, stock intake WITH the snorkel, stock headers, and the stock muffler with the spark arrestor out to allow for us to get an accurate AFR signal with our sniffer down the pipe. 64.4hp/44.5tq PEAK output at the wheel.

 

Run 35, almost all of the bike is STILL STOCK. The only things we did here were the removal of the snorkel, because no matter what it truly needs to go. I know a lot of guys are worried about water intrusion, and it honestly is NOT as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. We, and our customers, have performed this modification on THOUSANDS (no exaggeration) of FZ/MT-07, XSR700 and Tenere 700 models without a single issue, ever. For those of you worried about water crossings, the stock snorkel only adds about 2 inches of extra height to the intake inlet, so if you're going to be submerging the bike THAT deeply across a body of water on a trail, we HIGHLY recommend removing the stock intake lid and filter and replacing it with a foam filter that allows for a water sock. There is ZERO difference in performance between the snorkel delete and stock intake and all of the foam filter/intake lid designs that we've seen on the dyno. All that matter is that 90 degree bend and rubber protruding into the airbox is no longer there. 65.9hp/46.6tq PEAK output at the wheel with BIG 4hp/4tq increases at the bottom end AND 4hp/2tq at the very top end. Obviously, as with all of our ECU flashing, the throttle response becomes MASSIVELY smoother and stronger throughout the entire RPM/throttle range, but this isn't possible to display on a WOT dyno graph.

 

Run 9, add virtually any muffler to the stock headers with a snorkel delete and you'll only see very modest gains. With our custom mapping, you'll see about a 1hp/0.5tq improvement throughout the entire RPM range and a 1.5hp increase at the VERY top end. The muffler on these bikes truly isn't a big restriction, which we were surprised to see with all of the chambers and baffling in the stock muffler. We have tested quite a few aftermarket mufflers now, and they all truly perform more or less identically to each other. There's some changes to the necessary fuel mapping for each one, but the final output is essentially unchanged. 67.1hp/47.0 PEAK output at the wheel.

 

Run 13, add headers to any quality high muffler with a snorkel delete and our custom mapping! BELOW 9k RPMs, there's very small gains (less than 1hp), but ABOVE 9K RPMs the power curve is maintained MUCH better to the limiter. You also save 12-14lbs, depending on which aftermarket headers you're using. We've tested a few of them, and once again there is virtually no difference in output between the aftermarket headers. 67.7hp/47.1 PEAK output at the wheel with an extra 4hp ABOVE 9k RPMs all the way to the limiter when compared to the stock headers. From bone stock to a full exhaust system, snorkel delete and our custom mapping, there is a massive 10whp improvement at the limiter (10,250 RPMs). 

 

Again, all of this is ONLY showing WOT performance at the wheel. Much of the results that your butt dyno will feel are even more significant than this displays, as the fuel and ignition mapping changes at WOT are actually much less dramatic than the low/mid range and part-throttle changes that we make to all of our custom mapping! 

 

Check out 2wheeldynoworks.com and don't hesitate to reach out to us if you guys have any questions. We're always happy to help!

 

-2WDW

What is your current reprogram turn around? Need a program for snorkel and full exhaust, waiting on exhaust to ship. What do you think about running the mapping with stock exhaust until I get my aftermarket exhaust?

[2 Wheel DynoWorks]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:38 AM, Danedo said:

What is your current reprogram turn around? Need a program for snorkel and full exhaust, waiting on exhaust to ship. What do you think about running the mapping with stock exhaust until I get my aftermarket exhaust?

We always flash and return ship ECUs the very same day that we receive them.

 

We always recommend having the appropriate exhaust system installed on the bike to match the mapping that the ECU was flashed for. 

[Danedo]

On 10/29/2020 at 3:23 PM, 2 Wheel DynoWorks said:

Once again, I meant to post this quite awhile ago! We've been swamped at the shop all season, and I think we're finally about to have some more free time as the winter rolls in. That should allow me a lot more time to share, and explain more in-depth, the results we've seen on the dyno for these bikes with our custom ECU flash and mapping!

 

 

So what are you looking at here? Well, let's dive in!

 

Run 1 is BONE STOCK. Stock mapping, stock intake WITH the snorkel, stock headers, and the stock muffler with the spark arrestor out to allow for us to get an accurate AFR signal with our sniffer down the pipe. 64.4hp/44.5tq PEAK output at the wheel.

 

Run 35, almost all of the bike is STILL STOCK. The only things we did here were the removal of the snorkel, because no matter what it truly needs to go. I know a lot of guys are worried about water intrusion, and it honestly is NOT as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. We, and our customers, have performed this modification on THOUSANDS (no exaggeration) of FZ/MT-07, XSR700 and Tenere 700 models without a single issue, ever. For those of you worried about water crossings, the stock snorkel only adds about 2 inches of extra height to the intake inlet, so if you're going to be submerging the bike THAT deeply across a body of water on a trail, we HIGHLY recommend removing the stock intake lid and filter and replacing it with a foam filter that allows for a water sock. There is ZERO difference in performance between the snorkel delete and stock intake and all of the foam filter/intake lid designs that we've seen on the dyno. All that matter is that 90 degree bend and rubber protruding into the airbox is no longer there. 65.9hp/46.6tq PEAK output at the wheel with BIG 4hp/4tq increases at the bottom end AND 4hp/2tq at the very top end. Obviously, as with all of our ECU flashing, the throttle response becomes MASSIVELY smoother and stronger throughout the entire RPM/throttle range, but this isn't possible to display on a WOT dyno graph.

 

Run 9, add virtually any muffler to the stock headers with a snorkel delete and you'll only see very modest gains. With our custom mapping, you'll see about a 1hp/0.5tq improvement throughout the entire RPM range and a 1.5hp increase at the VERY top end. The muffler on these bikes truly isn't a big restriction, which we were surprised to see with all of the chambers and baffling in the stock muffler. We have tested quite a few aftermarket mufflers now, and they all truly perform more or less identically to each other. There's some changes to the necessary fuel mapping for each one, but the final output is essentially unchanged. 67.1hp/47.0 PEAK output at the wheel.

 

Run 13, add headers to any quality high muffler with a snorkel delete and our custom mapping! BELOW 9k RPMs, there's very small gains (less than 1hp), but ABOVE 9K RPMs the power curve is maintained MUCH better to the limiter. You also save 12-14lbs, depending on which aftermarket headers you're using. We've tested a few of them, and once again there is virtually no difference in output between the aftermarket headers. 67.7hp/47.1 PEAK output at the wheel with an extra 4hp ABOVE 9k RPMs all the way to the limiter when compared to the stock headers. From bone stock to a full exhaust system, snorkel delete and our custom mapping, there is a massive 10whp improvement at the limiter (10,250 RPMs). 

 

Again, all of this is ONLY showing WOT performance at the wheel. Much of the results that your butt dyno will feel are even more significant than this displays, as the fuel and ignition mapping changes at WOT are actually much less dramatic than the low/mid range and part-throttle changes that we make to all of our custom mapping! 

 

Check out 2wheeldynoworks.com and don't hesitate to reach out to us if you guys have any questions. We're always happy to help!

 

-2WDW

@2wdw what’s the latest on ecu programming that deletes the ABS unit completely? I’m wanting to go to a YZ style braking setup.