SuperMoto T7?

[Ktmmitch]

13 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Ah that sounds good to me... I work in engineering and can replicate a ring from mt07 easily.. Laser cut with the bolt pattern from the t7 and number of holes from mt07

 

 

Not as simple as that, the ECU on T7 is looking for the relationship between a 21/18 combination, putting slots for 17/17 combo from MT-07 will not correct it, you need to calculate the ratio from 21/18 and work it into the 17/17 set, we did this for our low wheel kit (19/17) for Africa Twin, we also had to change rear sprocket by 2 teeth less due to the difference in rolling diameter of the 17 rear compared to stock 18", it lowered the revs back to normal, and corrected the speedo reading back to normal

 

CRF1000L H/D LOW Tubeless 19"/17" Wheels-RRP 595

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Ktmmitch

[Aleksandar13]

5 hours ago, Ktmmitch said:

Not as simple as that, the ECU on T7 is looking for the relationship between a 21/18 combination, putting slots for 17/17 combo from MT-07 will not correct it, you need to calculate the ratio from 21/18 and work it into the 17/17 set, we did this for our low wheel kit (19/17) for Africa Twin, we also had to change rear sprocket by 2 teeth less due to the difference in rolling diameter of the 17 rear compared to stock 18", it lowered the revs back to normal, and corrected the speedo reading back to normal

 

CRF1000L H/D LOW Tubeless 19"/17" Wheels-RRP 595

 

Thank you for sharing this with me I really appreciate the effort you are putting to help me out 

 

I have done some research and come to the following : 

 

Abs ring Tenere 700 : 45 slots 

Abs ring Mt 07           : 40 slots 

 

Difference is %11.1 

 

Wheels diameter difference between stock Tenere 700 and SM setup is : 

 

Front : 15.9% 

Back :  7.0%

 

Front to back difference : 8.9%

 

The slot numbers are the same for mt07 front and back as well as for the T7 . 

 

Does this mean that I need to cut a ring that has 8.9% less holes than the stock one on the Tenere 700? 

 

Also the difference between stock tyre  (mt 07 ) and my Supermoto Tyre on the  T7 in diameter is 1%... ( I think this is minor but I am not expert  ) 

 

Would appreciate your comments on the above.. 

 

Thank you,

Aleks 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Aleksandar13

[Noel McCutcheon]

^ Suggest use the tyre circumference differences and not diameter differences.

[hombacher]

I am still watching your project with big interest!

 

Regarding ABS disc I can add the clarification for the front wheel:

 

 

The ABS discs MT vs. Tenere, they are different.

 

The picture shows as well, what I did to increase brake performance. At the end and after different upgrades with better pads etc. I ended up with a set of Brembo floated discs. Due to winter break I did not ride & test, but I'm confident.

I want to add, I did some investigations regarding bigger rotors, such as by Motomaster, but I did not find any 1:1 swap solution. Everything is a bit complicated because of the 'exotic' disc diameter of MT/XSR/Tracer and Tenere. Maybe an old Vmax adapter may help.

Anyhow, these investigations have to be done again, because except the same disc diameter, everything is different with the new Tenere. Even the brake caliper screw pitch is 60 mm instead of Yamaha traditional 100 mm. So there a chances to find a Super Moto adapter for bigger rotors, maybe?

 

 

 

Another idea regarding the ABS signal, speed, etc., what is about swapping the ABS module? If there is no 'tuning company' which can flash the ABS ecu, then go and swap the whole module. Comparing the wiring diagram:

 

 

There are no real differences. between left (Tenere) and right for MT/XSR. If a Tracer module may be the technical better solution, if Yamaha is making differences in regard to frame layout and geometry, I did not think about it. I as well did not compare parts numbers.

Some good pictures of the parts I found on this page for used parts:

 

https://www.boonstraparts.com/de/teile/mke=yamaha/mdl=mt+07+2016+2017+mt07+mt+07+fz+07/prt=abs-modulator

 

You see, an used ABS module is not even expensive.

 

[Aleksandar13]

39 minutes ago, hombacher said:

I am still watching your project with big interest!

 

Regarding ABS disc I can add the clarification for the front wheel:

 

 

The ABS discs MT vs. Tenere, they are different.

 

The picture shows as well, what I did to increase brake performance. At the end and after different upgrades with better pads etc. I ended up with a set of Brembo floated discs. Due to winter break I did not ride & test, but I'm confident.

I want to add, I did some investigations regarding bigger rotors, such as by Motomaster, but I did not find any 1:1 swap solution. Everything is a bit complicated because of the 'exotic' disc diameter of MT/XSR/Tracer and Tenere. Maybe an old Vmax adapter may help.

Anyhow, these investigations have to be done again, because except the same disc diameter, everything is different with the new Tenere. Even the brake caliper screw pitch is 60 mm instead of Yamaha traditional 100 mm. So there a chances to find a Super Moto adapter for bigger rotors, maybe?

 

 

 

Another idea regarding the ABS signal, speed, etc., what is about swapping the ABS module? If there is no 'tuning company' which can flash the ABS ecu, then go and swap the whole module. Comparing the wiring diagram:

 

 

There are no real differences. between left (Tenere) and right for MT/XSR. If a Tracer module may be the technical better solution, if Yamaha is making differences in regard to frame layout and geometry, I did not think about it. I as well did not compare parts numbers.

Some good pictures of the parts I found on this page for used parts:

 

https://www.boonstraparts.com/de/teile/mke=yamaha/mdl=mt+07+2016+2017+mt07+mt+07+fz+07/prt=abs-modulator

 

You see, an used ABS module is not even expensive.

 

Thank you for sharing the photos (are the brembo discs the same size as Original Yamaha t7 ? ) 

 

ABS rings : There is a lot of bikes out there especially KTM adventure ones with 17/17 conversion and they are all using different slots on the rings to make the ABS work and the speedo at the same time. Now if an ABS system with TC and all sorts of lean angle sensors works on 1190 and 1290 adventure bikes with the conversion done I do not see why this should not work for the Yamaha ABS as it should be a more simpler system (no TC and no lean ABS either).. 

That being sad I am cutting 4 different rings today at work ( 41-44 slots ) .

 

I think this should sort the issue with speedo and ABS but we will have to wait and see what happens.

 

Thank you for sharing the diagram ( I presume the ABS module has the same part number , this needs confirming at some point). If the parts are the same they should not need changing. 

 

What I have been discussing at work and do not understand is why the front and back rings are the same ( this is telling me that the difference in wheel diameter is not relevant as the revolution for the front and back are going to be different but slots are the same on both rings ) ... the system must detect a difference that is significant before it takes action.

 

Aleks

 

[hombacher]

3 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Thank you for sharing the photos (are the brembo discs the same size as Original Yamaha t7 ? ) 

[..]

 

 

Correct, these Brembo are MT-07 replacement = XSR700 = Tenere 700.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

[..]

 

What I have been discussing at work and do not understand is why the front and back rings are the same ( this is telling me that the difference in wheel diameter is not relevant as the revolution for the front and back are going to be different but slots are the same on both rings ) ... the system must detect a difference that is significant before it takes action.

 

Aleks

 

 

This is why I recommended the MT-07 or maybe better the Tracer 700 module. With the same amount of slots as you find in MT/Tracer 17" wheels. The module will work like it does in a street bike (my idea).

The only thing, or point which I missed is, you can not switch off the ABS like you can in a Tenere.

 

My understanding so far is: Front and rear wheel sensor will give the signals to ABS ECU. ABS ECU will give the Can Bus signal to ECU and speedometer unit.

 

ABS ECU --> ECU only fail check,

ABS ECU --> Speedometer, speed (incl. the tolerance), mileage (with no tolerance),

 

& ABS ECU --> will operate as a street bike ABS with different parameters for blocking time, release time, tolerance in regards of missing or failed signals, etc.

 

Difference between MT/XST/Tracer <-> Tenere, the "speed" sensor, street = rear wheel, Tenere = front wheel. This said means, that the module itself will be all same same. But the software in the ABS ECU will be different. It may even be different between MT/XSR and Tracer, due to the longer swingarm of the Tracer for example.

But generally you  are right, the ABS of these Yamaha is quiet simple and works a little crude.

[Aleksandar13]

Hi all,

 

Small update in terms of ABS rings :

 

I have been in touch with Ian who makes ABS rings for the KTM community on adventure rider and in the UK as well and he has been very helpful by explaining how the system operates and what I should do.

 

Let's assume the OEM speedo was perfect. In that case you'd only reduce the number of slots by the % you were reducing the circumference of EACH wheel.

So your front will reduce more than the rear as you're reducing size a lot more. Gets a bit more complex when you try to correct speedo error at the same time, you need to add in that factor also.

My guess is that you'll end up with about three slots more on rear than front, that's usual with KTM's that start out with 48 both ends.

 

Have calculated the difference between the wheels and the slots in the rings are going to be : 38/39 slots front ( 38 slots to correct the speedo a bit 39 to stay at the same calibration as now) ... and 42 slots in the rear.

 

He has sold discs for the KTM conversions with great success and thanks to the community of biker people and the internet we might have found the solution for my problem.  

 

I have now laser cut the discs and send to paint and these will go on the bike when the wheels are ready.

 

Aleks 

 

 

[Bad Pritt]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:50 PM, hombacher said:

Front wheel, outside front disc to disc XSR/T7 - 126/116 mm,

between the fork legs, weidth XSR/T7 - 152/160 mm,

axle diameter according parts catalogue front wheel bearings XSR/T7 - ø17/20 mm

 

Rear wheel, outside disc to middle chain - XSR/T7 - 190/201

 

 

Conclusion: having measured this, I see no chance for a quick & dirty easy swap with a set of MT/XSR wheels. The adaption to be made need a little efforts, but are not impossible.

The MT/XSR wheels are very lightweight, that's fine, on the bad site, the rear is for a tire of 180 width, a little fat for a Supermoto in my opinion.

 

BR

hombacher

Very interested in your project!

 

But i like to go the cheaper way, i can make spacers myself and as you said MT07 wheels are cheap to come by, sounds like a very fun project in the future, very curious for your wheels, hope they turn out great!

 

So, using the MT07 wheels will require bearings 40x20x12 or remake (or make new) a MT07 front axle and be ok with the 17mm diameter (which is fine for the street i think).

Also some spacers front and rear and ofcourse the ABS ring, but i think Aleks has a solution for that!

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bad Pritt

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, Bad Pritt said:

Very interested in your project!

 

But i like to go the cheaper way, i can make spacers myself and as you said MT07 wheels are cheap to come by, sounds like a very fun project in the future, very curious for your wheels, hope they turn out great!

 

So, using the MT07 wheels will require bearings 40x20x12 or remake (or make new) a MT07 front axle and be ok with the 17mm diameter (which is fine for the street i think).

Also some spacers front and rear and ofcourse the ABS ring, but i think Aleks has a solution for that!

Yes once someone has made spacer and wheels fitted that should be the easier route to take ... not sure about the looks of cast wheels on the T7... 

 

Once I have proven the ABS rings I could manufacture some if there are people interested... 

 

Tyres tubes and all the fittings have been ordered and the rims will be delivered balanced and ready to install on the bike.

 

One question: Do I need new nuts for the sprocket or re-use the original ones and what colour Locktite to use ?

 

 

[Bad Pritt]

Also curious how the new to make ABS ring will perform because when the speedometer on my T7 says 100 km/h my GPS says 90, so at that speed there is a 10% difference and i think thats to much.......

[JamesF93]

Following with interest aswell! inlcuidng the ABS rings

 

[Bad Pritt]

5 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Yes once someone has made spacer and wheels fitted that should be the easier route to take ... not sure about the looks of cast wheels on the T7... 

 

Once I have proven the ABS rings I could manufacture some if there are people interested... 

 

Tyres tubes and all the fittings have been ordered and the rims will be delivered balanced and ready to install on the bike.

 

One question: Do I need new nuts for the sprocket or re-use the original ones and what colour Locktite to use ?

 

 

When are you expecting the wheels?

[Aleksandar13]

1 minute ago, Bad Pritt said:

When are you expecting the wheels?

 

All being well end of next week , but could slip into the beginning of the other one.

 

[Ktmmitch]

6 hours ago, Bad Pritt said:

Also curious how the new to make ABS ring will perform because when the speedometer on my T7 says 100 km/h my GPS says 90, so at that speed there is a 10% difference and i think thats to much.......

We supply a smaller rear sprocket for our CRF1000 AT low wheel (19/17) kits, this reduces the revs back to near normal due to the smaller diameter (17" against 18" stock) and also corrects the speedo reading, because the speedometer reading comes off a sensor on the output shaft (front sprocket) of the motor.

not sure if T7 uses this type, or some use the ABS ring on the rear wheel

Edited March 18, 2020 by Ktmmitch

[hombacher]

30 minutes ago, Ktmmitch said:

[..] because the speedometer reading comes off a sensor on the output shaft (front sprocket) of the motor.

not sure if T7 uses this type, or some use the ABS ring on the rear wheel

 

Different to a CRF1000AT, the speedo signal of our Tenere 700 comes from the front wheel ABS sensor.

[Aleksandar13]

A slight change in plans as SM-Pro are shutting down I was forced to get hubs back and buy Excel rims which are more expensive but are supposed to be of better quality and more durable.

 

Managed to avoid a bit of drama by bringing the rims and hubs yesterday to a local wheel builder and he is going to do his best for Monday/Tuesday.

 

All fingers crossed now for this to happen.

 

Tyres are in the back of my car waiting so are Michelin tube. Finding a tyre fitter is not easy but managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat and someone private will install them for me. 

 

Pictures to follow ...  

[Aleksandar13]

Took a picture, couldn't resist...

Front tyre just cleaners the sides if the fork guards but I might trim them a bit just to be sure.. 

[Rich TT]

14 minutes ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Took a picture, couldn't resist...

Front tyre just cleaners the sides if the fork guards but I might trim them a bit just to be sure.. 

Excellent. Hope no thieving scum bags try and steal it. But not so easy with no wheels!!!

[Aleksandar13]

1 minute ago, Rich TT said:

Excellent. Hope no thieving scum bags try and steal it. But not so easy with no wheels!!!

I have the car parked over night at the entrance and it is covered usually ...until now no issues and I have been here 4 years   

[Aleksandar13]

On 3/16/2020 at 12:44 PM, hombacher said:

I am still watching your project with big interest!

 

Regarding ABS disc I can add the clarification for the front wheel:

 

 

The ABS discs MT vs. Tenere, they are different.

 

The picture shows as well, what I did to increase brake performance. At the end and after different upgrades with better pads etc. I ended up with a set of Brembo floated discs. Due to winter break I did not ride & test, but I'm confident.

I want to add, I did some investigations regarding bigger rotors, such as by Motomaster, but I did not find any 1:1 swap solution. Everything is a bit complicated because of the 'exotic' disc diameter of MT/XSR/Tracer and Tenere. Maybe an old Vmax adapter may help.

Anyhow, these investigations have to be done again, because except the same disc diameter, everything is different with the new Tenere. Even the brake caliper screw pitch is 60 mm instead of Yamaha traditional 100 mm. So there a chances to find a Super Moto adapter for bigger rotors, maybe?

 

 

 

Another idea regarding the ABS signal, speed, etc., what is about swapping the ABS module? If there is no 'tuning company' which can flash the ABS ecu, then go and swap the whole module. Comparing the wiring diagram:

 

 

There are no real differences. between left (Tenere) and right for MT/XSR. If a Tracer module may be the technical better solution, if Yamaha is making differences in regard to frame layout and geometry, I did not think about it. I as well did not compare parts numbers.

Some good pictures of the parts I found on this page for used parts:

 

https://www.boonstraparts.com/de/teile/mke=yamaha/mdl=mt+07+2016+2017+mt07+mt+07+fz+07/prt=abs-modulator

 

You see, an used ABS module is not even expensive.

 

EBC Brake Caliper Relocation Bracket for the Contour Series Brake Rotor and/or SuperMoto Brake Rotor - BRK007 Dirt Bike Motorcycle | Dennis Kirk

---

Find the EBC Brake Caliper Relocation Bracket for the Contour Series Brake...

 

This caliper relocation bracket from Ebc is designed to work with 60mm distance between fork bolts. 

For people who would like to go one disc only and 320mm setup this might work. 

 

 

[Aleksandar13]

Side stand machined and ready to go on the bike.

 

[Aleksandar13]

Wheels are here ... Finally ready.. 

Tyres are going on the rims tomorrow.. 

I'm off tomorrow and working to get things back on the bike so providing everything works well we should have the SM setup running tomorrow afternoon. 

The wheels look absolutely amazing. 

Well happy with the outcome 

[Rich TT]

3 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Wheels are here ... Finally ready.. 

Tyres are going on the rims tomorrow.. 

I'm off tomorrow and working to get things back on the bike so providing everything works well we should have the SM setup running tomorrow afternoon. 

The wheels look absolutely amazing. 

Well happy with the outcome 

They look awesome. Nearly as excited as you to see them fitted and the test run report*

 

* to the shops for vital supplies

[Bad Pritt]

Same here!

 

Hurry up and install them!!

[Whitey66]

Nice wheels