Talk me into/out of this

[random1781]

I've spent the last week or so obsessing over the T7, and since I prefer unbiased opinions, I thought I'd try to get some thoughts here.

 

Some background first: I've gone from cruisers to a 1200GS to a 1290 currently. They've all suited me well, but over time  things change. We've been living on our bikes for the better part of a year and plan to continue doing that, so I've been more and more aggressive off-road and I care less and less about pavement and going fast on it. The 700 seems like a great fit for serviceability and reliability, but my primary concern is weight. Between myself (with gear), luggage, parts, and passenger, I have about 160kg on the bike. I know numbers don't tell the whole story, but I realized the maximum load per the manufacturers is almost the same between the 1290 and the 700, which got me thinking seriously about this.

 

I've read a lot of great comments on here about how the bike handles with bigger riders, but I situation is slightly different, which I think matters. I'll unfortunately have weight more towards the back of the bike. I know it's hard to say what's aggressive, but I'm expecting a lot of rocky, washboardy, washed out terrain - the more technical the better. I'm curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are on the structural integrity of the bike as well as how that much weight might change the handling off pavement. I would be investing a good amount on suspension- I modified my current suspension and experienced how transformative it is - and I'll be trying to shave OEM weight off also. Any thoughts?

[winddown]

Well the bike is 200kg, and with your 150 that makes 350kg.  That's a lot of weight to be pushing over "rocky, washboardy, washed out terrain - the more technical the better"   But if 100kg of the 150 extra is YOU, then you can just roll the bars forward and spread the weight hey.  As far as the bike goes, I'm sure if the 150 is within the specs then it can handle it, probably a bit more too.  This is a Japanese bike we're talking about, they are super reliable and they get that reputation by not breaking, like some Orange coloured bikes I have encountered.   I haven't pushed mine at all but I have full confidence in it simply because the tens of 1000's of owners worldwide haven't complained about a single factory issue.  Good luck with your choice, and if you get a T7, you won't regret it.  they're a hell of a bike.

[TimeMachine]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-5e1BS71YI

Edited July 12, 2022 by TimeMachine

[Dougie]

Really reliable off road tourer as they’ve all been for decades, feels fantastic to ride, but I wouldn’t touch it to replace a bm for twos up travelling. Others on here may have done but I’d say this is a solo bike. 

[random1781]

6 hours ago, winddown said:

Well the bike is 200kg, and with your 150 that makes 350kg.  That's a lot of weight to be pushing over "rocky, washboardy, washed out terrain - the more technical the better"   But if 100kg of the 150 extra is YOU, then you can just roll the bars forward and spread the weight hey.  As far as the bike goes, I'm sure if the 150 is within the specs then it can handle it, probably a bit more too.  This is a Japanese bike we're talking about, they are super reliable and they get that reputation by not breaking, like some Orange coloured bikes I have encountered.   I haven't pushed mine at all but I have full confidence in it simply because the tens of 1000's of owners worldwide haven't complained about a single factory issue.  Good luck with your choice, and if you get a T7, you won't regret it.  they're a hell of a bike.

Of the 160kg...

• 90 - me
• 35 - luggage (plates, racks, etc.)
• 25 - passenger
• 10 - net weight for different parts

Thanks @TimeMachine that video was perfect - very similar to an average day of riding for us.

 

The short story is that my orange bike has an issue that so far has been unsolvable. I'd always written off smaller bikes as not being able to handle the weight of everything, but I think I'm starting to realize that's not the case.

 

3 hours ago, Dougie said:

Really reliable off road tourer as they’ve all been for decades, feels fantastic to ride, but I wouldn’t touch it to replace a bm for twos up travelling. Others on here may have done but I’d say this is a solo bike. 

 

It's not exactly traditional 2-up, so I have a little more flexibility!

 

[Dougie]

2 hours ago, random1781 said:

Of the 160kg...

• 90 - me
• 35 - luggage (plates, racks, etc.)
• 25 - passenger
• 10 - net weight for different parts

Thanks @TimeMachine that video was perfect - very similar to an average day of riding for us.

 

The short story is that my orange bike has an issue that so far has been unsolvable. I'd always written off smaller bikes as not being able to handle the weight of everything, but I think I'm starting to realize that's not the case.

 

 

It's not exactly traditional 2-up, so I have a little more flexibility!

 

I did just read the 25kg and double take. 
I reckon you’ll be ok.

[winddown]

Did you get that dog from KTM?

[random1781]

1 hour ago, Dougie said:

I did just read the 25kg and double take. 
I reckon you’ll be ok.

 

You say that, but the slightly longer story is that I'm one subframe down:

 

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately?) I think this was the result of the bolt on the top right side coming loose and I didn't notice, so the frame wasn't rigid. I hit something relatively small on a nicely paved road and it bent this. I replaced it but something is still off with my steering, and I'm afraid the main frame might be bent as well, so we're heading back to the US to get everything sorted.

 

A lot will depend on insurance/warranty/dealer stuff. I already know I want a smaller and more ubiquitous bike/manufacturer, but the strength of the frame still occupies my thoughts.

[winddown]

11 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-5e1BS71YI

 

That hill climb on the loose stuff at 23:30, was the major reason the back end was sliding around because of the factory tire perhaps?  He mentioned the tire.  Would an aggressive knobby have plowed through a lot easier?

[random1781]

13 minutes ago, winddown said:

Did you get that dog from KTM?

He's part German shepherd, so obviously he came from the OTHER guys

 

 

He was actually pissed that his lounging space got cut in half when I switched over, but he tolerated it because it KTM is at least Austrian. Convincing him to move to the T7 is going to be the challenging part.

 

4 minutes ago, winddown said:

 

That hill climb on the loose stuff at 23:30, was the major reason the back end was sliding around because of the factory tire perhaps?  He mentioned the tire.  Would an aggressive knobby have plowed through a lot easier?

From my experience even with a fully loaded and heavier bike, the knobbies still make a massive difference.

[winddown]

7 minutes ago, random1781 said:

 

You say that, but the slightly longer story is that I'm one subframe down:

 

 

 

Well you shouldn't have any worries with KTM assistance.  I was chatting with a sales bloke in one of their dealerships here and I questioned him about ktm reliability.  He went into a big spiel about how reliability wasn't an issue anymore, that ktm offered amazing rider support and any problem they would sort out in short order.  He said all the euro bikes were like that now.  Basically slapped together and debugged /patched up on the trail.  I don't know if he actually believed that pitch himself but I certainly didn't.  If that was the case with ALL new bikes I'd go second hand.

[random1781]

26 minutes ago, winddown said:

 

Well you shouldn't have any worries with KTM assistance.  I was chatting with a sales bloke in one of their dealerships here and I questioned him about ktm reliability.  He went into a big spiel about how reliability wasn't an issue anymore, that ktm offered amazing rider support and any problem they would sort out in short order.  He said all the euro bikes were like that now.  Basically slapped together and debugged /patched up on the trail.  I don't know if he actually believed that pitch himself but I certainly didn't.  If that was the case with ALL new bikes I'd go second hand.

I actually agree with reliability in general. I put about 30k miles on this one in two years, and this is the only problem I've had. It's a catastrophic problem, but at least this seems like a one-off.

 

But yeah, BMW does actually have fantastic rider support...as long as you're within warranty and, you know, near BMW. But you're on your own with KTM. Even the services that you pay for are notorious for being awful. A dealership I went to failed to latch my airbox shut. At least all of these stereotypes are true, so I knew exactly what I was getting into. I'll consider this the "rider support" test, and if they throw me a bone, I'll take it, because it's cheaper. But I'm hoping I get a check instead...

[Bckcntrybandit]

Alright, my first post may raise some eye brows being that it is mostly negative BUT... I was on the fence in a big way as well...you also stated that you wanted unbiased opinions... And you mentioned aggressive offroad. 

 

Some background just so you get an honest idea of what I'm about to say.

 

I actually guide in the local backcountry of northern BC.  Snowmobiles in the winter and adventure bikes/Sxs in summer. Lucky enough to hit trails right off the end of the street I reside on.  I have 2200kms on my 21 and I picked it up late last year. Not one single road trip on it. The farthest I've ventured on pavement was 150kms, once.  I ride predominantly offroad.  All kinds.  Gravel, trail, mud, single track, creeks, you name it. I am an AVERAGE rider in terms of skillset. 

 

I'm coming off a 790advr and prior to that, a 1290r and a 1090r.  Before that an African twin DCT.  For adventure bikes. 300's a few drz 400's, two 690 one in SM and a 500excf fully sm. 

 

The t7 is by far and away, the worst bike I've ever owned when it comes to offroad riding. 

 

It's actually not even good at any of it. I've almost been killed twice by its absolutely horrendous suspension.  The unpredictable twitch and the tank slapping speed wobbles in high speed bumps on gravel are severe. It desperately needs a damper and revalving of suspension. Twice I've gone into a speed wobble at well over 100kmr with once going right into the trees in the ditch. 

I run e09 mitas all around and have never ridden it with stock tires. 

Jumping out is down right scary as well. 

Power is mediocre. You have to shift at 9000rpm plus to have fun. 

I can't read the display and the bouncing lights are annoying as well. 

I regret my purchase, very much so.  Why did I buy? 

 

I was in a very serious accident on my 790r.  I hit a moose at all over 100kmr and wrote off the bike. I faired well, considering but will never be the same, physically. My insurance company wasn't going to replace it and gave it a much lower value. With all the adds etc, I lost a pile of money. I also went through a divorce that same year and switched careers.  I no longer have disposable income. I had a friend who runs a Yamaha dealer and the reviews from the shop from the first t7 they had were good. I love yammi as well. 

 

Now, in saying all of this.... 

 

It's decent on road. It's reliable (no issues and I'm hard on it. It has been laid down many a time) 

It's motor is buttery, especially when you have it singing. If sticking to gravel roads, it's ok. 

 

But it pales in every category besides price and reliability to that of the 790/890r.  

 

But even the price point is debatable....I'm having to do a complete suspension swap out, changing the gearing, put the high fender on, air box mod and mapping, this winter and it'll still be down on power, suspension subpar, and I'll be into it for the same price as the 890r.

 

I know this post won't be well received on a tenere site but it's the honest real goods from an owner who has ridden bike nearly all his life. 

 

For most owners that do just a mixture of on/ offroad, thinking price point, and keep it tame for the most part... It's a good bike. 

 

You can call my bluffs on my youtube page and Instagram account.    "backcountrybandit" on YouTube

@backcountrybanditinc on Instagram. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Bckcntrybandit
Spelling

[winddown]

You don't think your impressions of the T7  might have more to do with that big accident you had?  A lot of riders lose their nerve after that and even simple trails can seem daunting.  There is no shame in admitting you've lost your edge.

 

14:42 the guy starts out on some jeep trail

 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by winddown

[Bckcntrybandit]

38 minutes ago, winddown said:

You don't think your impressions of the T7  might have more to do with that big accident you had?  A lot of riders lose their nerve after that and even simple trails can seem daunting.  There is no shame in admitting you've lost your edge.

 

14:42 the guy starts out on some jeep trail

 

 

I kinda don't have that process, filter. I spent a lot of time racing as well.  A couple major wrecks including a broken back in 12.  I'm definitely getting old as fawk and losing steam there lol

[TimeMachine]

8 hours ago, Bckcntrybandit said:

Alright, my first post may raise some eye brows being that it is mostly negative BUT... I was on the fence in a big way as well...you also stated that you wanted unbiased opinions... And you mentioned aggressive offroad. 

 

Some background just so you get an honest idea of what I'm about to say.

 

I actually guide in the local backcountry of northern BC.  Snowmobiles in the winter and adventure bikes/Sxs in summer. Lucky enough to hit trails right off the end of the street I reside on.  I have 2200kms on my 21 and I picked it up late last year. Not one single road trip on it. The farthest I've ventured on pavement was 150kms, once.  I ride predominantly offroad.  All kinds.  Gravel, trail, mud, single track, creeks, you name it. I am an AVERAGE rider in terms of skillset. 

 

I'm coming off a 790advr and prior to that, a 1290r and a 1090r.  Before that an African twin DCT.  For adventure bikes. 300's a few drz 400's, two 690 one in SM and a 500excf fully sm. 

 

The t7 is by far and away, the worst bike I've ever owned when it comes to offroad riding. 

 

It's actually not even good at any of it. I've almost been killed twice by its absolutely horrendous suspension.  The unpredictable twitch and the tank slapping speed wobbles in high speed bumps on gravel are severe. It desperately needs a damper and revalving of suspension. Twice I've gone into a speed wobble at well over 100kmr with once going right into the trees in the ditch. 

I run e09 mitas all around and have never ridden it with stock tires. 

Jumping out is down right scary as well. 

Power is mediocre. You have to shift at 9000rpm plus to have fun. 

I can't read the display and the bouncing lights are annoying as well. 

I regret my purchase, very much so.  Why did I buy? 

 

I was in a very serious accident on my 790r.  I hit a moose at all over 100kmr and wrote off the bike. I faired well, considering but will never be the same, physically. My insurance company wasn't going to replace it and gave it a much lower value. With all the adds etc, I lost a pile of money. I also went through a divorce that same year and switched careers.  I no longer have disposable income. I had a friend who runs a Yamaha dealer and the reviews from the shop from the first t7 they had were good. I love yammi as well. 

 

Now, in saying all of this.... 

 

It's decent on road. It's reliable (no issues and I'm hard on it. It has been laid down many a time) 

It's motor is buttery, especially when you have it singing. If sticking to gravel roads, it's ok. 

 

But it pales in every category besides price and reliability to that of the 790/890r.  

 

But even the price point is debatable....I'm having to do a complete suspension swap out, changing the gearing, put the high fender on, air box mod and mapping, this winter and it'll still be down on power, suspension subpar, and I'll be into it for the same price as the 890r.

 

I know this post won't be well received on a tenere site but it's the honest real goods from an owner who has ridden bike nearly all his life. 

 

For most owners that do just a mixture of on/ offroad, thinking price point, and keep it tame for the most part... It's a good bike. 

 

You can call my bluffs on my youtube page and Instagram account.    "backcountrybandit" on YouTube

@backcountrybanditinc on Instagram. 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree with you more on your assessment of the T7. You might have had some issues, and some are shared with other riders, but the emphasis you place on the issues is skewed out of all reality. I think it needs some balance brought to the discussion, but really, I dont know where to start.

Let's try your comment about the power needing to use more than 9000 rpm. This bike has tons of torque. It will spin the wheels at almost any speed up to and over 140kph on the dirt. It pulls from under 2000 revs without complaint and makes most of its tractive power around 5-7000. Surely you are not talking about the T7?

Your comment on the suspension nearly killing you twice. That is insane. Did you tune it to the way you intend to ride? Heavier and more fork oil, heavier springs, adjust the clickers if you plan to ride hard? You say it needs a revalve. Did you try that to make it suit your riding, before the complete suspension swap?

Speed wobbles? Clearly you have something setup wrong. What tire pressures, did you try softening the rear suspension to get some squat or lower the forks in the triple clamps to slow up the steering? Did you try different tires?

You say it only wins on price and reliability and pales in every category. How about a nicer less rattly engine and runs smoothly at low speed, finds traction in the dirt better than most bikes, is lighter than the 790+ KTMs (actual weight on tires so can track better in sand and loose ground). Way more room for a larger rider than even the 1290/1090. Much easier to service with a simple spin on oil filter and the filler hole is actually accessible. You can get parts for it. With some suspension work (and not even that much) it handles fabulous.

[edit] oh and some otehr things come to mind. The T7 has perfect gear ratios, and beautiful note especially with an after market exhaust, and looks awesome. There are plenty of after market options, and comes a low guard so you dont get shet all over you on a wet or muddy road.

You complain about the wobbly screen and headlight. Granted. I fixed it completely for about $1 worth of rubber pad.

Your comments remind me of so many reviewers that try to review a bike basically the way it is handed to them. Adventure bikes like so many things in this world need to be adjusted to suit you and your purpose.

I really don't want to criticise people that have an opinion and share it. Bravo to you for that. But your opinion raised here is really a long way from the truth, and might say more about you than the bike.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by TimeMachine

[Hibobb]

9 hours ago, Bckcntrybandit said:

the worst bike I've ever owned when it comes to offroad riding

I kind'a bought mine for mostly on road stuff and just screwing around on. It works pretty good for me.

Everyone has opinions, as do I... 450 pound bikes for hard offroading is a dumb idea. (Cory gets a pass on this one, he is my hero!)

[Dougie]

@Bckcntrybandit is perfectly entitled to the opinion no worries, and is without doubt a better off road rider than me. And although pol does some amazing stuff on them, I don’t think any XT has been designed for throwing around on the Weston beach race. They’ve always been for putting your kit on and buggering off across 3rd world countries with crap roads, dirt tracks and open spaces, with reliable easy to fix machines. They invented adventure riding. ( not starting a who invented adventure bikes post) the TT was the dirt toy, and that was probably still too big in reality. A WR it isn’t. Hats off to anyone who is able to treat it like one. Much respect. 

[Bckcntrybandit]

5 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

I couldn't disagree with you more on your assessment of the T7. You might have had some issues, and some are shared with other riders, but the emphasis you place on the issues is skewed out of all reality. I think it needs some balance brought to the discussion, but really, I dont know where to start. 

Thank you for admitting that others have shared some of the same issues.  Makes me feel less insane.

Let's try your comment about the power needing to use more than 9000 rpm.   I didn't say this.  You missed the period I put in.  9000rpm makes the bike fun.  I do believe that is the peak HP (9000) for the t7....I'm not one of those techy guys so I could be wrong.  Fun, alluding to  the sound as well....i love the sound of the motor at 9000+.  Sweet music.

This bike has tons of torque. It will spin the wheels at almost any speed up to and over 140kph on the dirt. It pulls from under 2000 revs without complaint and makes most of its tractive power around 5-7000. Surely you are not talking about the T7?  Spinning the wheels, in my opinion, doesn't indicate torque.  T7 has less power, less torque....it's actually a significant difference between the two, for me.  Question, have you owned a 790r or ridden one at any length?  I can get the front tire up far quicker on the 790 vs the t7.  It's a wheelie fun bike.

Your comment on the suspension nearly killing you twice. That is insane. Did you tune it to the way you intend to ride? Heavier and more fork oil, heavier springs, adjust the clickers if you plan to ride hard? You say it needs a revalve. Did you try that to make it suit your riding, before the complete suspension swap?  Insinuating my lack of knowledge and that I'm insane? 

I have yet to hear a single owner (personally) rave about the suspension.  In fact, nearly all have stated that the suspension is lacking when it comes to aggressive off road riding.  I have bounced off the trail more times than any other bike I've owned.  It's the most unpredictable bike, I've ever ridden.  I bottom the suspension out every ride, in the stiffest of settings.  The suspension on the T7 is subpar in aggressive off road riding, in my opinion, especially compared to the 790r.  The bike is getting a full suspension swap THIS winter.  It is in stock format with only adjustments made, currently.

Speed wobbles? Clearly you have something setup wrong. What tire pressures, did you try softening the rear suspension to get some squat or lower the forks in the triple clamps to slow up the steering? Did you try different tires?  Spent many an hour trying to figure it all out.  Been running the Mitas tires for several years.  I just can't figure it out within the stock equipment so off it goes to RMR this winter to get dialed.  It is admittedly beyond my skill set.  Heck, I even bent the rim last ride for I was riding with so little tire pressure going to extremes trying to figure out the issues.  Please take into account terrain.  I have very little experience in sand or soft terrain.  I ride in the mountains.  Big boulders, lots of water crossings, steep terrain, shale, hard dirt, roots.  Again, I'm an average rider.  Maybe I don't have your skills.

You say it only wins on price and reliability and pales in every category.  Reliability is a blanket statement and covers many items such as serviceability, costs, etc.  

How about a nicer less rattly engine and runs smoothly at low speed, finds traction in the dirt better than most bikes, is lighter than the 790+ KTMs (actual weight on tires so can track better in sand and loose ground).   The weight difference between the two bikes is very little especially when taking in account the added fuel of 790r), it's the lower slung weight I much prefer.  I find the T7 to be really top heavy.  Especially in the tight rocky boulders, i get bounced about far more on it.  I also drop my bikes plenty.  I mean, plenty.  Picking up the two...big difference.

Way more room for a larger rider than even the 1290/1090. Much easier to service with a simple spin on oil filter and the filler hole is actually accessible. You can get parts for it. With some suspension work (and not even that much) it handles fabulous.  Agree totally on the room, service, and parts.  I actually prefer the ergos on the t7 but with a small riser on my 790r, very comparable.

[edit] oh and some otehr things come to mind. The T7 has perfect gear ratios, and beautiful note especially with an after market exhaust, and looks awesome. There are plenty of after market options, and comes a low guard so you dont get shet all over you on a wet or muddy road.   Agreed, much more available.

You complain about the wobbly screen and headlight. Granted. I fixed it completely for about $1 worth of rubber pad.  Can you share this tip?  This drives me nuts at night.

Your comments remind me of so many reviewers that try to review a bike basically the way it is handed to them. Adventure bikes like so many things in this world need to be adjusted to suit you and your purpose.  Not reviewing how it was given to me, but reviewed stock vs stock.  I set up my bikes the way I ride them.

I really don't want to criticise people that have an opinion and share it. Bravo to you for that. But your opinion raised here is really a long way from the truth, and might say more about you than the bike.  You give praise on my sharing of opinion then use the word "but" which rescinds your compliment.  Then proceed to attack my integrity based on my opinion and experience on a motorcycle.   The only reason I'm replying to your post is due to the fact that you insinuate many personal attributes of me. 

Opinions are just that, opinions.  I'm not going to get in a pissing match on the internet and I actually respect your opinion.  I'm of the mindset of...if we all shared the same views, what a boring world this would be.  I suggest not attacking ones core values and stick to making your rebuttals, on the topic at hand. 

Keep the personal aspect out of it. 

I believe if you were to meet and ride with myself, we'd have a heck of a lot of fun.  I'm also a super positive fella and my opinion on a motorcycle does not reflect my person.  You do make valid points and have shown that I should be more clear. 

 

In the end, I HIGLY suggest to the OP to ride both bikes and ride them in the areas that you will ride.  Join fb groups that have ride nights, straddle the pricks, and form your own opinion.  Not only will this help with your decision but you get to have fun doing it as opposed to a couple blokes battling out on what's better....for you.

The KTM's have short comings too.  Many.  I'm just straight up when it comes to my purchases.  I'm not a brand loyal guy.

 

5 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

 

 

 

I responded on your reply in red, above.

 

My response was to the OP.  It is my opinion on how the t7 is STOCK vs other bikes STOCK.  For that is how you purchase them.  The only thing I change immediately, with every bike purchase, is the tires. 

Stock meaning...tuning, bar placement, suspension adjustments, that are made without any modifications or purchases.  I should've been more clear on this.

Comparing stock to stock, the t7, in MY opinion pales in every category to that of the 790/890advr.      

Edited July 13, 2022 by Bckcntrybandit
spelling

[Bckcntrybandit]

4 hours ago, Hibobb said:

I kind'a bought mine for mostly on road stuff and just screwing around on. It works pretty good for me.

Everyone has opinions, as do I... 450 pound bikes for hard offroading is a dumb idea. (Cory gets a pass on this one, he is my hero!)

Not that I disagree with you...haha. 

 

Hard off-roading is in the eye of the beholder.  I ride with many skillsets with most being far more confident on paper, filling out their waivers, than on the terrain.  Many a time I'm having to adjust the riding areas to suit ones capabilities.  Not always simplifying it....love it when I get the modest riders that tear it up and I can't keep up!  Actually much prefer this!  Hence why I consider myself an average rider.  I love it and learn every ride.  So to say it's a dumb idea to offroad a bike designed for adventure....a bit harsh?  I mean, everyone's sense of adventure is completely different as well.  Cheers

[random1781]

@Bckcntrybandit I appreciate the perspective, and it all makes perfect sense.  My partner started off this trip on a 790, and after riding it myself, I actually had some regret for not going that route instead of the 1290. It's an absolutely amazing performance bike: powerful, manageable, low center of gravity, solid stock suspension, and just fun. It was fun until the clutch left us stranded out for a couple snowy days, and then again later on in the California desert - both times without beer.

 

Here's a picture of the 790's (former) clutch plate on top compared to a DR650's on the bottom, or the 105hp bike's clutch vs the 43hp bike's clutch.

 

 

Early failures are a known issue and there have already been half a dozen part supersessions for it, but there will never be an enhancement pill to make it bigger - it's an unchangeable characteristic of the bike.

 

I say all of this because, for us, this was a deal breaker. If we had a garage to go home to along with some downtime and cash, she'd still have the 790, but because we're in Mexico and just want to get further out, she's now on a 690 and loves it.

 

I've come to realize a few things:

• Reliability is most important
• Regardless of what bike I ever get, I'll be significantly modifying it
• It's easier to add performance than it is to add reliability
• The bike is my home, but it doesn't need to be a house

When you start looking at things like this, it's pretty easy to figure out which bike would be the most appropriate. Yeah, I know I'll probably be spending another $5-6k on top of the bike to outfit it for my use-case - but that's no different from my 1290. The 1290 has a bunch of 'known issues': abysmal air and fuel filters, early fuel pump failures, side stand bolted to the engine case, etc. and I've already spent a lot on top of the bike to get it where it needs to be. A T7 gone wild with Ohlins, protection, weight loss, and whatever else I want is expensive, but it's still less than just the MSRP of a 1290.

 

4 hours ago, Hibobb said:

I kind'a bought mine for mostly on road stuff and just screwing around on. It works pretty good for me.

Everyone has opinions, as do I... 450 pound bikes for hard offroading is a dumb idea. (Cory gets a pass on this one, he is my hero!)

I've done everything backwards,my first off road experience and everything since has been on these massive bikes, so 450 would be sooooo much nicer than 530! I think of it in terms of riding the 1290 now without luggage, which is a night and day difference. If I could get that for my daily experience and even less when I ditch the luggage, I'd be pretty stoked.

[random1781]

3 minutes ago, Bckcntrybandit said:

Not that I disagree with you...haha. 

 

Hard off-roading is in the eye of the beholder.  I ride with many skillsets with most being far more confident on paper, filling out their waivers, than on the terrain.  Many a time I'm having to adjust the riding areas to suit ones capabilities.  Not always simplifying it....love it when I get the modest riders that tear it up and I can't keep up!  Actually much prefer this!  Hence why I consider myself an average rider.  I love it and learn every ride.  So to say it's a dumb idea to offroad a bike designed for adventure....a bit harsh?  I mean, everyone's sense of adventure is completely different as well.  Cheers

The trickiest part about figuring all of this out is just getting on the same page with other people's definitions and experiences! I do tend to be the dumb person that takes my bike places it shouldn't be because I want to and it's the bike I have. I've managed to get through everything so far, but some times are much more painful than others.

 

17 minutes ago, Bckcntrybandit said:

 

 

 

My response was to the OP.  It is my opinion on how the t7 is STOCK vs other bikes STOCK.  For that is how you purchase them.  The only thing I change immediately, with every bike purchase, is the tires. 

Stock meaning...tuning, bar placement, suspension adjustments, that are made without any modifications or purchases.  I should've been more clear on this.

Comparing stock to stock, the t7, in MY opinion pales in every category to that of the 790/890advr.      

Have you changed anything up on your T7?

[Bckcntrybandit]

5 minutes ago, random1781 said:

@Bckcntrybandit I appreciate the perspective, and it all makes perfect sense.  My partner started off this trip on a 790, and after riding it myself, I actually had some regret for not going that route instead of the 1290. It's an absolutely amazing performance bike: powerful, manageable, low center of gravity, solid stock suspension, and just fun. It was fun until the clutch left us stranded out for a couple snowy days, and then again later on in the California desert - both times without beer.

 

Here's a picture of the 790's (former) clutch plate on top compared to a DR650's on the bottom, or the 105hp bike's clutch vs the 43hp bike's clutch.

 

 

Early failures are a known issue and there have already been half a dozen part supersessions for it, but there will never be an enhancement pill to make it bigger - it's an unchangeable characteristic of the bike.

 

I say all of this because, for us, this was a deal breaker. If we had a garage to go home to along with some downtime and cash, she'd still have the 790, but because we're in Mexico and just want to get further out, she's now on a 690 and loves it.

 

I've come to realize a few things:

• Reliability is most important
• Regardless of what bike I ever get, I'll be significantly modifying it
• It's easier to add performance than it is to add reliability
• The bike is my home, but it doesn't need to be a house

When you start looking at things like this, it's pretty easy to figure out which bike would be the most appropriate. Yeah, I know I'll probably be spending another $5-6k on top of the bike to outfit it for my use-case - but that's no different from my 1290. The 1290 has a bunch of 'known issues': abysmal air and fuel filters, early fuel pump failures, side stand bolted to the engine case, etc. and I've already spent a lot on top of the bike to get it where it needs to be. A T7 gone wild with Ohlins, protection, weight loss, and whatever else I want is expensive, but it's still less than just the MSRP of a 1290.

 

I've done everything backwards,my first off road experience and everything since has been on these massive bikes, so 450 would be sooooo much nicer than 530! I think of it in terms of riding the 1290 now without luggage, which is a night and day difference. If I could get that for my daily experience and even less when I ditch the luggage, I'd be pretty stoked.

You mean, I'm not insane?!  Haha.

 

You make a really good point on reliability.  Agree totally.  I didn't have any issues with my 790 (albeit it only had 1200km's on it before wrecking it).  My 1290r had many issues.

 

I alluded to the reliability being one of the reasons why I selected the t7.  I no longer have disposable income.  If I was in the situation, financially, as I was in the past, I would have the 890.

 

Here's another fun fact....I'm looking at buying 3 more bikes for rentals....they'll all be t7's.  I can't stand the bike for ME.  But man is it cheap, there's parts, it's reliable, it makes good business sense.  How's that for a twist....bwahahhahaha

[Bckcntrybandit]

7 minutes ago, random1781 said:

The trickiest part about figuring all of this out is just getting on the same page with other people's definitions and experiences! I do tend to be the dumb person that takes my bike places it shouldn't be because I want to and it's the bike I have. I've managed to get through everything so far, but some times are much more painful than others.

 

Have you changed anything up on your T7?

Exactly, I already feel that I've been arrogant with the "I's".  Hate text for that.  Your sense of adventure is surely different than the person next to you.

Exact opposite of dumb, dude.  That is how you learn and get better.  I'd love to go on an adventure with ya.  We'd laugh and laugh and laugh.....

[TimeMachine]

5 hours ago, Bckcntrybandit said:

 

 

 

I responded on your reply in red, above.

 

My response was to the OP.  It is my opinion on how the t7 is STOCK vs other bikes STOCK.  For that is how you purchase them.  The only thing I change immediately, with every bike purchase, is the tires. 

Stock meaning...tuning, bar placement, suspension adjustments, that are made without any modifications or purchases.  I should've been more clear on this.

Comparing stock to stock, the t7, in MY opinion pales in every category to that of the 790/890advr.      

Thanks for your response, which frames your opinion better I think. You ride harder than most and you are making a comparison between the T7 and other bikes for off road riding, stock for stock. On that I agree to a large extent, straight out of the box the suspension is too soft for hard riding. Even moderate riding for some of us. Just about every post on the internet will tell you the same thing. But that is so easily solved, I still have face palm moments when people insist on making these stock comparisons when we know it needs to be setup to your weight. I would go further and criticise Yamaha for selling the bike like that, too soft for even average weight riders. What I found insane is that you chose to ride it harder than its was configured for and potential risk getting hurt. Hence my my barrage of "why didn't you fix it..." questions.

Just for reference, I have ridden the 1090 offroad but not the 790. I am too big (at nearly 6' 4" and 240lbs) for it to get comfortable (the T7 has much more room and better triangle, even after mods). I would be significantly faster off-road on my T7 than on the 1090 with both setup similarly to suit me. I can lift my T7 off the ground one wheel at a time, so is much easier for self recovery out of tricky spots than heavier bikes. I also find the T7's softer delivery (I suspect due to heavier flywheel) easier to manage and find grip, and (my point about spinning wheels at any speed) it has enough power and grip to push to maximum possible on the dirt and really get going fast. I would be very interested to see how each adventure bike compares in an off-road drag race in a variety of dirt conditions. Some bikes with fast revving engines lose traction readily and feel fast. The T7 is deceptive.

The cheap fix for the shaking instrument cluster is here, with a few solutions provided -