Bleutooth ODB and Carpe Iter

[Ray Ride4life]

Edit:
Please read the intention in the text, this topic is about replacing the OEM display for a Carpe Iter tablet in its whole. Not for monitoring codes like most people use the ODB scanner for. Keep it on topic please with possible problems and solutions that comes with removing the OEM dash. That's the goal of this topic, to find out if it is possible without major drawbacks.

Didn't knew what section was best but just in case it ends up in another change of my already build bike i chose this section.
In the CANbus question topic by @Kjellbrell this seed was planted in my brain.
The OBDLINK LX Bluetooth OBD II Scanner can display everything on your dash onto your phone or whatever Android device (and probably Apple but i use Android and so does Carpe Iter).
I love the idea of the Carpe Iter as i got interested in rally's. I want to do one or 2 on an adventure base with GPS but when i like it a step up to Roadbook rally's is not unthinkable (only time and money can get in the way) but for now i don't want to invest in that... yet.
Besides the price of the Carpe Iter or aven the lot cheaper roadbook setups the massive add ons put me down but with this scanner you just can use a Carpe Iter and leave the dash away, you don't need to put it back on the handlebar or make huge setups for the CI/roadbook above the display.
Only problem i encounter is the odometer and that's quite a big downside but maybe to be overcome by dismantling the display and build a small one just to show that.
What do you guys think of that idea? Maybe if more people see this as a great idea a company is willing to make the odo adapter with a small display.

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Ray Ride4life

[random1781]

I'm personally interested in this also, so let's look at what's on the T7 dash and what is easily available via OBD requests. I'll try to keep this updated.

 

Green = Available by OBD standard request

Purple = Confirmed available by custom request

Orange = Probably available by custom request

Blue = Interpreted from standard data

Red = Not available

Black = Unknown

• Hard components
  • Buttons
    • Top set
    • Bottom set
    • ABS
  • Lights
    • Turn signal left
    • ABS warning
    • Engine warning
    • Oil pressure warning - the pressure switch is directly connected to the light
    • Coolant temperature warning
    • Turn signal right
    • Neutral
    • High beam
    • ABS off
• Digital components
  • Speed
  • Tach
  • Gear - the gear sensor/switch is directly connected to the display via 7 wires (one for each gear + neutral)
  • ECO
  • OFF-ROAD
  • Fuel level - directly connected to the display. Full tank = 12-14 ohms, empty tank 118-122 ohms
  • Custom display
    • Odometer
    • Trip 1
    • Trip 2
    • Trip countdown
    • Trip since low fuel
    • Fuel consumption real-time
    • Fuel consumption average
    • Coolant temperature
    • Ambient air temperature

Other available data:

• Accelerometer (X/Y/Z)
• Voltage
• Warnings

What I'd like to find:

• Odometer
• CAN message for ABS switch
• Where the "select switch" on the right controls connects to

@Hoganhas a good summary on how OBD works on a CAN bus.

Edited January 1, 2023 by random1781

[Ray Ride4life]

That's a nice add on @random1781. Lot's of stuff i didn;t really think about.
I think the warning lights are not the biggest problem but then the wire harness needs to be sacrificed to be connected to a small box with a couple of LED's and maybe a button for the ABS. Two green ones on the outside for left and right indicator, a blue for high beam, red for oil pressure and another green in the middle for neutral.
Gear was also possible via the app but needed to be learned, neutral was not there but he figured the gears out on the test ride after showing wrong gears. Maybe with a bit searching in the options that can be solved.
Eco is not very important for me, when playing offroad it will not come up anyway.

[Ray Ride4life]

To be honest this goes way over my head but i guess together with some brainstorming we might get somewhere.
Funny thing is i hate the 2023 upgrade to a TFT display and now i'm looking into the possibility of an Android tablet but i'm a bit paradox.

[Redneckj]

I just need to know one thing.  

 

1.  rear abs off switch

 

[Ray Ride4life]

8 hours ago, Redneckj said:

I just need to know one thing.  

 

1.  rear abs off switch

 

Sadly it's all or nothing but i have the Stoltec single rotor kit on it's way with an rear ABS delete.

It will be always of then but for the rear i don't thing that will be a problem as the tail wiggle on the T7 is very controllable.

[Redneckj]

11 hours ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Sadly it's all or nothing but i have the Stoltec single rotor kit on it's way with an rear ABS delete.

It will be always of then but for the rear i don't thing that will be a problem as the tail wiggle on the T7 is very controllable.

I would love to do the single rotor configuration but I just can’t justify the money now.  I ordered a Penske rear shock and still have to figure out what direction I want to go with the forks.  There are sooooo many options.  Suspension 101, Ohlins, Soletec Valving, K Tech valving or Cartridges ect…. The list goes on and on.  
 

For me the Penske  shock was an easy choice.  I am friends with a guy that can rebuild them.  It’s a hobby of his. Buy a rebuild kit for the shock, drive over to his house and in 2 hours, I’ll have a new Penske shock.  

[Ray Ride4life]

21 minutes ago, Redneckj said:

I just can’t justify the money now

Luckily i only need to justify it to myself but it has gone quite far to get to where i am now and every time i think i'm finished something else comes up.
This single rotor conversion was now a smart choice because i needed new rotors and for just halve a rotor more i have the kit which includes braided brake lines and the option for a rear ABS delete (even cheaper as when you keep the ABS). Every new maintenance will safe me a set brake pads and the next rotor change i only need to buy one rotor so long term is will safe me money.
I thought a rally seat was the last i could do but then this idea with the Carpe Iter came which add another €1200+ but this is just an idea and the brainstorm session here have to answer if it is feasible.

[jdub53]

I just bought an OBD LX device for use on my BMW R1200RT. With that bike, the actual scanner/diagnostic/code reset functions are all done via the OBD LX Bluetooth interface with my Android phone on a MotoScan app. 

 

Maybe it's already contained within the previous text in this thread and I'm not understanding, but is such an app required to perform all these same functions on the T7 once the OBD LX device is connected? 

Edited January 1, 2023 by jdub53

[Ray Ride4life]

The Carpe Iter comes with the Drive Mode Dashboard 2 app which communicates with the ODB2 scanner.

[jdub53]

I just found this associated thread, and the video embedded there reveals that the OBDLink LX device's app is all that's needed for reading codes, etc, on the T7 (unlike the MotoScan app that's required to access all of my BMW's functionality). I'm only concerned with maintenance functions, not with anything concerning the monitoring of data while riding.

 

   

[Ray Ride4life]

6 minutes ago, jdub53 said:

I just found this associated thread

That tread resulted in this one, but did read the OP?
The idea of this thread is to investigate if there is a way to delete the standard dashboard to replace it with a Carpe Iter to make essential a rally tower without having a tower.
It goes a bit further than having an ODB scanner for maintenance purposes.

[jdub53]

I found this thread first, hence my response to it. Only after I thought about it later did I wonder about/search for another OBDLink LX thread, and that's when I found the one I linked to.

[AZJW]

This video is from the other thread.  Watching it leaves me with the feeling that it's TMI, unless one is running a Rally type race and needs all that information.   Personally, I feel all that displayed information is a distraction and counter to what the T7 is, simplistic in nature.  Funny,  as I embrace techy stuff and can see the attraction to this, but still think it's going to be a distraction on the street. My .02.

 

 

[Ray Ride4life]

49 minutes ago, AZJW said:

unless one is running a Rally type race and needs all that information

That's the whole base why i want to know.
At this moment i didn't do a rally and have not found one that fits my calender (the Dinaric rally is in the one month i'm not allowed to take my vacation) and i want to do an adventure level one first.
It is however not out of the question a roadbook rally will be done and i don't want to start figuring out what options i have when it's already going to happen.
This all is just because i want to avoid adding items and rather replace things to get what i need and is missing at the moment.

[Hollybrook]

I was already using the Torque app on my android phone to monitor my turbo diesel pickup truck, so used it to clear codes on my T7 as well. It is another option for OBD monitoring and is customizable.

[Ray Ride4life]

Please keep it a bit on topic, it's not about monitoring codes but about replacing the display with a Carpe Iter in its whole.
In general there are two groups of people when it comes to this device, some put it in place of the display and move the display to the handlebar and others build a rally tower with the OEM display in the standard place.
I don't want to have the extra weight high up there and keep that place for the Garmin XT for "normal" navigation and i don't want to place the OEM display on the handlebar.
This topic is to find out what problems we face with a bag thank you for @random1781 with a great overview in the second post and if they can be overcome without huge costs as the Carpe Iter with the controls is already a big expense.

[random1781]

2 hours ago, AZJW said:

This video is from the other thread.  Watching it leaves me with the feeling that it's TMI, unless one is running a Rally type race and needs all that information.   Personally, I feel all that displayed information is a distraction and counter to what the T7 is, simplistic in nature.  Funny,  as I embrace techy stuff and can see the attraction to this, but still think it's going to be a distraction on the street. My .02.

Yeah I agree that less is better. I recently rode an older Africa Twin with a display similar to the T7, but it was so densely packed with numbers and symbols that it was almost impossible to pick anything out with a quick glance.

 

I think the display is overall pretty good, but the UI kills me. It might sound dumb, but having to cycle through everything to clear trips or just change them makes it almost unusable for me, specifically because it is a distraction to do. I use trips heavily on trails, so the T7 dash isn't practical to use the way I normally would. It's really annoying because it's 95% of the way to perfection, but that 5% makes the rest moot.

[random1781]

Thanks @Hoganfor sharing all that, extremely helpful! I need to start a spreadsheet with all the unique messages and I'll share it here.

 

Absolute bummer that the odometer is stored on the display though. Did you ever disassemble it to see what's going on in there? And if you don't mind me asking, did you wind up finding suitable devices?

Edited January 1, 2023 by random1781

[Hollybrook]

@random1781 if all you want is a better odometer with trip meters, aren't there standalone devices that would suffice without all the cost and effort of Carpe Iter?  Something like ICO?

 

I realize that is not a rally computer like Carpe Iter, but seems like a more reliable device that is not likely to need updates very often. It wouldn't work for @Ray Ride4life but perhaps might actually be needed as an additional device for more serious rally use. 

 

[Ray Ride4life]

29 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

if all you want is a better odometer with trip meters

The odo and trip meters are the biggest problems with the OEM display removal. Speed, RPM, temperatures etc. are all available via the ODB dongle on the Carpe Iter but a couple of items like a message lights, fuel and meters not.
You need the odo to keep track of the total mileage of the bike and to see when you need service and trip meters (at least one) can be very helpful.

[random1781]

5 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

@random1781 if all you want is a better odometer with trip meters, aren't there standalone devices that would suffice without all the cost and effort of Carpe Iter?  Something like ICO?

 

I realize that is not a rally computer like Carpe Iter, but seems like a more reliable device that is not likely to need updates very often. It wouldn't work for @Ray Ride4life but perhaps might actually be needed as an additional device for more serious rally use. 

 

Minimalism and stripping stuff is pretty important to me. I was initially hoping that the whole display could just be ditched, but I don't think losing the bike's "official" odometer is something I want to do.

 

The standalone trip meters are interesting, but they're both pretty expensive (almost half way to a rugged tablet), and they add redundant sensors/equipment to the bike. Plus I still need maps, so I'd have a tablet/phone anyway. I know, I'm picky.

 

I think if you want to really create a visual replacement for the display with all the existing data, the best way would be to add a little CAN bus-capable controller and tap into the sensors that aren't already a part of the CAN bus (so fuel level and gear position sensors) and send that data as messages on the CAN bus in a standard format. From there you can use whatever OBD reader and phone/tablet you want to read standard messages. Of course even with this, you still wouldn't have the odometer reading unless you do some reverse engineering of the OEM display, which is a much heavier lift.

 

Alternatively, if you know the exact equation the display uses to compute distance, you compute your own odometer based off wheel turns and just offset it with whatever the existing display has. The concern with this is that you need some reliable/permanent storage. I.e. if you're using an Android tablet to maintain the actual mileage andf you ride without it or if it's not powered on or crashes, etc., you're not incrementing the odometer. Likewise if your SD card or whatever takes a dump, you lose that number.

 

Overall it's a lot of work to just match the functionality of the display without adding a lot of extra stuff, which is ostensibly one of the reasons to ditch the display in the first place. I'd guess this is probably why @Hogan lost interest!

[random1781]

41 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

The odo and trip meters are the biggest problems with the OEM display removal. Speed, RPM, temperatures etc. are all available via the ODB dongle on the Carpe Iter but a couple of items like a message lights, fuel and meters not.
You need the odo to keep track of the total mileage of the bike and to see when you need service and trip meters (at least one) can be very helpful.

Practically the only things missing are the fuel level, current gear, and TOTAL mileage. Using GPS for the trip meter is perfectly fine. Don't care that much about current gear. DMD2 will let estimate fuel level based on mileage, but my consumption varies wildly depending on what I'm doing, so that's not really helpful. There is fuel flow data on the CAN bus, so you could probably use this to get a decent estimate on your fuel level, but you would have to manually reset it whenever you fuel up.

 

I wish the DMD2 app would allow for a bit more customization, especially when it comes to OBD values.

Edited January 1, 2023 by random1781

[Ray Ride4life]

I'll think i have to find a crashed dash to disect.
Like i said the warning lights are easy and a small cluster with those lights plus the odo and fuel i wouldn't mind but the question is if that cluster can be made, preferably from a (external) broken dash so you don't need to sacrifice a good one. You can put a sticker somewhere with the mileage on your dash and the sacrificial one with maybe some pictures as proof for when you want to sell the bike.

[random1781]

21 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

I'll think i have to find a crashed dash to disect.
Like i said the warning lights are easy and a small cluster with those lights plus the odo and fuel i wouldn't mind but the question is if that cluster can be made, preferably from a (external) broken dash so you don't need to sacrifice a good one. You can put a sticker somewhere with the mileage on your dash and the sacrificial one with maybe some pictures as proof for when you want to sell the bike.

I would also like to get my hands on a broken dash if anyone has one in North America!