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Tractive closed cartridge


Jason

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Good to hear man. I too feel my forks are much improved since making the changes to the springs and getting the correct ones fitted. I won't bother going into too much detail but I make videos each week and my most recent 2 talk about it in detail. Just in case you're interested or bored. 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Jason said:

Good to hear man. I too feel my forks are much improved since making the changes to the springs and getting the correct ones fitted. I won't bother going into too much detail but I make videos each week and my most recent 2 talk about it in detail. Just in case you're interested or bored. 

 

 

 

 

Ah that's your channel! Have seen some of your footage in the past, nice work mate.

 

Did you get the 6.0 N/mm springs now or just the right length 6.4N/mm springs?

 

Edit: Found the answer in your previous post already 😁

Edited by Tenerider
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Ye mine were always 6.0 N/mm. There’s been so much talk about spring rates I actually had to double check that 😂 But the original ones were the same just 20mm longer so I just got the correct length. The forks feel really good now, I don’t think I could go any softer on the front or it would be too soft. I might get a lighter rear spring though. But I’m in no rush to do that until I get some more bike time in and make an informed call

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Yeah, I was also not happy with my spring rates at first. Same weight as you, running 6.4 in the front and 85 in the rear. I actually think they work similar front and rear, which is good. Lighter springs in the front would mean more brake dive, so onroad I really like the current setup. Yet to test it in rough terrain. With my recent changes I really like the behaviour of the bike.

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On 4/12/2023 at 9:26 AM, Tenerider said:

Yeah, I was also not happy with my spring rates at first. Same weight as you, running 6.4 in the front and 85 in the rear. I actually think they work similar front and rear, which is good. Lighter springs in the front would mean more brake dive, so onroad I really like the current setup. Yet to test it in rough terrain. With my recent changes I really like the behaviour of the bike.

Nice one, glad to hear it’s working for you. I think for the riding I do the 6.0 N/mm spring is perfect for me. Need more bike time to know for sure though

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This was my experience with the Tractive extreme way before you bought it. 

 

I wish you had found it bedore pulling the trigger in yours. 

 

Cheers

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/21/2023 at 9:55 PM, powder said:

This was my experience with the Tractive extreme way before you bought it. 

 

I wish you had found it bedore pulling the trigger in yours. 

 

Cheers

Ye to be honest while it's all an improvement from stock the investment was absolutely not worth it. And the guys in Off The Road who I bought it from have disgraceful customer service. I really was trying my damndest to give them the benefit of the doubt but in the end, they made me order new springs even though it was their mistake I was sent the wrong ones to begin with. It also seems they should have sent me a plastic spacer with the new springs to stop the rattle I refer to in this video - https://youtube.com/shorts/viJ__J0VbPo?feature=share but they never did. I only learned about this spacer reading your thread. I have been on to OTR and Tractive directly about this rattle. It is not right and they say it's fine. €3k suspension and the spring should rattle around like that 🤦‍♂️

 

Very tempted to just change the bike now to a Husky 701. I'm really disappointed 

 

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Ye to be honest while it's all an improvement from stock the investment was absolutely not worth it. And the guys in Off The Road who I bought it from have disgraceful customer service. I really was trying my damndest to give them the benefit of the doubt but in the end, they made me order new springs even though it was their mistake I was sent the wrong ones to begin with. It also seems they should have sent me a plastic spacer with the new springs to stop the rattle I refer to in this video - https://youtube.com/shorts/viJ__J0VbPo?feature=share but they never did. I only learned about this spacer reading your thread. I have been on to OTR and Tractive directly about this rattle. It is not right and they say it's fine. €3k suspension and the spring should rattle around like that 🤦‍♂️

 

Very tempted to just change the bike now to a Husky 701. I'm really disappointed 

 

Sorry for your ongoing trouble with the kit.

I purchased my stuff from OTR as well and had no problems. They supplied the correct springs and the spacers were included in Tractive's original package. It's very strange that these are missing in your package.

It's not easy at all to find (and solve) the root cause for a problem if you can't get your hands on it. IMHO, if Tractive say you've got the correct stuff then it should be as they say. They know their stuff.

 

Is it possible that something went wrong during the installation process?

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22 minutes ago, Tenerider said:

Sorry for your ongoing trouble with the kit.

I purchased my stuff from OTR as well and had no problems. They supplied the correct springs and the spacers were included in Tractive's original package. It's very strange that these are missing in your package.

It's not easy at all to find (and solve) the root cause for a problem if you can't get your hands on it. IMHO, if Tractive say you've got the correct stuff then it should be as they say. They know their stuff.

 

Is it possible that something went wrong during the installation process?

I have a feeling the guys might go through the packaging initially and ‘set it up’. I say this because a mate of mine had a similar issue and when his suspension arrived it was missing the fork caps. Mine came with the fork caps on and the packaging was definitely ‘gone through’. Anyway mine definitely didn’t have the spacers.

 

As for installation, yes I’m sure it’s a possibility. My local mechanic did the job for me though and I’ve been using him for 10yrs and never had any issues though so can’t imagine he did anything wrong. 

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12 hours ago, Jason said:

Ye to be honest while it's all an improvement from stock the investment was absolutely not worth it. And the guys in Off The Road who I bought it from have disgraceful customer service. I really was trying my damndest to give them the benefit of the doubt but in the end, they made me order new springs even though it was their mistake I was sent the wrong ones to begin with. It also seems they should have sent me a plastic spacer with the new springs to stop the rattle I refer to in this video - https://youtube.com/shorts/viJ__J0VbPo?feature=share but they never did. I only learned about this spacer reading your thread. I have been on to OTR and Tractive directly about this rattle. It is not right and they say it's fine. €3k suspension and the spring should rattle around like that 🤦‍♂️

 

Very tempted to just change the bike now to a Husky 701. I'm really disappointed 

 

 

I also had problems with wrong springs, both in shock and fork. They were sent correctly by Tractive when I enquired them. I texted with the engineer responsable for the product, he suggested a different oil level setup and sent a softer set of springs but at the end the problem was on the valving. I had to revalve 3 times until I found a good setup.

 

At this point you should go your way and buy pvc spacers in any hardware store or suspension shop it's cheap stuff. 

If you do not like the fork when you finally fit the spacer, I would sell the cartridges and buy a Boano KYB 48mm front fork if you plan to do extreme off-road. If it's mixed use, I would fit K-tech piston kit on the original forks. 

 

BTW. I had a 701 and I didn't like it, it's a weird bike. Better persist on the T7 until you find a good setup. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, powder said:

 

I also had problems with wrong springs, both in shock and fork. They were sent correctly by Tractive when I enquired them. I texted with the engineer responsable for the product, he suggested a different oil level setup and sent a softer set of springs but at the end the problem was on the valving. I had to revalve 3 times until I found a good setup.

 

At this point you should go your way and buy pvc spacers in any hardware store or suspension shop it's cheap stuff. 

If you do not like the fork when you finally fit the spacer, I would sell the cartridges and buy a Boano KYB 48mm front fork if you plan to do extreme off-road. If it's mixed use, I would fit K-tech piston kit on the original forks. 

 

BTW. I had a 701 and I didn't like it, it's a weird bike. Better persist on the T7 until you find a good setup. 

 

 

Have read your thread in the past, thanks for the update!

Did you also get incorrect spring lengths or "just" spring rates?

 

Also I'm curious about the oil level Tractive recommended to you. I'm running 123mm air gap now (Tractive recommends 120), but then Touratech recommends 130...

I'm tempted to increase the air gap further for less "air spring progression"...

 

Edit: IMHO, the cartridges are really biased to fast offroad riding, including jumps (which I don't do yet). The valving indeed seems to be too stiff for slow speeds. I think this is more or less what you've found, too, right?

I have to say they perform brilliant in slightly aggressive street riding - not plush, but very planted, and they track amazingly under all road conditions I've yet tested (including wavy, pot-hole covered off-camber turns).

Edited by Tenerider
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1 hour ago, powder said:

 

I also had problems with wrong springs, both in shock and fork. They were sent correctly by Tractive when I enquired them. I texted with the engineer responsable for the product, he suggested a different oil level setup and sent a softer set of springs but at the end the problem was on the valving. I had to revalve 3 times until I found a good setup.

 

At this point you should go your way and buy pvc spacers in any hardware store or suspension shop it's cheap stuff. 

If you do not like the fork when you finally fit the spacer, I would sell the cartridges and buy a Boano KYB 48mm front fork if you plan to do extreme off-road. If it's mixed use, I would fit K-tech piston kit on the original forks. 

 

BTW. I had a 701 and I didn't like it, it's a weird bike. Better persist on the T7 until you find a good setup. 

 

 

Great idea actually just going and picking up some PVC spacers. Can you confirm that with the 6N/mm spring the spacer should be 25mm? I’ll try to get that today if so
 

I’ll keep persisting with the T7 for now. In fairness I just need to adjust my attitude a bit after the initial bad experience. It’s an amazing bike and so is the suspension. I just need to get it dialled in. 
 

appreciate the 701 feedback. Part of me is tempted to buy one to sit beside the T7 and I’ll just use it as a lighter off road bike that actually has the legs for a bit of road work if needed. I’m also tempted by a 501 though I must say. Will have a think. Getting married in 3 weeks anyway so if I show up with a new bike now I might be strangled 😂

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44 minutes ago, Tenerider said:

Have read your thread in the past, thanks for the update!

Did you also get incorrect spring lengths or "just" spring rates?

 

Also I'm curious about the oil level Tractive recommended to you. I'm running 123mm air gap now (Tractive recommends 120), but then Touratech recommends 130...

I'm tempted to increase the air gap further for less "air spring progression"...

 

Edit: IMHO, the cartridges are really biased to fast offroad riding, including jumps (which I don't do yet). The valving indeed seems to be too stiff for slow speeds. I think this is more or less what you've found, too, right?

I have to say they perform brilliant in slightly aggressive street riding - not plush, but very planted, and they track amazingly under all road conditions I've yet tested (including wavy, pot-hole covered off-camber turns).

Not a bad idea playing around with the air gap alright and maybe even oil weights. I’ve been thinking about a lighter shock spring too of late. The forks are actually pretty good now and I think dialled, it’s just the spring rattling that has me nervous and constantly in the back of my mind. Never notice it riding but it just has me a bit freaked 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

all that said perhaps I’ll be moaning about the forks again in a week. Who knows 😂

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Not a bad idea playing around with the air gap alright and maybe even oil weights. I’ve been thinking about a lighter shock spring too of late. The forks are actually pretty good now and I think dialled, it’s just the spring rattling that has me nervous and constantly in the back of my mind. Never notice it riding but it just has me a bit freaked 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

all that said perhaps I’ll be moaning about the forks again in a week. Who knows 😂

Try only 5mm preload or so! It shouldn't be much and you could just add preload via the fork caps, which will save you some work.

 

Regarding fork oil weight: This should make no difference at all. It's just the height of the air chamber which makes a difference. The bigger the air gap (less oil), the lesser the effect of the "air spring". It effectively softens up the air spring, resulting in less progression.

The total spring force is the mechanical spring force plus the force of the compressed air chamber. Take a bicycle pump, put your thumb over the nozzle and pump - the force you are pushing against is what I call "air spring".

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/5/2023 at 11:59 AM, Tenerider said:

Have read your thread in the past, thanks for the update!

Did you also get incorrect spring lengths or "just" spring rates?

 

Also I'm curious about the oil level Tractive recommended to you. I'm running 123mm air gap now (Tractive recommends 120), but then Touratech recommends 130...

I'm tempted to increase the air gap further for less "air spring progression"...

 

Edit: IMHO, the cartridges are really biased to fast offroad riding, including jumps (which I don't do yet). The valving indeed seems to be too stiff for slow speeds. I think this is more or less what you've found, too, right?

I have to say they perform brilliant in slightly aggressive street riding - not plush, but very planted, and they track amazingly under all road conditions I've yet tested (including wavy, pot-hole covered off-camber turns).

 

Spring length was okay, rates were wrong. 

 

Exactly what I felt, a super stiff setup that wasn't progressive over small rocks and Enduro stuff, made kind for Desert raid. I could jump anything and not even use 90% of the travel. 

 

Bear in mind that oil level will only be noticeable on the last 1/2 of the stroke, not at the beginning. That is entirely a valving thing. 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, Baramon said:

Aside from "better performance" for more aggressive offroad riding does it even make sense to buy closed ones?

I really don't regret it. But I haven't tested them against a good open cartridge.

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I can't decide cos with import fees open, one will end up 950 Euro, and Tractive closed from OTR will be 1,4k. I mean it's extra 450 Euro but is it worth it.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/5/2023 at 4:13 PM, Jason said:

Great idea actually just going and picking up some PVC spacers. Can you confirm that with the 6N/mm spring the spacer should be 25mm? I’ll try to get that today if so
 

I’ll keep persisting with the T7 for now. In fairness I just need to adjust my attitude a bit after the initial bad experience. It’s an amazing bike and so is the suspension. I just need to get it dialled in. 
 

appreciate the 701 feedback. Part of me is tempted to buy one to sit beside the T7 and I’ll just use it as a lighter off road bike that actually has the legs for a bit of road work if needed. I’m also tempted by a 501 though I must say. Will have a think. Getting married in 3 weeks anyway so if I show up with a new bike now I might be strangled 😂

Sure, for a 6N/mm spring, a 25mm PVC spacer should be a good starting point. Adjust from there as needed.

Regarding your T7, it's great to hear that you're determined to get it dialed in. It's an impressive bike, and once you fine-tune the suspension, you'll enjoy it even more.

As for the 701, it could be a perfect gift. Alternatively, you might consider a 501. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! Just be mindful of the timing if you decide to bring a new bike into the picture now – you wouldn't want any pre-wedding surprises!

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