Tenere 700 Sag

[Aleksandar13]

2 hours ago, Chalk said:

I thought it’s should be 10% sag for the bike and 30 sag for bike and rider!

I'm confused now as well as the YouTube video from the Australian fella... Showed people get 10 15 mm static sag with spacers and new springs... And that should have been ideal.. I'm no expert so I'll open up a popcorn and wait for others with more experience to share their knowledge. 

Aleks 

[TimG]

Well that was surprisingly easy to do.

My Rally-Raid 90kg shock spring turned up about a fortnight ago and I installed it today as it was peeing down with rain and nothing else to do  

Static and rider sag are spot on with 1 click of pre-load.

I'm 75kg and with gear on and tool kit = 88kg. Bike has the Yamaha carrier and a Givi top box.

With the std spring I was at 18 clicks in on pre-load.

My riding varies from solo day rides with minimal extra gear, camping/rally trips with luggage and two up touring. The standard spring was obviously not going to be correct for laden camping/rally trips with luggage or for two up touring. Following discussion with John/ktmmitch at Rally-Raid he suggested the 90kg would suit my use. Spot on @ktmmitch

Edited June 6, 2020 by TimG

[Seventh Son]

1 hour ago, TimG said:

Well that was surprisingly easy to do.

My Rally-Raid 90kg shock spring turned up about a fortnight ago and I installed it today as it was peeing down with rain and nothing else to do  

Static and rider sag are spot on with 1 click of pre-load.

I'm 75kg and with gear on and tool kit = 88kg. Bike has the Yamaha carrier and a Givi top box.

With the std spring I was at 18 clicks in on pre-load.

My riding varies from solo day rides with minimal extra gear, camping/rally trips with luggage and two up touring. The standard spring was obviously not going to be correct for laden camping/rally trips with luggage or for two up touring. Following discussion with John/ktmmitch at Rally-Raid he suggested the 90kg would suit my use. Spot on @ktmmitch

Hi Tim, where did you get those nifty looking spring compressors? 

[bth2]

i fitted a 95 nm spring and have noticed it settles quite a bit after initial setting up. i would check again after a couple of hundred miles.

[TimG]

15 hours ago, Seventh Son said:

Hi Tim, where did you get those nifty looking spring compressors? 

I’ve had them for many years. Can’t remember where I got them but I see there are similar units on eBay. Cheers

BEST SELLER Motorbike Motorcycle Twin Rear Shocks Spring Compressor Tool & Case

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Designed specifically for twin rear shocks (100mm open jaw width). TWIST ADJUST HEAVY DUTY OIL FUEL FILTER WRENCH >105mm. You may be asked to sign in. This simple tool is designed specifically for use on motorcycles.

 

[Seventh Son]

4 hours ago, TimG said:

I’ve had them for many years. Can’t remember where I got them but I see there are similar units on eBay. Cheers

BEST SELLER Motorbike Motorcycle Twin Rear Shocks Spring Compressor Tool & Case

---

Designed specifically for twin rear shocks (100mm open jaw width). TWIST ADJUST HEAVY DUTY OIL FUEL FILTER WRENCH >105mm. You may be asked to sign in. This simple tool is designed specifically for use on motorcycles.

 

Cool, thank you!

[FAR&FURTHER]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:56 AM, Ktmmitch said:

Front sag should be 35-40mm static, 50-55mm Rider, but there is more "stiction" with the forks, so you defintely need to try to average it out over several readings, I tend to wipe the chrome stanchions with a bit of fork oil to help them slide better when checking fork sag

Hm... this is interesting that would mean that I need stronger spring in the front which is strange? Everyone says the front is hard... can't imagine I'd have it soft especially when I'm Yamaha ideal rider of 68kg 

 

Or I can use preload caps to add preload to the front as both my numbers are higher so I'd be able to adjust it more less equally.

[FAR&FURTHER]

On 6/5/2020 at 3:31 PM, Aleksandar13 said:

I'm confused now as well as the YouTube video from the Australian fella... Showed people get 10 15 mm static sag with spacers and new springs... And that should have been ideal.. I'm no expert so I'll open up a popcorn and wait for others with more experience to share their knowledge. 

Aleks 

Not sure if the "10 15mm" in your comment is typo or not but we have percentages so if front travel is 210mm you're looking for something around 21 mm if you're aiming for 10% static and rider 30% of 210 = 63mm.

 

I asked about the front because I'm not sure if the same percentages are recommended. From what @Ktmmitch posted earlier those numbers would be (according to my humble calculations) 17% and 25% for front fork sag recommendation. I'm now with my stock forks on 21% and 29%.

[Chalk]

That is correct,  you will probably find the stock spring to be to stiff but not enough preload 

[TimG]

Another easy as Rally-Raid upgrade  RR preload adjusters fitted today. A simple install following the instructions from the RR website. After corresponding with John @Ktmmitch who said the mid point in their adjusters was the equivalent to the std T7 preload I fitted the 5mm spacer in the hope that the spacer would be sufficient to take up the ½ used adjusters so that the std T7 preload would be now be ± zero turns leaving all the preload adjustment available for fettling. With hindsight I should have put in a 2mm spacer as well.

 

The original fork sag was around 48mm static sag and 62-63mm ready to ride. With 12 clicks of preload I how have 37mm and 52mm. About perfect according to a previous post by @Ktmmitch. 13 clicks of rebound gives a nice controlled rebound damping action.  

 

I'm 75kg and with gear on and tool kit = 88kg. Bike has the Yamaha carrier and a Givi top box.

 

With the Rally Raid 90kg shock spring and this upgrade it looks like my suspension is in the right ballpark. Now just gotta get out and ride the thing 

 

Great products and support from Rally-Raid.

Edited June 21, 2020 by TimG

[Aleksandar13]

36 minutes ago, TimG said:

Another easy as Rally-Raid upgrade  RR preload adjusters fitted today. A simple install following the instructions from the RR website. After corresponding with John @Ktmmitch who said the mid point in their adjusters was the equivalent to the std T7 preload I fitted the 5mm spacer in the hope that the spacer would be sufficient to take up the ½ used adjusters so that the std T7 preload would be now be ± zero turns leaving all the preload adjustment available for fettling. With hindsight I should have put in a 2mm spacer as well.

 

The original fork sag was around 48mm static sag and 62-63mm ready to ride. With 12 clicks of preload I how have 37mm and 52mm. About perfect according to a previous post by @Ktmmitch. 13 clicks of rebound gives a nice controlled rebound damping action.  

 

I'm 75kg and with gear on and tool kit = 88kg. Bike has the Yamaha carrier and a Givi top box.

 

With the Rally Raid 90kg shock spring and this upgrade it looks like my suspension is in the right ballpark. Now just gotta get out and ride the thing 

 

Great products and support from Rally-Raid.

Nice review, thanks for sharing the numbers with us.. Quality product which is on the ... But the list is long and prioritising is a pain in the bollocks

[Osprio]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:02 AM, FAR&FURTHER said:

Not sure if the "10 15mm" in your comment is typo or not but we have percentages so if front travel is 210mm you're looking for something around 21 mm if you're aiming for 10% static and rider 30% of 210 = 63mm.

 

I asked about the front because I'm not sure if the same percentages are recommended. From what @Ktmmitch posted earlier those numbers would be (according to my humble calculations) 17% and 25% for front fork sag recommendation. I'm now with my stock forks on 21% and 29%.

I'm now starting getting really confused. My measurements for the front happen to be 12-14mm static and 30mm with my 88 kilos on it. Others seem to register double this figure!! Compression is set 7 clicks from full hard and Rebound 10 clicks from full hard.

Furthermore, the back OEM with Preload 4 clicks from full hard, gives me 20mm static and 60mm sag. Near perfect! Compression is set 6 clicks from full hard, Rebound 10 clicks from full hard.

Bike feels great on road, steady as a rock. Haven't tried off road yet.

And yet everywhere i look in the forum discussions OEM spring is damned. Could it be that bike suspension behaviour is the result of all of the above put together as a total and that the OEM hardware is not as bad as it 's made out to be?

Edited June 21, 2020 by Osprio
misspelling

[UtahJack]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:38 AM, djkouross said:

Keeping OEM spring:

- 78kg + gear (no luggage)

- Preload: 12 clicks (out of 24)

- Sag (dynamic): 65mm (32.5%)

 

Hope it helps!

I have heard several reports the the OEM spring is good up to around 82 - 84 kg. (180 -185 lbs.)

[Teresa]

The suspension on the T7 is great if you are not loading the bike with a lot of weight and not doing more gnarly stuff.
Why the suspension is perfect (for me): with all my gear and the added carrier rack, I’m loading the bike with an extra 84Kg. Most the riding is on asphalt, with some gravel and dirt roads. Nothing to extreme.

Added 4 clicks of rear preload (14 total) to get rider sag around 60mm front and rear. Static sag is 20mm rear, 50mm front!

 

Quoted numbers for rider sag on bikes in general is between 25%-33%, with adventure bikes the most used number is 30%. This is based on experience and not any science.

Why rider sag matters: in addition to be able to expand as well as compress, the bike should be level, not pointing up or down as it changes steering geometry and thus handling.
The bike has a linkages rear shock that makes the shock behave progressively stiffer the more it is compressed. If the bike sits to low in it’s stroke (over ~70mm) the spring starts to feels like a heavier spring and you lose some of the plushness.

 

Why I don’t worry so much about static sag: the only explanation for static I’ve hear is that 10% sag is used to judge whether your springs is right for you weight: if the difference between rider and static sag is to low, the springs must be to stiff and vice versa. The 10% static sag rule does not take into account the type of riding you are doing.
With my front static sag at 50mm and rider sag at 60mm, that wisdom suggests that the fork springs if far to stiff and the preload is to high. Riding the bike I know it is simply not true, so I just ignore it and enjoy the ride.

 

Don’t get to hung up on number, especially the static sag. Don’t just buy the heaviest rear spring, get the right spring rate for your weight and riding style, otherwise the ride will become more harsh than it needs to be.

 

Don’t trust everything you read on the internet, including this post.

[Uncle M]

@Seventh Son, the compressors I have are from Tusk. In Canada I got them from gnarlyparts so just Google for a USA supplier.

http://www.gnarlyparts.ca/Tusk-Shock-Spring-Compressor_p_2319.html

 

[sorlok]

Is 95nm the right choice for a 105kg rider in gear. I would like to 

dail in my luggage (approx 35kg) with preload so I can still ride it without luggage 

?  Thanks

 

 

[Uncle M]

@sorlok this is from the Rally Raid website:

 

Select the appropriate spring, from the drop-down menu above, based on rider, passenger & luggage loads below:

 

Rider(up to 75kg) with max 50kg luggage.................................................80N/mm

Rider(up to 85kg) with max 50kg luggage.................................................85N/mm

Rider(up to 95kg) with light passenger and/or 15kg luggage..................90N/mm

Rider(up to 105kg) with passenger and/or 30kg luggage.........................95N/mm

Edited June 22, 2020 by Uncle M

[Osprio]

3 hours ago, Uncle M said:

Rider(up to 105kg) with passenger and/or 30kg luggage.........................95N/mm

Really?

105kg+ say 70kg +30?...and make sure you stay on smooth tarmac.. Isn't that over the bike's load limit?

[Uncle M]

Owner's manual pg 1-3 says max load is 190kg., so the passenger AND/OR luggage can't exceed 85kg. So a 60 kg. pillion would still allow for 25 kg luggage. That isn't unrealistic.

 

[Aleksandar13]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:02 AM, FAR&FURTHER said:

Not sure if the "10 15mm" in your comment is typo or not but we have percentages so if front travel is 210mm you're looking for something around 21 mm if you're aiming for 10% static and rider 30% of 210 = 63mm.

 

I asked about the front because I'm not sure if the same percentages are recommended. From what @Ktmmitch posted earlier those numbers would be (according to my humble calculations) 17% and 25% for front fork sag recommendation. I'm now with my stock forks on 21% and 29%.

 

Have a look at minute 16 to 18... He talks about static supposed to be 20 mm.. My previous post said 10 15 which is wrong.. He also mentioned spacing the spring  with 5.0mm spacer for riders up to 85.. 88 kg.. To achieve a better static sag, the bike measured 50mm static.

Anything above that would require new springs,that's how I understand it. 

Aleks 

 

[Ktmmitch]

For the front forks, both static & rider sag percentages are about the same as rear (10% & 30% of travel).

But the forks are less exposed to additional weight of passenger and/or luggage, as that extra weight is behind the swing arm pivot, so most of the extra load gets put on the shock.

I personally prefer 10% & 20% fork sag, because when you brake hard, or hit sharp stutter bumps, then there is more fork travel in reserve, but thats just my view.

The OEM springs, although hard enough, or even too stiff for lighter riders, suffer from lack of preload, so we have added 5-10mm of preload washers to the OEM springs to help get the fork better.

 

[UtahJack]

Set Sag on my new bike at the dealership before I left. I am 173 lbs. plus boots, helmet, and camel pack with 100 oz. water to achieve proper Sag of 30% no preload at all on the rear shock. I will check it periodically as the suspension settles. 

[AZJW]

10 hours ago, UtahJack said:

Set Sag on my new bike at the dealership before I left. I am 173 lbs. plus boots, helmet, and camel pack with 100 oz. water to achieve proper Sag of 30% no preload at all on the rear shock. I will check it periodically as the suspension settles. 

UJ,

Once you've put some dirt miles on and when you're happy with the handling,  please post your suspension settings.   I'm fairly close to your weight and it would be helpful having a tried and true baseline set of numbers to start with.

Thx

[Murska]

Self made sag gauge, easy to check T7 sag.

 

[TimG]

6 hours ago, Murska said:

Self made sag gauge, easy to check T7 sag.

 

Very clever and simple