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powder

Jerky on/off throttle response

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powder

So today after around 180km of twisties, I really felt what some journalists where complaining, a quite some jerky response from close to opening throttle. Kinda annoying. 

 

You guys with Mt07 experience happen to know anything about it, does it happen as well? How can it be solved? 

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norcal616
Posted (edited)

Simply put due to the nature of the tuning to achieve the instant torque and aggressive engine braking Yamaha made the CP2 known for, actually turns the Deccel Injection Off vs On which softens up the engine braking/response...

 

Either adapt a new right hand movements like just slightly rolling off the throttle till you feel the bike catch up and then you can roll off the throttle more(don't treat it like a car gas pedal where you can treat it like an off/on switch or tune the bike...

 

Edit: I dunno if the T7 has an electronic throttle system using a stepper motor to drive the throttle bodies vs a cable system moving the throttle bodies... If the T7 has a APS sensor you can move it back a bit to soften/slow the stepper motor down a bit- it's a mod that's been done with the FZ/FJ/Tracer-09 bikes- From the factory it seems like the APS is set at "17" so we move(slightly unbolt sensor and move it back) it to a value of like "13"... 

Edited by norcal616
  • Like 1

2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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Cruizin
On 7/28/2019 at 5:12 PM, powder said:

So today after around 180km of twisties, I really felt what some journalists where complaining, a quite some jerky response from close to opening throttle. Kinda annoying. 

 

You guys with Mt07 experience happen to know anything about it, does it happen as well? How can it be solved? 

It sounds to me like the Tenere 700 is different in that aspect from the MT07, as that bike is smooth, at least state side. 

The FZ09 is twitchy , my 2014 was bad in that aspect. 

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prwatts

Hi, I am also having snatchy throttle. 

My T7 went in for his first service today and the diagnostics came back with 2 fails: Throttle Position Sensor voltage zero  should be 0.1-4.9V;  and Intake Pressure Sensor reading 0 should be 5-120kpa.

Amazing.  After the service the bike felt no different. 

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prwatts

Update from Yamaha: they have told the dealer to do more detailed diagnostics - I guess they do not like to give too much info to the Dealers as it goes to the tuners quickly, ha ha
So next week it is going in and the techie in the local dealer is going to strip the bike arrrggghhh

Frankly I am a bit worried that Yamaha is not being totally clear and I would be keen to hear what the Tuners say, who know the ECU

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norcal616
Posted (edited)

Replace the bad parts, figure out why the TPS and IAT failed... No point of tuning if them parts are not working... These 2 parts/sensors have direct input on fuel/ign map... 

 

Yamaha wants more information on why the parts don't work, such as user error, are they connected, etc which effects warranty claims... 

 

The TPS is not an APS( acceleration position sensor)...an APS sensor controls how fast the electronic motor drives the throttle body plates... 

 

Edit: thinking back I really don't recall the FZ/MT-07 having both/either sensors fail in general... 99% of the time they accidentally got disconnected or not fully connected when doing work...

Edited by norcal616

2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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prwatts
3 hours ago, norcal616 said:

Replace the bad parts, figure out why the TPS and IAT failed... No point of tuning if them parts are not working... These 2 parts/sensors have direct input on fuel/ign map... 

 

Yamaha wants more information on why the parts don't work, such as user error, are they connected, etc which effects warranty claims... 

 

The TPS is not an APS( acceleration position sensor)...an APS sensor controls how fast the electronic motor drives the throttle body plates... 

 

Edit: thinking back I really don't recall the FZ/MT-07 having both/either sensors fail in general... 99% of the time they accidentally got disconnected or not fully connected when doing work...

 

I may have used the wrong terminology.  The Fault Sheet says "Accelerator Position Sensor" and I assumed that = TPS.  Oops.  (Assumption is the mother of ....)

 

So if the APS is not the TPS, what does the APS do (I read what you said above) and how critical is it if it has failed?

 

 

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norcal616
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, prwatts said:

 

I may have used the wrong terminology.  The Fault Sheet says "Accelerator Position Sensor" and I assumed that = TPS.  Oops.  (Assumption is the mother of ....)

 

So if the APS is not the TPS, what does the APS do (I read what you said above) and how critical is it if it has failed?

 

 

Looking at the parts book, the T7 does not have an APS sensor... 

 

The T7 has a TPS sensor just like the reg ole FZ/MT-07... 

 

TPS sensor tells the ECU how far the throttle bodies have opened...

 

 

In response to your question about the APS sensor( simple way to look at it is dirt bike throttle tubes with the ability to change the "cam" the cable follows to offer different responses)- it's a sensor that controls how fast the electronic stepper motor moves the throttle bodies in the CP3 motor... The main reason the CP3 motor had "twitchy" throttle some owner was feeling was due to the APS sensor set at a high value which gave the hooligan/super quick behavior of the motor- the free solution was to move back the APS sensor to a slightly lower value to soften/slow the response... a high value quickens/accelerate the riders hand input on the throttle tube vs a lower value soften/slow the hand input on the throttle tube... 

Edited by norcal616

2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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prwatts

Here is a photo of the diagnostics print out:

 

 

20190815_103253[1].jpg

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norcal616

Looks like everything is in range??? 

 

Repair- might also indicate it not installed/non existent part vs a repair is needed...


2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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prwatts

TPS is working, APS is not.

Intake Air Pressure #1 is working, #2 not.  Are there 2 IAP sensors?

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norcal616
10 hours ago, prwatts said:

TPS is working, APS is not.

Intake Air Pressure #1 is working, #2 not.  Are there 2 IAP sensors?

There is no APS sensor...

 

No second IAP sensor...

 

Your diagnostic check looks like everything is in spec... 


2012-WR250F...2015-FZ-07(Hordpower edition 80whp)...2015- FJ-09 Graves Exhaust Woolich Tune/Kit 120whp

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prwatts

Yes, I am going to challenge the Dealer on this.  I agree with you 

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powder

I have 4300km on the clock after my Balcan trip. Gonna go to the dealer next week and tell them to check it, it's annoying. It's only in the transition from completely off throttle to on on low to moderate revs, if there is a little bit of throttle and you open, then it is okay. 

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NickT7

Today I went to my dealer and asked if he could do something about it.  He connected it to the laptop and made it a little richer.  (that was only from 0 to 3000 rpm) then I started driving but could not notice a very clear difference.  He did say that if there are enough complaints from consumers, yamaha is likely to develop a mapping update for this problem.

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prwatts

I took out all throttle foreplay by adjusting the cable and it made a very big difference to the snatch

 

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al700
Posted (edited)

Which exactly adjustment have you done with the cable?

Edited by al700

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norei

According to the manual, the play in the throttle cable should be 3 - 5 mm (see page 6-17); I wonder what it takes so much play.

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al700

So the solution is to add more free play? To adjust it at 5mm?

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hombacher

 

If I understand right, it is reducing the play.

 

 

I do not have the problem with a jerky throttle response, that said from my experience with my little XSR700 and close to 40 tkm on the clock.

What was annoying to me, was the long roll way back when closing the throttle. This was eliminated by installing the short stroke R6 throttle. When we did the first break in kilometers with our Tenere, there it was again, when decelerating or breaking into a corner, the throttle was still a little opened. This makes the ride a little bit jerky, when accelerating again.

 

If there is a short stroke trottle with long handle (135 mm) available or from an other model usable, please let me know. 

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X Plane
Posted (edited)
On 8/24/2019 at 6:09 PM, powder said:

I have 4300km on the clock after my Balcan trip. Gonna go to the dealer next week and tell them to check it, it's annoying. It's only in the transition from completely off throttle to on on low to moderate revs, if there is a little bit of throttle and you open, then it is okay. 

Did you get the throttle cables / twist grip free play checked / reduced / adjusted.

Edited by X Plane

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Motoadventure
Posted (edited)

Hi took a bit of slack out of the throttle cable on mine and also putting a full Akrapovic system seemed to make quite a bit of difference. Only just run in so just opening the old girl up. Mick  

Edited by Michael j kemp

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Morrow7x

Hopefully that will be fixed by the US introduction.

 

That's the only thing that bugs me about my 2013 Bonneville. Apples and oranges, but fwiw on the Bonnies the most popular mod is blocking the air injection. In my experience that helps a bit, as did the aftermarket exhaust (was doing that anyway) , and raising the idle speed a touch...

 

It was pretty darn jerky to start with, so...  ;-)

 

 

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Alpenschrauber
2 hours ago, Morrow7x said:

Hopefully that will be fixed by the US introduction.

 

That's the only thing that bugs me about my 2013 Bonneville. Apples and oranges, but fwiw on the Bonnies the most popular mod is blocking the air injection. In my experience that helps a bit, as did the aftermarket exhaust (was doing that anyway) , and raising the idle speed a touch...

 

It was pretty darn jerky to start with, so...  😉

 

 

I made the same experience with my Bonneville EFI (also 2013). It got much better by dumping the SAI and raising idle speed, like you did.  But for me the real difference was syncing the injectors, making the whole map richer (AF 13) and lifting the transition point from MAP to TPS sensor

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