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Strong vibrations when initiating the march after several hours stopped


Ol'crazy

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Hi to all,

 

I can't find information about that question: is normal that when initiating march a strong vibration and sound happens if the bike has been stopped for a day or more time?

 

I think is due to the ABS, wich is charging pressure, butI can't be sure. My car (Suzuki Jimny) does the same, but is higly more smoother the vibration and the sound. 

 

If I pump both brakes before starting march first time I use the bike every day, these vibration dosen't produces.

 

I'm I the unique who expreriences that? 🤔

 

Teneré 700 '20

WR250R '10

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Ok, I'll take a stab at this one.

 

By 'initiating march' do you mean letting the clutch out in gear to get the bike moving for the first time on the day?

 

If that is what you mean, it is the clutch grabbing slightly as you let it out. Mine only does it when cold and has been sitting for a couple of days or more. I wouldn't say its 'normal', but it also isn't a problem. A likely solution would be to switch to another brand of oil.

 

The ABS does not 'charge pressure' in any hydraulic brake system. If the ABS is activated at anytime during operation, a small pump starts up to re-generate the pressure you apply at either lever. The system does not run under pressure unless you ask it to.

Edited by Canzvt
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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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10 hours ago, Canzvt said:

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one.

 

By 'initiating march' do you mean letting the clutch out in gear to get the bike moving for the first time on the day?

 

If that is what you mean, it is the clutch grabbing slightly as you let it out. Mine only does it when cold and has been sitting for a couple of days or more. I wouldn't say its 'normal', but it also isn't a problem. A likely solution would be to switch to another brand of oil.

 

The ABS does not 'charge pressure' in any hydraulic brake system. If the ABS is activated at anytime during operation, a small pump starts up to re-generate the pressure you apply at either lever. The system does not run under pressure unless you ask it to.

 

Hi Canzvt. Thanks for trying another one time 🙃

 

"By 'initiating march' do you mean letting the clutch out in gear to get the bike moving for the first time on the day?" thats exactly what I mean.

 

I always thougt that the low pressure acummulator of an ABS system must will be "auto recharged" if remains several hours without use, but I must be wrong.

 

The strange vibration occurs if the bike stands several hours, but the external temperature can be higer than 30 ºC (86 ºF). And I experienced it either with the OEM Yamalube semi-synthetic and with the Motul 7100 full synthetic.

 

Could be the clutch, really, but is strange that if I pump the brakes several times before 'initiating march', the phenomenon doesn't ocurrs. Maybe in that small lapse of time the oil reaches a better temperature...

 

Edited by Ol'crazy

Teneré 700 '20

WR250R '10

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9 hours ago, Alain2 said:

Maybe your chain needs some lube...

 

I try to maintain the chain always correctly lubed 🙂👍

Teneré 700 '20

WR250R '10

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So, while I don't 'KNOW' the answer to your chatter problem, I will run through a 'possible' explanation using my experience as a guide. FYI, I run Shell Rotella T 15W40 oil in all my bikes and haven't had an issue in over 14 years.

 

Have you ever slipped your clutch for a long period of time in order to get out of a tight/difficult spot? On my BC Mountain trip a couple of months ago I was stuck down in a washout and abused the clutch heavily in order to finally get out. So much so that I had to adjust the cable to reduce the lever free play back to normal. Since then I have noticed that on the first clutch engagement of the day, there is a small amount of chatter. Doesn't matter about the ambient temperature, only that the bike is not up to operating temp.  This chatter is most likely due to glazed clutch disks. This glazing is due to oil deposits 'burnt' onto the disks creating localized hard spots. There is only one true way to get rid of this - replace the clutch plates. You can remove the clutch disks and sand them with 120 Grit (or similar) sandpaper to revive them, and then re-install them which might bring you satisfaction. However, this is a bit of a hit and miss procedure. I'm happy to live with it as the chatter won't cause terminal failure of the clutch/engine/bike, its just an annoyance. IF IT CONTINUES happening while starting off once the bike is warm then the clutch disks should be replaced.

 

As for the relationship with pumping the brakes, I can't explain that one. If pumping your brakes eliminates the chatter, keep doing that, but there is not technical reason that the 2 could be related except for time and engine temp as you describe above.

 

As for your comment about a low pressure accumulator, older automobiles (new ones too, but its much more complicated with ABS involved) use vacuum boosters that assist in pedal effort when applying the brakes. If the engine/vacuum booster or any of the plumbing between the 2 were worn/leaking etc, then your brakes would be hard to apply until the booster achieved it's designed vacuum level. This is NOT the case with motorcycles. Motorcycle brake pressure is ONLY created by you through lever pressure at either (or both) lever UNTIL an ABS event is required. At which point the ABS controller (ECU) computes that there is tire slip, and actuates a bleed valve in the ABS module to release brake pressure until the tire regains grip. It then tells the ABS pump to re-build pressure in the brake line to the level you asked for. It does this many times per second and is controlled by the ABS controller with input from the ABS tone rings, internal pressure sensors and an application map within the ABS ECU. On earlier systems this cycling of pressure on/off could be felt in the lever/pedal as the controller speed was relatively slow.

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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Thank you very much for your full explanation on clutches and ABS systems.

 

I use the clutch a lot on little off-road trails, but I don't think it's anything it's not designed for.

 

If I finally find out the reason for the problem, I'll tell it here.

 

Meanwhile I am calmer knowing that it is not something excessively strange.

 

By the way, I have looked for the oil you mention, Shell Rotella T 15W40, and I have only found it for diesel engines. Do you have a link to somewhere I can find it for the T7? -> I found info about this. Forget it.

 

Thanks again.

Edited by Ol'crazy

Teneré 700 '20

WR250R '10

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No problem. Happy to help.

 

Shell Rotella T is a diesel engine oil, but it is JASO MA 2 compliant meaning you can use it in unit engine/gearbox/clutch applications as it does not have friction modifiers that can kill your wet clutch.

 

HOWEVER, you must be careful as Rotella T4 and T6 are JASO MA2 compliant, but Rotella T5 does NOT advertise it is JASO MA2 compliant, therefore I have NOT used the 10W30 T5 oil

 

Make sure you choose the correct one if you are going that route. Look for JASO MA/MA2 on the label. I use Rotella T4 15W40 exclusively.

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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