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MAD TV testing: Re-shimmed vs. K-Tech vs. RallyRaid open cartridge


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Very interesting. Think I'll call K Tech USA in the morning and see what they can do. I see their main shop is on Long Island: not too difficult to ship my forks and shock out there.

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  • 2 months later...
On 12/20/2020 at 1:16 PM, JDCooper said:

Very interesting. Think I'll call K Tech USA in the morning and see what they can do. I see their main shop is on Long Island: not too difficult to ship my forks and shock out there.

my thought as well,  I'm in BC Canada and was quoted just over 1600 for the k tech fork and shock valving and appropriate springs.  from the research I have done Ktech gets great reviews.   the Ohlins quote was north of 3500 for the shock and fork cartridge kit.  

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On 2/24/2021 at 12:21 PM, Scribble said:

my thought as well,  I'm in BC Canada and was quoted just over 1600 for the k tech fork and shock valving and appropriate springs.  from the research I have done Ktech gets great reviews.   the Ohlins quote was north of 3500 for the shock and fork cartridge kit.  

@ScribbleWere you dealing with someone local for your suspension quote?  I'm looking for somewhere to get some pricing as well.

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4 hours ago, Colddog said:

@ScribbleWere you dealing with someone local for your suspension quote?  I'm looking for somewhere to get some pricing as well.

Cold dog,  suspension works in vancouver bc.

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I'll be just under $1900 with Rally Raid 35mm Open Cartridge fork system, 9.0 rear spring, and shock revalve by BFD Moto (Blackfoot Motorsports) in Calgary including freight/taxes etc. When I spoke with BFD this morning, they mentioned they can mod the forks with shim stacks etc to make it 'much' better than stock, but since I have the RR kit coming I didn't ask price. Talk to Derek if you are interested.

Edited by Canzvt
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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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Jeez, that video got way too technical for me real quick.....

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  • 5 weeks later...

Fork kit arrived yesterday. Time for so garage therapy! Should have it back on its wheels tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it out.

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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All done. 5 hours to fit a new rear spring, and the front cartridge kit including setting up oil levels and sag. 9.0 kg/mm rear spring, 6.2 kg/mm front springs. front sag at 22mm (thick spacer, 20 clicks in), rear at 21mm static (8 clicks). Haven't checked dynamic yet. Ran out of time today for a test ride, but tomorrow's looking promising...😀

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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7 hours ago, Canzvt said:

Fork kit arrived yesterday. Time for so garage therapy! Should have it back on its wheels tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it out.

How difficult was the cartridge install?  It looked fairly involved when I looked through the instructions on the Rally Raid website. 

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54 minutes ago, Canzvt said:

All done. 5 hours to fit a new rear spring, and the front cartridge kit including setting up oil levels and sag. 9.0 kg/mm rear spring, 6.2 kg/mm front springs. front sag at 22mm (thick spacer, 20 clicks in), rear at 21mm static (8 clicks). Haven't checked dynamic yet. Ran out of time today for a test ride, but tomorrow's looking promising...😀

Ah..wish we could swap bikes for a ride, I've just had the KTech done, by Clive Ward I'm the madtv vid, would love to see how the rally raid goes, can't wait for your appraisal.

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24 minutes ago, Liquidape said:

How difficult was the cartridge install?  It looked fairly involved when I looked through the instructions on the Rally Raid website. 

I guess that depends upon your level of ability and the tools you have at hand. Only required common hand tools, although get the Yamaha cartridge removal tool (from Rally Raid) if you do go ahead. I downloaded the instructions from RR's site. Read them through. Didn't really understand the details, but understood the concepts, then jumped in. Once into it, the instructions are perfectly clear. I didn't find it any more work or difficult than removing the rear wheel, changing a tire, greasing the rear suspension, and then putting it all back together. If rebuilding the engine from the gearbox up is a 10 out of 10, then I would say this is a 4 out of 10 first time. 2.5 out of 10 for the next ones.

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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22 minutes ago, Stevoh said:

Ah..wish we could swap bikes for a ride, I've just had the KTech done, by Clive Ward I'm the madtv vid, would love to see how the rally raid goes, can't wait for your appraisal.

Get rid of Covid, and I'll take you up on it! 😀 When I lived in Perth, I formulated a plan to ride around Aussie someday. 3 kids later (only 1 still left at home) and 22 years and I'm ready to make it happen.

 

Will report once I get to abuse her a bit.

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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3 minutes ago, Canzvt said:

Get rid of Covid, and I'll take you up on it! 😀 When I lived in Perth, I formulated a plan to ride around Aussie someday. 3 kids later (only 1 still left at home) and 22 years and I'm ready to make it happen.

 

Will report once I get to abuse her a bit.

I'll quit work and go lol 😉

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  • 1 month later...

I just bit the bullet and this will happen to my bike tomorrow 

 

went for the full K-Tech as the suspension specialist said that a lot of the other stuff is just “bling” 😂

 

fork kit 335 euro +springs 110 + oil 20 + labor 185 =  650 euro

shock kit 100 + shock rebuilt (oil/dust seal/oil seal/bush/oring /bleed port /nitrogen/take out/put on bike/ check linkage ) 150 euro  = 250 euro 

so total suspension works and parts 900 euro

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It’s nice to see that in the shock Yamaha put soapy water instead of oil 🤪 

 

after 7000km it was completely full with foam so no wonder it wasn’t working correctly. I have videos from the shock rebuild but don’t seem to be able to upload them directly... will make some YouTub at some point I guess 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wonder if someone has experience simply changing the oil in stock forks and shock significantly improves the behaviour of stock suspension?

 

After about 2000km of Greek TET i can safely say i did find some preferable settings but I did experience noticeable suspension fade. What i mean is when you start offroading the suspension still copes with making your ride fairly plush whereas after a while, i.e. when the oil heats up too much, the ride becomes harsher and the shock bouncy.

 

Given Hugo's comment, would changing both fork and shock oil for some top notch oil make a difference? My bike has 11kkm...

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  • 10 months later...
  • 5 months later...

Hey all, I'm trying to install the ORDS K-tech fork cartridges.  I've got it all torn apart, at the moment I'm trying to install the new cartridges.  It's hard to explain, but I'm having a problem figuring out how to get any leverage on the cap side of the cartridge to screw in the bolt on the axle side.  There are some spots for a tool to engage on the cap side, but there's a spacer that's blocking it.  It doesn't fit over the spring guide to get off the cartridge, and I can't find a way to get the bolt/spring guide off, it just twists internally.  I can throw the forks together and hope that the spring tension holds things in place, but I'm worried it won't engage the threads all the way.  

image.jpeg.42b274236f8ef04bd45c487c3b35a537.jpeg

 

 

Overall, is there any instructions someone can find for the k-tech cartridge install?  I've been guessing and following Nerb's video for the RR install so far.  It's especially annoying that I can't find any install instructions anywhere. 

 

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Update: I did get a manual directly from K-tech.  It unfortunately did not answer my question about locking the fork cartridge in place 😞  I can't upload PDF's here, so  I guess DM me with an email address for anyone interested

 

 

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Send Nerb a message, if he has done the install he might be able to answer your questions, he's on FB also.

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Let me explain why I went with the Rally Raid Open Cartridge. I live in Arizona, read that as ALOT OF ROCKS! The stock suspension after many attempts with adjustments, beat me up in high speed action, not mph/kph but fast fork movements and choppy ground. If I was on rolling ground or whoops, the bike did pretty good except for the ass end but that's another chapter. I tried reshimming  the stack on the compression side but to no avail. I quickly came to the conclusion that the limiting factor was the small piston. The rally raid has a much bigger piston, much bigger holes and more shims that absorb this harshness much better. After some fork clicker adjustments, I found the sweet spot, much more comfy over the rough terrain. And very good over the whoops. You will never notice how good OR bad your suspension is until you make it work for you. If you ride mostly on the road, with fairly good asphalt, you will not need any more than clicker adjustment. Springs aside for you heavier riders. But I ride a bit aggressive and I bought the T7 to go off road, so the $840 I spent was well worth it. I used to be a MC mechanic so I found the install very easy and straight forward without the need for expensive tools except a socket Allen wrench to remove the compression base unit at the bottom of the fork. I am very happy with my decision!

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@Svrider did you do just the forks for that $850? Im really interested in doing some drop in fork carts and a new shock. 

 

I watched the vid above and the KTech looks like a good way to go.  Anybody done both front AND rear and have some more feedback?

 

 

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@DT675 - I went with the Ktech valves and springs on the forks.  I'm pleased with the Ktech kit. I suspect one can still bump into the limits of it a little quicker than you can hit the limits of a good cartridge kit but the ride quality of the piston kit is very very good and expands the capabilities of the stock suspension tremendously.  

 

Haven't decided what direction I'll go with the shock yet.  Right now I have it just re-sprung and it's working better than I anticipated so not feeling in a rush to jump into changing it further.  If I do opt to make a change it would probably be to get another shock.  The stocker feels about as good to me as it has any right to. I don't think the valving is all that far off but I'm also not far from it's target weight range so that helps some.  

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I weigh about 225lbs without gear and that led me to follow a different path than @Windblown.

 

From past experience tuning race car suspensions, I have developed an appreciation for balancing damping and spring rates. I needed to go to a 90 or 95Nm rear spring and was concerned about exceeding the stock shock's damping capabilities especially during long bumpy rides.  Also, the small piston in the forks has issues in hard offroad use as does the geometry of the hydraulic bump stop. 

 

If I had bought this bike for mostly road riding or only planned to keep it for a year or two, I would have changed springs and re-shimmed the fork valves as per the excellent instructions on ADVRider.com.  But, I probably will never sell the T7 (I still have my 1985 FJ600 that i bought new) so went with the Rally Raid open cartridges and shock, both sprung for my weight. So far, I am quite happy with that decision.

 

Are they perfect? Certainly not, but they are much better than stock and I suspect better than I would have ended up with if I had gone the modified stock route.  They were also a one and done solution with no fiddling required, leaving me more time to ride. 

Edited by Hollybrook
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