Spring upgrade - sanity check requested

[Spacejunky]

I'm hoping for some confirmation that my intended purchase is reasonable. I want to upgrade the rear spring and fork springs to accomodate my bulk and bike accessories.

 

Rider weight, w/ gear: 245 lbs (111 kg)

Additional accessories, tools, etc.: ~20 lbs (9 kg) 

TOTAL LOAD: 265 lbs (120 kg)

 

I'm looking at K-Tech, mostly because I'm in the USA so shipping costs are reasonable. I'm targeting:

Rear spring: 95 N m

Fork springs: 0.66 kg/mm

 

These springs are stiffer than what most people use (based on my reading), but I'm also heavier than most. Are the above springs reasonable?

 

If useful, a bit more detail about my riding: I don't plan on carrying a passenger. The 265 lbs (120 kg) cited above will be my typical riding weight, but at times I plan to carry additional gear for longer trips. I'll ride mostly dirt, ranging from forest roads to rocky trails, with some single track lightly sprinkled in. I'm an intermediate level rider; I plan on riding the bike as hard as I'm capable, but you won't find me catching air off jumps. 

[Canzvt]

So I'm 240lbs geared up, and usually carry about 15lbs worth of tools etc. I ride fairly aggressively, on and off road. Air when available. I just fitted a 90N/mm rear spring (with revalved shock to suit) and RR's big piston fork kit with 6.4N/mm front springs with 10mm of preload. Static sag was achieved with 8 clicks out on the shock adjuster, and 20 clicks on the fork adjusters (RR Caps). I haven't had a chance to beat it up off road yet, but on road it feels great. I may still go forward with a 95 N/mm spring in the future as I suspect I might still be a little under sprung, but only seat time will tell me that. The front end feels perfect. SO, while 0.66 springs up front MAY be a bit harsh, I think you are very close. I would recommend getting the shock re-done to suit the spring rate though. Made a huge difference on mine. Would also get K-Tech (or others) to rework fork damping. Noticeable difference in feel with my RR fork kit.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Canzvt

[Spacejunky]

@Canzvt

Thanks for the response. A few follow-up questions for you, if you don't mind. Let me first qualify these questions by saying I am a complete newbie when it comes to suspension. I come from a KLR650, my first and only bike, so the T7 will be a massive upgrade on all fronts. I beat the piss out of my poor KLR, 36k hard miles on her, and she shows the abuse. That was on stock rear suspension, and all I did for the forks was progressive springs and a heavier weight fork oil.

 

When you say yours is a revalved shock, is that something you had a local shop do? Something you bought off the shelf? I'm assuming this is a modification to the stock shock?

 

For the RR big piston kit, is that the same as the Rally Raid closed-cartridge fork kit, RRP 626?

Yamaha T7 Rally (230mm travel) Closed-Cartridge Fork Kit-RRP 626

 

 

This is the KLR-owner in me speaking, but beefing up the rear spring and fork springs on the T7 is approximately $250 total, as opposed to spending $1-2k to properly upgrade the suspension. I'm sort of figuring that, after the KLR, everything about the T7 will be such an upgrade, I can get away with stiffer springs and won't even know what I'm missing with more thorough suspension upgrades. I've never ridden a KTM, so I have no idea how great a suspension can be!

[Canzvt]

Great to hear you upgraded! Welcome to the world of T7's. I'm familiar with the KLR, my son has a Gen 2, and a couple of buddies have worn theirs out also. Also aware of the frugal nature of the typical KLR rider. Nothing to be ashamed of, as the KLR fits the need and at least you are out there doing it! That being said, the T7 is a great replacement, but it can be so much more.

 

To directly answer your question, fit new springs to suit your weight, and you will be happy. If you want to be happier, spend a bit more money on the fork kit (RR, 626 or similar) and a stock shock revalve. The revalve can be sourced through your competent dealer, but specialty shops need to do the work. K-Tech is referenced on this forum a lot. Haven't had anything to do with them, as I used a local to me shop. You might be able to source one local to you too. I've ridden/raced for over 40 years, and had countless bikes and this 700 is something rather unique. It can almost be anything you want it to be.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Canzvt

[williestreet]

Rally has open cartridge kit (616)and 2 different closed cartridges(625 and 626) 626 offers longer travel.

All 3 kits use bigger pistons, 35mm vs 20mm for the stock Yamaha cartridge.

 

Open kits are easily serviced at home.  Closed cartridges need more specialized tools to service.  Most will need a shop to service these, although some may spend the money to acquire tools and do it themselves.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but If you decide to go with an aftermarket cartridge a closed cartridge is overkill for someone with your suspension knowledge.  Buy an open cartridge.

 

You can certainly get a very good working fork with just springs.  The next step would be to revalve the stock fork cartridges.  After that you could do as Canzvt has done and replace the entire cartridge.  More money for sure, but you will get a great working fork.

 

The stock shock can be revalved as well and made to perform very well.  Aftermarket pistons are available for the stock shock also.

There is no end to what can be done.  Money is the only limiting factor.

 

For someone in your situation and experience suspension wise I would respring the front and rear and ride it.  See how you like it.

The next step would probably be to get the shock revalved if you feel the need.  

As Canzvt mentioned above  a good suspension shop can revalve the stock shock or forks and get a great working bike for a reasonable price.

 

There are great videos done by MAD tv comparing several levels of upgrades.  You will see you can get very similar performance from the stock components.  Watch the bang for your buck video.

 

 

 

[Goldentaco]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:13 AM, Spacejunky said:

I'm hoping for some confirmation that my intended purchase is reasonable. I want to upgrade the rear spring and fork springs to accomodate my bulk and bike accessories.

 

Rider weight, w/ gear: 245 lbs (111 kg)

Additional accessories, tools, etc.: ~20 lbs (9 kg) 

TOTAL LOAD: 265 lbs (120 kg)

 

I'm looking at K-Tech, mostly because I'm in the USA so shipping costs are reasonable. I'm targeting:

Rear spring: 95 N m

Fork springs: 0.66 kg/mm

 

These springs are stiffer than what most people use (based on my reading), but I'm also heavier than most. Are the above springs reasonable?

 

If useful, a bit more detail about my riding: I don't plan on carrying a passenger. The 265 lbs (120 kg) cited above will be my typical riding weight, but at times I plan to carry additional gear for longer trips. I'll ride mostly dirt, ranging from forest roads to rocky trails, with some single track lightly sprinkled in. I'm an intermediate level rider; I plan on riding the bike as hard as I'm capable, but you won't find me catching air off jumps. 

I went a similar route as @Canzvt but I did full RR shock ( Extreme) and Open cartridges.  95nm rear and 6.4 front.  I installed ONE thick shim ( 5mm) with their adjustable fork caps then added 1 full turn on the Preload knob.  Front sag is good. Their rear shock stock ( or as shipped) preload setting is spot on for me at 240lbs in gear including 10lbs of tools and 2L water in camelback.

 

Front Open cartridge is great and you feel every click of adjustment.  I have ridden hard and only used up to about 180mm travel on front.  I think I softened 1 or 2 clicks Comp and Stiffened one click Rebound from the instructions.  Rear I softened quite a bit on High speed and 2 clicks of Low speed again from their stock setting.  Sorry not sure of # of clicks, I just adjust till it feels good and leave it alone.  

 

Riding, the front just tracks so well even braking hard into a corner over washboard.  Rear is great landing off waterbars and smooth over washboard but I did notice some harshness build up after a full day of riding again over washboard.  Could have just been I was tired.

 

J

[Spacejunky]

A quick update. I've spent the last week further educating myself on suspension upgrades. I also weight myself with gear on; I'm heavier than I thought. 240 lbs naked, which I knew, but I'm actually 260 lbs in gear (118 kg). So, I guess I'm probably looking at >280 lbs (127 kg) once I get crash bars and everything else installed.

 

Based on my reading and ya'lls feedback, I'm sticking with:

Rear spring: 95 N m

Fork springs: 0.66 kg/mm

 

I figure I'll pick up front fork preload spacers if I find I need them once everything is installed and bedded in.

 

I considered front fork preload caps from Rally Raid, but at $400, I'm not sure it's worth my money. Seems wiser to wait a few years and consider going full open cartridges, and maybe at that time consider a rear shock revalve.

 

@williestreet I don't need any sugarcoating; I very much appreciate the direct feedback. Both videos were extremely useful.

 

@Canzvtand @Goldentaco thanks for the input. Ya'll are sized much more like I am than many other riders are, so it's good to know I'm in the right ballpark. Now I just need more dirt time so I can start upping my skill level towards yours!

 

 

[Sherlock]

@Spacejunky my profile is very similar to yours. So I found this thread extremely useful. With riding gear, I'm about 240. I've installed crash bars and Center stand, and will be carrying luggage on occasion. Rarely, I may have my wife ride with me, but would not be carrying luggage during that time.

Originally, I planned on only upgrading the rear spring. But now, per this thread, I am considering the front Springs as you have indicated before. Both are in stock at ktech.

 

Rear spring: 95 N m

Fork springs: 0.66

 

Have you now completed your installation? And what are your thoughts?

 

 

[Spacejunky]

@Sherlock I don't have a ton to report, unfortunately. I installed the rear spring and with limited seat time, I'm happy with it. I had knee surgery in March (torn ACL removal), then broke my fibula in August when I lowside crashed the Tenere. I'm only now approaching fully recovered, and haven't been back in the dirt since the crash.

 

I never installed the front springs. They're in the garage, waiting for me.

 

Sorry I don't have more insight for you!

[Sherlock]

@Spacejunky Dang, so sorry t0 hear that.  Glad you're back on the mend though. Thanks for your reply and the nice leads you and the other posters have provided on the springs. Much appreciated. 

 

 

[Spacejunky]

@Sherlock I look forward to hearing how it all works out for you. Please do post what you go with and your ensuing opinions!

[Sherlock]

I will.  Thanks. 

[malcolmzilla]

250 plus lb rider ALL MUSCLE

Around 10-20lbs of gear plus extras on bike

.69 fronts and the 95 rear from Ktech, with their base valves in front

B to rare occasions of A level rider, crashing two track / forestry, ADV

Sag in the zone, forks stock height

 

Setup works well, I wanted more fork spring initially but there wasn't any of the shelf supplier

I just got a set of Stoltec .74 fronts as I bottom a lot and feel the balance to rear is a bit soft up front, worse with a load

 

I would say go with  the Ktech .69 fronts

Edited May 31, 2022 by malcolmzilla

[Sherlock]

@malcolmzilla thanks a lot for that. I'm 62, and consider myself an advanced beginner. I rode a good bit in my mid-teens in Alaska for a couple of years and a couple of days in Senegal West Africa about 25 years ago. Given my more modest riding style, I don't want to over engineer my suspension. I've heard some say that the 95 NM rear spring is more harsh then they had expected. So I'm considering 90nm and then  comprable front springs. I'm a Backpacker so have all the equipment that I'll need for that. So I will be doing that two or three times a year. But in terms of off-roading, I doubt very seriously I'll be doing anything particularly challenging. So I don't want my suspension to be so stiff that I lose the Comfort on the road, which frankly will be 90% of my riding. Given that, any further insights on my choice of Springs? Also, I only plan on getting springs;no revalving or anything like that.

[Hibobb]

@SherlockYou are 62, 240 lbs with crash bars and center stand

I am 63, 200 lbs with hard bags (mostly empty)

I am running a 90NM rear spring with no preload and backed off the compression dampening.

For me, the ride is much better.

If I gain 40 more lbs, I will get the 95Km springs.

[Sherlock]

@Hibobb nice info and another very good Baseline for me. Thanks. I will be discussing this with a local tomorrow and will make a decision in the next few days. Whatever I choose, I'll respond on this thread with the results.