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Suspension setup for the occasional offroad


chris94

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I've put over 10.000 kms on my Tenere 700 and love almost every aspect of it, but I just cannot get the suspension to perfection with the stock adjustments. I'm about 95 kgs with gear and I've got a new RallyRaid 90 Nm rear spring on order as I'm currently running 24 clicks on the preload to get 25mm static and 60mm rider sag. My issue is that after 100 kms on tarmac my bottom and lower back can't stand the ride, every little imperfection in the road is sent up my spine and shaking my arms. There's not a lot of gravel roads where I live, but when I head over the the TET trails in my country (Norway) I like to go quite fast on the loose gravel and want the bike to behave reasonably nice and safe. I rarely do any hard or complicated sections, but when I do I go slow. 

What would my best options be for getting my desired comfort and damping from the stock forks and shock? Will the new rear spring set me up far enough in the stroke to give me more comfort? A local suspension guru suggested a full KTech revalve, but that's gonna set me back about 1500 euros... 

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Following... Would love to find out. I am afraid most of the suspension upgrades discussed around here mostly revolve around more composition when doing hard or fast off road but do little to slow speed offroad or tarmac comfort. 

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I found no way to improve the stock suspension off-road to my liking, in fact it was actually dangerous off road, I went full k-Tech upgrade, by far the best investment on my bike, it's cost for sure, but I can highly recommend.

If you haven't seen it already watch this YouTube vid, it is pretty accurate representation of price line upgrades, I was lucky enough to have Clive Ward from the vid do my upgrade.

https://youtu.be/kaHbSTDxGFI

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I’m about 90 kg with gear on and replaced the front and rear springs.

I ordered the K-tech 6.3N springs for the forks, and an 85N for the shock and ended up with near perfect sag with any added preload. 
 

The bike is much more supple with the correct spring rates. 
 

I would suggest trying that first before trying changes to the shim stack

Edited by Liquidape
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14 hours ago, Stevoh said:

I found no way to improve the stock suspension off-road to my liking, in fact it was actually dangerous off road, I went full k-Tech upgrade, by far the best investment on my bike, it's cost for sure, but I can highly recommend.

If you haven't seen it already watch this YouTube vid, it is pretty accurate representation of price line upgrades, I was lucky enough to have Clive Ward from the vid do my upgrade.

https://youtu.be/kaHbSTDxGFI

 

14 hours ago, Liquidape said:

I’m about 90 kg with gear on and replaced the front and rear springs.

I ordered the K-tech 6.3N springs for the forks, and an 85N for the shock and ended up with near perfect sag with any added preload. 
 

The bike is much more supple with the correct spring rates. 
 

I would suggest trying that first before trying changes to the shim stack

 

Thanks for your responses! Would you say that your upgrades improved tarmac comfort without compromising the slow speed damping off-road, maybe even improving on both areas?

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For me the change made the bike a lot more supple over the fast short sharp hits than before I changed the springs. Having the correct sag without needing to preload the spring to get there will improve how it absorbs small hits.

So installing the correct springs for my weight improved the bike on both the street and the dirt in that regard. On the street the expansion joints and small potholes melted away, and in the dirt washboard and small pot holes also pretty much just disappeared. 

But expecting to get a damping set up that is perfect for both off road and street riding is a bit optimistic. You either need to compromise for both or dial in for one scenario. 

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If you feel that much discomfort after 100 km of tarmac with - as you describe - even the smallest of imperfections of the road causing an issue,  suggests the suspension is not the primary cause of the problem. Under these circumstances the suspension is well within its limits and should not produce that much discomfort.  It would suggest you may have a lower back injury, which makes you very susceptible to any vertical forces: compression of the cartilage plates between the vertebrae put force on the nerves in the spine causing pain, possibly a precursor to a hernia. You might actually be better off with the stock or even lower spring rate, as the suspension would be more soft - as long as it doesn't bottom out of course. 

 

Alternatively move the handlebar so that you your body tilts somewhat forward. If you sit very upright, the vertical forces go straight into your spine and the cartilage plates in between. By tilting forward a little, your back muscles will be able to take up the forces, reducing the forces on the spine significantly. 

 

 

Edited by WalterT
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At around 500 km, I adjusted the clickers to the point that the suspension was "adequate" and it didn't bother me too much (it was a little soft).

At 25o0 km the suspension broke in and was unbearable. The front and back sat down in the stroke, the bike would wallow in the corners. Suspension was horrible and dangerous on the road, off road it would bottom out on the forks. 

 

I have a mechanic that deals with K-Tech, I really didn't know much about K-Tech when he said that he had a solution for me. So this is what I went with:

 

K-Tech Suspension Fork Piston Kit

118-200-020-016 Tenere 700 19-20

Part#:118-200-020-016

 

K-Tech Suspension -Shock Absorber Piston Assembly

211-300-050 SHOCK ABSORBER PISTON ASSEMBLY WITH SHIMS 40X12MM ADVENTURE

Part#:211-300-050

K-Tech Springs for my weight (forks and shock)

 

This was relatively cheap to do compared with other options here in Canada. I have no complaints so far. Suspension is far superior to the stock valving and springs. No issues with it on or off road. The bike does sit a bit higher, but Im 6'2" and is fine. 

 

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm not otherwise bothered by my back, but you never know.. Mind you I have the Rally edition seat which is supposed to be a bit taller and stiffer, but I'm only in my late 20's 😅

You say the the suspension broke in at around 2500 km, which might make sense as I found the problem getting worse over time. I think I'll just fit the spring and see if that makes any difference, and will probably just pay up and get the KTech shims and revalve.

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No Suspension expert in any form or shape, but had a quick read of your situation, PROVIDING your sag is correct, sounds like your dampening are bit too harsh for you. Either push back too fast (almost no damping and crap load of rebound) or not pushing back fast enough (too much damping so you are just hitting a dead stop)

 

I am a simple kind but data type of guy. I would back off your damping all the way to near 0, go for a ride in a control manner see how that feel...then start cranking up the damping a few notch then off to ride of the same spot again until you find that sweet spot.

 

it is probably not the best way to do things, but it is my way.

Edited by TimmyTheHog
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On 9/26/2021 at 6:50 PM, chris94 said:

I've put over 10.000 kms on my Tenere 700 and love almost every aspect of it, but I just cannot get the suspension to perfection with the stock adjustments. I'm about 95 kgs with gear and I've got a new RallyRaid 90 Nm rear spring on order as I'm currently running 24 clicks on the preload to get 25mm static and 60mm rider sag. My issue is that after 100 kms on tarmac my bottom and lower back can't stand the ride, every little imperfection in the road is sent up my spine and shaking my arms. There's not a lot of gravel roads where I live, but when I head over the the TET trails in my country (Norway) I like to go quite fast on the loose gravel and want the bike to behave reasonably nice and safe. I rarely do any hard or complicated sections, but when I do I go slow. 

What would my best options be for getting my desired comfort and damping from the stock forks and shock? Will the new rear spring set me up far enough in the stroke to give me more comfort? A local suspension guru suggested a full KTech revalve, but that's gonna set me back about 1500 euros... 

24 clicks pf preload on a 90N spring? I do hope you mean 24 clicks out from full in... my 90N spring is perfect at 3 clicks in (I am 100kg ready to ride).

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So I sold the RR spring as soon as I got it, and went for a full KTech upgrade at a local suspension shop instead 💸💸💸

 

I went with a 75 Nm spring in the rear and new piston assembly in the shock. The spring has a lower rate than the RallyRaid springs, as the KTech spring is a bit longer. I'm running 2 clicks in on preload, 15 clicks out on compression and 13 out on rebound, and what a difference! The bike sits a little higher and feels much more solid, while at the same time being more comfortable as I'm sitting higher in the stroke.

 

I got a front fork cartridge ORDS system (expensive..) with 6.6 Nm springs, and this totally transformed the bike. Currently at 3 turns in on preload, 15 out on comp and 12 out on rebound (comp and rebound goes to 32 clicks). The nose dive is completely gone, and the bike is even more confidence inspiring and inviting to an amateur like myself. I've ridden a few dirtbikes in my life, and sitting down on the saddle for the first time after these upgrades immediately reminded me of those proper offroad bikes.

 

My only issue so far is that the front forks doesn't want to "give" on the micro bumps on tarmac. Its not to the point where its exhausting, just really annoying and feels like it should be able to absorb these bumps. Its like the forks are stuck in the initial stroke instead of giving in on the 0.2 inches necessary and instead sends it right up the handlebars, and no adjustment seems to alter this. It might just be friction in the seals and completely normal, but I'll have the suspension shop check it out in a week or so.

 

On 10/10/2021 at 5:49 PM, Poacher said:

24 clicks pf preload on a 90N spring? I do hope you mean 24 clicks out from full in... my 90N spring is perfect at 3 clicks in (I am 100kg ready to ride).

24 clicks on the stock spring 😄 At about 95kg fully geared I'm 2 clicks in on the 75 Nm spring from KTech, which to my knowledge can be compared to the 90 Nm from RallyRaid, so seems about right.

Edited by chris94
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1 hour ago, chris94 said:

So I sold the RR spring as soon as I got it, and went for a full KTech upgrade at a local suspension shop instead 💸💸💸

 

I went with a 75 Nm spring in the rear and new piston assembly in the shock. The spring has a lower rate than the RallyRaid springs, as the KTech spring is a bit longer. I'm running 2 clicks in on preload, 20 clicks out on compression and 16 out on rebound, and what a difference! The bike sits a little higher and feels much more solid, while at the same time being more comfortable as I'm sitting higher in the stroke.

 

I got a front fork cartridge ORDS system (expensive..) with 6.6 Nm springs, and this totally transformed the bike. Currently at 3 turns in on preload, 20 out on comp and 15 out on rebound (comp and rebound goes to 32 clicks). The nose dive is completely gone, and the bike is even more confidence inspiring and inviting to an amateur like myself. I've ridden a few dirtbikes in my life, and sitting down on the saddle for the first time after these upgrades immediately reminded me of those proper offroad bikes.

 

My only issue so far is that the front forks doesn't want to "give" on the micro bumps on tarmac. Its not to the point where its exhausting, just really annoying and feels like it should be able to absorb these bumps. Its like the forks are stuck in the initial stroke instead of giving in on the 0.2 inches necessary and instead sends it right up the handlebars, and no adjustment seems to alter this. It might just be friction in the seals and completely normal, but I'll have the suspension shop check it out in a week or so.

 

24 clicks on the stock spring 😄 At about 95kg fully geared I'm 2 clicks in on the 75 Nm spring from KTech, which to my knowledge can be compared to the 90 Nm from RallyRaid, so seems about right.

That sounds like a stiction problem to me. Make sure the forks are straight and aligned. 

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13 hours ago, chris94 said:

So I sold the RR spring as soon as I got it, and went for a full KTech upgrade at a local suspension shop instead 💸💸💸

 

I went with a 75 Nm spring in the rear and new piston assembly in the shock. The spring has a lower rate than the RallyRaid springs, as the KTech spring is a bit longer. I'm running 2 clicks in on preload, 20 clicks out on compression and 16 out on rebound, and what a difference! The bike sits a little higher and feels much more solid, while at the same time being more comfortable as I'm sitting higher in the stroke.

 

I got a front fork cartridge ORDS system (expensive..) with 6.6 Nm springs, and this totally transformed the bike. Currently at 3 turns in on preload, 20 out on comp and 15 out on rebound (comp and rebound goes to 32 clicks). The nose dive is completely gone, and the bike is even more confidence inspiring and inviting to an amateur like myself. I've ridden a few dirtbikes in my life, and sitting down on the saddle for the first time after these upgrades immediately reminded me of those proper offroad bikes.

 

My only issue so far is that the front forks doesn't want to "give" on the micro bumps on tarmac. Its not to the point where its exhausting, just really annoying and feels like it should be able to absorb these bumps. Its like the forks are stuck in the initial stroke instead of giving in on the 0.2 inches necessary and instead sends it right up the handlebars, and no adjustment seems to alter this. It might just be friction in the seals and completely normal, but I'll have the suspension shop check it out in a week or so.

 

24 clicks on the stock spring 😄 At about 95kg fully geared I'm 2 clicks in on the 75 Nm spring from KTech, which to my knowledge can be compared to the 90 Nm from RallyRaid, so seems about right.

Congratulations on the k-Tech upgrade!

It might take a bit of time for the front to soften, mine is the same on smaller bumps, it has improved a bit, or maybe I'm just used to it, the improvement was so huge in my bike I couldn't stop smiling the first off road ride, about 6 months on and I still think it's awesome.

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On 10/10/2021 at 6:20 PM, chris94 said:

So I sold the RR spring as soon as I got it, and went for a full KTech upgrade at a local suspension shop instead 💸💸💸

 

I went with a 75 Nm spring in the rear and new piston assembly in the shock. The spring has a lower rate than the RallyRaid springs, as the KTech spring is a bit longer. I'm running 2 clicks in on preload, 15 clicks out on compression and 13 out on rebound, and what a difference! The bike sits a little higher and feels much more solid, while at the same time being more comfortable as I'm sitting higher in the stroke.

 

I got a front fork cartridge ORDS system (expensive..) with 6.6 Nm springs, and this totally transformed the bike. Currently at 3 turns in on preload, 15 out on comp and 12 out on rebound (comp and rebound goes to 32 clicks). The nose dive is completely gone, and the bike is even more confidence inspiring and inviting to an amateur like myself. I've ridden a few dirtbikes in my life, and sitting down on the saddle for the first time after these upgrades immediately reminded me of those proper offroad bikes.

 

My only issue so far is that the front forks doesn't want to "give" on the micro bumps on tarmac. Its not to the point where its exhausting, just really annoying and feels like it should be able to absorb these bumps. Its like the forks are stuck in the initial stroke instead of giving in on the 0.2 inches necessary and instead sends it right up the handlebars, and no adjustment seems to alter this. It might just be friction in the seals and completely normal, but I'll have the suspension shop check it out in a week or so.

 

24 clicks on the stock spring 😄 At about 95kg fully geared I'm 2 clicks in on the 75 Nm spring from KTech, which to my knowledge can be compared to the 90 Nm from RallyRaid, so seems about right.

I have the 90 Nm KTech spring and it is perfect at 3 clicks... slightly taller due to sitting higher in the spring stroke. I still need to check the sags this weekend though I feel like its about right for me.

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@PoacherJust curious what your weight is with gear (or without).  I recently just installed the 90 Nm spring as well but haven't had the chance to adjust sag properly yet.  I currently have my preload set to 3 clicks as well, but that's just a guess at this point.  I weigh about 205 lbs or 93 kg  geared up.

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19 minutes ago, Mud_Butt said:

@PoacherJust curious what your weight is with gear (or without).  I recently just installed the 90 Nm spring as well but haven't had the chance to adjust sag properly yet.  I currently have my preload set to 3 clicks as well, but that's just a guess at this point.  I weigh about 205 lbs or 93 kg  geared up.

Sounds like we are about the same... I am 86kg butt naked and about 100kg (ish) ready to rock. I checked my sag and am happy with the 3 clicks of preload which gives me the correct sag, I could easily go up or down one click with no bother at all. I reckon you are spot on with  2 or 3 clicks.

I am happy with being so low down the adjustment range as it gives me all the options in the world if I take a pillion and/or a ton of luggage!

 

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Thanks!  Same here on being happy with the range available for adjustment.  I'd rather be at the low end of preload adjustment than at the upper end on a lower rate spring, with little adjustment left for the heavy stuff if I need it.  Tha KS for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it.

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I'm also looking at a front and rear spring/shock upgrade..perhaps K-tech and found some good info here on this thread, but having trouble trying to determine what is my best spring rate choice for my 165lbs/75k naked weight. Loaded up/rider weight for ADV riding i'm guessing I'm another 50lbs so total rider weight around 215lbs/97k

 

I see here in this thread that @Poacher and @chris94 also both have a rider weight between 95-100k and use 2-3 clicks of preload.  

But what's confusing is that Poacher uses a 90nm Ktech and Chris a 75nm Ktech...which are radically different spring rates. Per the K-tech, the 75n is for 200-220lbs and the 90n for 265-285.  

 

Per my weight I'd  fall into the 75nm, but I read that it is recommended to have the least amount of preload a possible to keep the spring in it's upper part of the stroke, where it's the softest.  But this of course requires a stiffer spring and why most upsize their springs.  

 

Anyhow...if anybody can offer any advice to help me make the right decision I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

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I had not changed my suspension settings until last Friday when I saw this: 

I really didn't have a huge problem with the OEM (I'm 200 lbs in gear) but I wasn't expecting too much. Still way better than a KLR! It was overly stiff on small road stuff and pretty good off road, although I had bottomed the forks off jumps and had the rear end smack me in the azz a few times. Anyway, I went on a big Dual Sport event last weekend and I hadn't touched the clickers yet so I figured what the heck, dialed in Jimmy's settings and over 800 miles in 4 days, 400 on rough D/S terrain, I found them to be really good for me. On my bike, as delivered, the standard settings were just what JL listed except for the shock preload, it was set to 16 clicks out by the dealer, not 10. I think his settings are worth a try before you buy, if mostly for rough terrain.

I'm no expert, in fact I kind of suck as a test rider, but the classic "set sag and go from there" approach doesn't seem to work well with the stock suspension. If you go that route you'll end up with different components. But getting creative with the clickers like JL did here has really made the stock components work better together. And he makes some huge changes. 

The biggest downfall for me is still the little high speed stuff where the suspension is just not supple, like patched concrete at speed or high frequency braking bumps on gravel roads rattling my teeth. But the bigger hits at slower speeds, like off road, it handles really well. You really notice the changes to the shock the most I think.

Edited by Husafreak
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5 hours ago, Henchman said:

I'm also looking at a front and rear spring/shock upgrade..perhaps K-tech and found some good info here on this thread, but having trouble trying to determine what is my best spring rate choice for my 165lbs/75k naked weight. Loaded up/rider weight for ADV riding i'm guessing I'm another 50lbs so total rider weight around 215lbs/97k

 

I see here in this thread that @Poacher and @chris94 also both have a rider weight between 95-100k and use 2-3 clicks of preload.  

But what's confusing is that Poacher uses a 90nm Ktech and Chris a 75nm Ktech...which are radically different spring rates. Per the K-tech, the 75n is for 200-220lbs and the 90n for 265-285.  

 

Per my weight I'd  fall into the 75nm, but I read that it is recommended to have the least amount of preload a possible to keep the spring in it's upper part of the stroke, where it's the softest.  But this of course requires a stiffer spring and why most upsize their springs.  

 

Anyhow...if anybody can offer any advice to help me make the right decision I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Check this thread. Motociclo has complied them good information. He knows his stuff. 

adv_og_logo.png

Here is a bit of info for you T7 owners. I will build on it as i do more. Spring rates. I have calculated these. They are very close to what a tuner...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Husafreak said:

I had not changed my suspension settings until last Friday when I saw this: 

I really didn't have a huge problem with the OEM (I'm 200 lbs in gear) but I wasn't expecting too much. Still way better than a KLR! It was overly stiff on small road stuff and pretty good off road, although I had bottomed the forks off jumps and had the rear end smack me in the azz a few times. Anyway, I went on a big Dual Sport event last weekend and I hadn't touched the clickers yet so I figured what the heck, dialed in Jimmy's settings and over 800 miles in 4 days, 400 on rough D/S terrain, I found them to be really good for me. On my bike, as delivered, the standard settings were just what JL listed except for the shock preload, it was set to 16 clicks out by the dealer, not 10. I think his settings are worth a try before you buy, if mostly for rough terrain.

I'm no expert, in fact I kind of suck as a test rider, but the classic "set sag and go from there" approach doesn't seem to work well with the stock suspension. If you go that route you'll end up with different components. But getting creative with the clickers like JL did here has really made the stock components work better together. And he makes some huge changes. 

The biggest downfall for me is still the little high speed stuff where the suspension is just not supple, like patched concrete at speed or high frequency braking bumps on gravel roads rattling my teeth. But the bigger hits at slower speeds, like off road, it handles really well. You really notice the changes to the shock the most I think.

Yes husafreak thanks….I do need to play w the adjustments more and see if I can get them to help more. I haven’t given them much of a chance so will do. 

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I respect Teknik's analysis and suspension testing. I certainly noticed an immediate improvement, especially when seated. That said I'm 147lb (67kg) naked and the stock springs work well for me.

 

"we find the best settings are 8 clicks out on both fork rebound and compression. Shock comp on 10 clicks out (or anywhere you like, its not a very effective adjuster) and 3-5 clicks out from full hard on rear rebound"

 

 

Edited by Black99S
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On 10/4/2022 at 11:37 PM, Henchman said:

I'm also looking at a front and rear spring/shock upgrade..perhaps K-tech and found some good info here on this thread, but having trouble trying to determine what is my best spring rate choice for my 165lbs/75k naked weight. Loaded up/rider weight for ADV riding i'm guessing I'm another 50lbs so total rider weight around 215lbs/97k

 

I see here in this thread that @Poacher and @chris94 also both have a rider weight between 95-100k and use 2-3 clicks of preload.  

But what's confusing is that Poacher uses a 90nm Ktech and Chris a 75nm Ktech...which are radically different spring rates. Per the K-tech, the 75n is for 200-220lbs and the 90n for 265-285.  

 

Per my weight I'd  fall into the 75nm, but I read that it is recommended to have the least amount of preload a possible to keep the spring in it's upper part of the stroke, where it's the softest.  But this of course requires a stiffer spring and why most upsize their springs.  

 

Anyhow...if anybody can offer any advice to help me make the right decision I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

I’m getting the K Tech fork valve and shock piston kit fitted next weekend.

 

I’m a bit of a light weight at 85kg in gear so I’ve opted for standard fork springs and a 80N rear spring. I ride mostly with no luggage and touring I’d probably only carry 20kg max. I prefer to ride more enduro-lite off road so prefer the suspension on the softer side. I have no problem with on road performance even on stock suspension.

 

Also, the K Tech shock springs are 5mm longer as standard so will naturally sit a little higher in the stroke so you might not need as much preload for a given rider weight.

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Your weight for shocks is always the naked weight, there are too many variables and easy changes in gear so good suspension techs do not base the springrate on a rider in gear.
Edit:
You can go for an optional adjustment based on luggage, that's what i did. That is a back and forward discussion and in my case we chose a slightly stiffer spring but that's only if you make long trips and/or go often with full travel luggage.

Edited by Ray Ride4life
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5 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Your weight for shocks is always the naked weight, there are too many variables and easy changes in gear so good suspension techs do not base the springrate on a rider in gear.

These are the recommendations from my suspension Tech and also K Teck

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