Wandering Front end... could it be the tire?

[Sledgehammer]

Had my bike for a little while, rode the Mid Atlantic BDR on it.... But when I purchased the bike I had some assembly issues. Before my trip I replaced both tires with MotoZ Tractionator tires (the bike had less than 200 miles on it). I've noticed at highway speeds, the front end (and handlebars) starts a back and forth wobbling action, almost like a headshake but in real slo-mo. It's really unnerving and no matter if you lock your arms, it keeps doing it. Makes you slow down as you feel it might just get worse and you might crash. 

 

I had the tire rebalanced twice, they say the rim is straight and the tire balances out, but my wobble is still there (only above 65mph). My buddy has the same set up on his Tenere' with no issues. I was wondering if anyone else has this issue and/or should I just buy another tire and see if I just got a bad tire. 

[Wizbang]

Can you put the OE tyre/s back on and test it out? Worth doing before purchasing another tyre.

Perhaps even the front wheel from your mates bike for a quick test? That would at least rule in or out the wheel+tyre as apposed to the rest of the bike setup (forks/steering/etc).

[Goldentaco]

2 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

Had my bike for a little while, rode the Mid Atlantic BDR on it.... But when I purchased the bike I had some assembly issues. Before my trip I replaced both tires with MotoZ Tractionator tires (the bike had less than 200 miles on it). I've noticed at highway speeds, the front end (and handlebars) starts a back and forth wobbling action, almost like a headshake but in real slo-mo. It's really unnerving and no matter if you lock your arms, it keeps doing it. Makes you slow down as you feel it might just get worse and you might crash. 

 

I had the tire rebalanced twice, they say the rim is straight and the tire balances out, but my wobble is still there (only above 65mph). My buddy has the same set up on his Tenere' with no issues. I was wondering if anyone else has this issue and/or should I just buy another tire and see if I just got a bad tire. 

Motoz makes 4 versions of their Tractionators (GPS, Adventure, Rallz, Desert H/T) and they all come in Tubless or Tube type.  It matters.  Can you be more specific what actual tire you have on the front?  Size and exact tire model.

 

I'm betting you have a Tubless version on the front...and that's not the right tire to run on our rims.

 

J

[DT675]

I have the tubliss GPS on the front of mine and it tracks perfectly. Much better than the OEM Pirelli.

 

The 2 things that come to my mind on this issue are-

 

1-My dealer also told me my OEM tire and wheel were straight and good when I had my front end issue. They were wrong in both cases. DONT TRUST YOUR DEALER.  They wont care about your bike like you will.  If i were you i would put the front wheel on a balancing stand (if you don't have one, get one. You will need it to balance your new tires in the future anyway) and use the truing needle to check if it is true- side to side and up and down. In my case both were off and needed to be corrected. Between that and replacing the front tire it was a 100% fix 

 

2-My riding partner has a Triumph Tiger and had an issue exactly as you reported. In his case he found his axle pinch bolts loose!  His axle was tight but the pinch bolts were loose from the previous owner. Caused the bike to wander really bad.

 

So I guess my advise would be to pull the front wheel, check the wheel for true, check the tire for true, and make sure the front end was assembled proper from the dealer. 

 

 

[174ktm]

I would try re-torque the front end. (triple clamps / axle / axle pinch bolts)

[Sledgehammer]

I have the Tractionater GPS 90/90/21 on the bike. There was no tube or tubeless version of the tire, but seeing I have a spoked rim, I have a tube in there that is the correct size. 

While a motorcycle tire shop mounted the tire, I installed it myself. I know the bolts are all tight and I have had the tire at two different shops ( been checked three times now) and it's balanced and as far as I know the rim looks straight as I watched the last shop spin it on the balancer.  I've never checked the triple tree bolts but I will.

 

When the original tire was on the bike, I rode it slowly for the first couple of hundred miles to break the bike in... I live out in the country so driving around slow on country roads was no problem.  

[Goldentaco]

1 hour ago, Sledgehammer said:

I have the Tractionater GPS 90/90/21 on the bike. There was no tube or tubeless version of the tire, but seeing I have a spoked rim, I have a tube in there that is the correct size. 

While a motorcycle tire shop mounted the tire, I installed it myself. I know the bolts are all tight and I have had the tire at two different shops ( been checked three times now) and it's balanced and as far as I know the rim looks straight as I watched the last shop spin it on the balancer.  I've never checked the triple tree bolts but I will.

 

When the original tire was on the bike, I rode it slowly for the first couple of hundred miles to break the bike in... I live out in the country so driving around slow on country roads was no problem.  

The GPS only comes in Tubeless but is designed for a larger rim.  With the tires contact patch compared to say a knobby, I don't think that is the main issue.  You may have a mechanical issue.  

 

Motoz is screwy.  Their Tubless tires are made for wider rims compared to a same size Tube Type of the same model.

 

Another thing to check which I've had on a few occasions.  The tire bead can during installation pinch the tube under it.  This makes the tire sit higher in that spot.  It appears like the tread wobbles when wheel is spun and usually is felt similar to an imbalance but could present as similar to headshake as you describe.

 

Spin the tire, look at the rim right where the tire bead is.  Normally, any markings or tire castings should be even and the tire should "look" like it's bead is symmetrical all around the rim.

 

This isn't the same as a pinch flat, the tire can still hold air...it's just misaligned on the rim. 

 

J

[Ray Ride4life]

Did you set up the suspension for your weight? DO you have luggage on the back? Are the front wheel and steering stem bearings still good?

[Micael]

On 10/15/2021 at 6:21 PM, Sledgehammer said:

I have the Tractionater GPS 90/90/21 on the bike. There was no tube or tubeless version of the tire, but seeing I have a spoked rim, I have a tube in there that is the correct size. 

While a motorcycle tire shop mounted the tire, I installed it myself. I know the bolts are all tight and I have had the tire at two different shops ( been checked three times now) and it's balanced and as far as I know the rim looks straight as I watched the last shop spin it on the balancer.  I've never checked the triple tree bolts but I will.

 

When the original tire was on the bike, I rode it slowly for the first couple of hundred miles to break the bike in... I live out in the country so driving around slow on country roads was no problem.  

I have motoz rallz, tubeless! And its rock solid even at topspeed.  Gps with tube ?  Why!!   Gps is not made for tubes  IF you use tubes ,you must get Them in place

[Ray Ride4life]

59 minutes ago, Micael said:

I have motoz rallz, tubeless! And its rock solid even at topspeed.  Gps with tube ?  Why!!   Gps is not made for tubes  IF you use tubes ,you must get Them in place

Maybe because the Tenere doesn't have tubeless wheels from the factory?

[Micael]

42 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Maybe because the Tenere doesn't have tubeless wheels from the factory?

In Sweden tubeless is standard! On the tenere. I think thats world Wide. But i can be wrong

[Ray Ride4life]

Why is that?
As far as i know the T7 has tubes.

[Micael]

23 hours ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Why is that?
As far as i know the T7 has tubes.

Checked with My mecanic, i had tubes

[DORTx2]

I have the exact same issue with the motoz GPS tires

[DT675]

Any conclusions on this @Sledgehammer?

[Sledgehammer]

37 minutes ago, DT675 said:

Any conclusions on this @Sledgehammer?

Not yet. I went to Cycle Gear to buy a new tire but they blew me off.  So I wound up just putting the tire back on the bike. I need to order a tire and then find a shop to install it.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sledgehammer
i cint spel

[gone2seed]

Feel is funky. I put a different front (01 gsxr 600) on A sv track bike and ,for me , it was unridable. Friend jumped on it and road the wheels off it.

 Tires can give you the same feeling. Once you get it into your head that this is funky, you hold onto the bars to hard, hate the feed back, and want to change it out! I did! Put a 1000Gixxer front on the bike that had longer tubes  and raised the front getting rid of “my” issues. Don’t mean I was wrong or he was right.

  Your ride , get a different front tire.

  

[wilsondp]

Just to add to this topic, my own experience of front wheel wobble. I bought a new T7 in June and noticed a wobble at about 35mph after 600 miles on the stock Pirelli. I then went on a trip and did about 2000miles over 6 days in the UK. At the end of the ride the wobble had got worse and covered a big speed range between 35 - 60mph. Most noticeable was about 54mph, especially when you took one hand off of the bars and applied zero throttle. I phoned my dealer and explained this, they told me to bring it in and took a ride themselves. The had no problem in confirming the tyre carcass was deformed and replaced it with another Pirelli. It took about 4 weeks for the tyre to arrive but I had it swapped out by the dealer yesterday. Feels perfect, but whether the tyre deforms unevenly again I guess I will only find out after another 600 miles though. Very pleased with the service from Yamaha. 

[Sledgehammer]

SO I finally replaced the tire with a  TKC 80. It's definitely better.  I can run 75+ on the backroads without the bike inducing it's on wobble. 

If you do hit a bump at that speed it does shake some but you can bring it back under control, which you could not do before without slowing down considerably. 

 

It's still not the most stable bike I have ridded and I don't have a lot of confidence at speeds over 60mph. Think I am going to schedule a visit with the dealer and let them go over the bike. 

[Eric W.]

On 11/14/2021 at 12:08 PM, wilsondp said:

Just to add to this topic, my own experience of front wheel wobble. I bought a new T7 in June and noticed a wobble at about 35mph after 600 miles on the stock Pirelli. I then went on a trip and did about 2000miles over 6 days in the UK. At the end of the ride the wobble had got worse and covered a big speed range between 35 - 60mph. Most noticeable was about 54mph, especially when you took one hand off of the bars and applied zero throttle. I phoned my dealer and explained this, they told me to bring it in and took a ride themselves. The had no problem in confirming the tyre carcass was deformed and replaced it with another Pirelli. It took about 4 weeks for the tyre to arrive but I had it swapped out by the dealer yesterday. Feels perfect, but whether the tyre deforms unevenly again I guess I will only find out after another 600 miles though. Very pleased with the service from Yamaha. 

I had the same issue; replaced Pirelli with Michelin and problem solved.  

[Dougie]

3 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

SO I finally replaced the tire with a  TKC 80. It's definitely better.  I can run 75+ on the backroads without the bike inducing it's on wobble. 

If you do hit a bump at that speed it does shake some but you can bring it back under control, which you could not do before without slowing down considerably. 

 

It's still not the most stable bike I have ridded and I don't have a lot of confidence at speeds over 60mph. Think I am going to schedule a visit with the dealer and let them go over the bike. 

Yep. They definitely don’t do it as a type. Handle really well. Tyre or incorrect bearing adjustment/ bolt security/alignment of running gear etc. (Dealer assembly? )

[loneranger700]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:33 PM, Eric W. said:

I had the same issue; replaced Pirelli with Michelin and problem solved.  

Ironically, I have this problem with Michelin from Pirelli. I'm convinced it's just how they wear. Bearings and tightness is all good. It's either that or the spokes are out of true. My money is on spokes, but won't know until I eventually run the Michelins down.

 

Edit: I keep meaning to update this post. Turns out, I have a very narrow amount of true on my wheels, which translates to a heavy hand ruining the steering. Sorry guys, turns out it was my fault. The minute I take my left hand off the steering it goes away lmfao

Edited January 17, 2022 by loneranger700

[Sledgehammer]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:36 PM, loneranger700 said:

Ironically, I have this problem with Michelin from Pirelli. I'm convinced it's just how they wear. Bearings and tightness is all good. It's either that or the spokes are out of true. My money is on spokes, but won't know until I eventually run the Michelins down.

Well, this is kind of interesting. After re-reading a lot of the comments (especially the one above)  and thinking about the weight of the stock tire vs the GPS vs the TKC  it got me thinking about those spoke weights that Cycle gear put on my front tire.  So it was fresh on my mind, I went and rode the bike with the weights on and then took them off and rode it again. With the weights off,  The wobble is gone. Like really gone.... you can "shake" the bars at 75 mph and it settles right back in line. 

 

Cycle gear balanced the GPS twice and the tire shop that installed the TKC said they didn't even have to move the weights when they checked the balance for the TKC.... so I don't even know what to think. I got the bike up to 85 mph and there was no big vibration anywhere like the tire was out of balance.  I wonder if the second tire shop even checked the balance? I wonder if I would have just removed the weight on the GPS tire if it would have went away?  Do they even need to be balanced? Did cycle gear put those weight on there because the spokes are untrue? Should I just go back to riding it and be happy?  Or should I get it further checked out?

[prowlnS10]

A common problem when the front wheel has been removed is ensuring equal gap for the rotor & brake pads for the right caliper because of the floating axle design...it's natural resting position will have the rotor rubbing the caliper body....if the rotor rubs on the caliper directly or as it heats up it will cause the exact weave/head shake you mention.  

Tenere 700: Correct Fork Alignment - Floating Right Fork Needs to be Set Correctly on Axle to Obtain Equal Gap for Brake Caliper & Rotor - Service Manual Front Wheel & Tightening Torques - 'Everything Tenere' & Dave Moss Videos: Align Fork Legs Properly After Mounting The Wheel

---

Yamaha Tenere 700, Yamaha Super Tenere 1200 ES, Ride Reviews

 

[williestreet]

7 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

Well, this is kind of interesting. After re-reading a lot of the comments (especially the one above)  and thinking about the weight of the stock tire vs the GPS vs the TKC  it got me thinking about those spoke weights that Cycle gear put on my front tire.  So it was fresh on my mind, I went and rode the bike with the weights on and then took them off and rode it again. With the weights off,  The wobble is gone. Like really gone.... you can "shake" the bars at 75 mph and it settles right back in line. 

 

Cycle gear balanced the GPS twice and the tire shop that installed the TKC said they didn't even have to move the weights when they checked the balance for the TKC.... so I don't even know what to think. I got the bike up to 85 mph and there was no big vibration anywhere like the tire was out of balance.  I wonder if the second tire shop even checked the balance? I wonder if I would have just removed the weight on the GPS tire if it would have went away?  Do they even need to be balanced? Did cycle gear put those weight on there because the spokes are untrue? Should I just go back to riding it and be happy?  Or should I get it further checked out?

What you should do is pick up a balance stand, some weights and check it yourself.

 

The chance of a different tire being installed and balancing out with exactly the same amount of weight in exactly the same position IMO is very close to zero.   The second shop likely didn't even check it.  

 

Balancing a tire is not rocket science.  It takes less than 10 minutes, and with a good quality stand you can also check the wheel for lateral and radial true.

Even if you don't feel confident to true the wheel yourself, you will know what the problem is and can mark the wheel and relay this information to the shop you choose.  They are more ;likely to do a quality job if you tell them you checked it and it is 2mm off laterally, because they know you will check it when you get it back.

 

There are lots of jobs a dealer might be the right choice to get them fixed.  Changing tires is not one of them.  Pick up a few tire irons and learn to do tire changes and balancing yourself.  The money you saved will pay for the balance stand.  

You do not need a fancy tire machine.  I  have used an old trans fluid drum and irons for the last 20 years and it still works fine.  Homemade balancer for most of those years but I did finally buy a cheap Princess Auto balancer (Canadian equivalent of harbor freight) a few years back.  

 

Personally I would ride it as you have it now until you get a balance stand and check it yourself.

Good luck.