Tenere 700 in the snow and ice with IGrip SS11 studs.

[Wintersdark]

So, after an afternoon tooling around in snow and ice, on pavement and dirt, about an inch of snow and -12C temps, I've got some thoughts. 

 

 

I'm running roughly 50% of my treads with 3mm studs currently.  Motoz Adventure front and the stock Scorpion STR Rally rear.

 

The Motoz is flat out brilliant in the snow, gets excellent grip.  The Scorpion... Well, it's loose, but definitely manageable. On road, it's workable as it is, but you definitely need good following distances.  I'm going to double up on the rear studs, however, because braking performance can be very limited as it stands and you need to rely on the rear predominantly.  I want to move to a pair of studs in every center tread block instead of every second block.  It's a good experience, though, and the front in particular is amazingly tight.  I went for a stroll afterwards, looking at the tracks left.  Nowhere did the front slip - perfect impressions of the tread and even studs in snow and ice.  The rear pushes well, but likes to walk sideways when it does it.  Of course, I'm typically forwards on the bike in snow and ice, so my (kind of prodigal) weight is primarily on the front wheel leaving the rear to do it's thing on it's own.  

 

The bike rides well, even up around 100kph (the fastest I really wanted to go in the snow).   

 

The studs are way quieter than I expected them to be.  You definitely hear them at low speeds (ticktickticktick) but it vanishes by the time you're out of first.  

 

I was concerned that they'd be super slippy on pavement, but that's not the case.  Obviously, you don't want to try to drag a knee with them, but there's no issue riding regularly.  

 

On dirt, it's awesome.  The Motoz tire is GREAT.   

 

About an hour of riding today, and a couple commutes to work (30mins each way) and there's no visible wear on the studs themselves.  One cracked side rear block on the Scorpion, but it seems fine and the stud is still there.  I expect it to let go of the stud at some point though.  Some lessons to learn there in regards to stud placement.  I feel with few studs, this is more likely, as sudden load (acceleration or braking) is more likely to apply to just one stud as it catches while the rest of the tire slips.  For the rear, I suspect most is going to be acceleration load (push the stud against rotation direction), while the front is going to be lateral (but more gentle) and braking which will push the stud in the tire rotation direction.

 

A problem with the Scorpions for this role is that their tread depth is much lower than the Motoz tires, so they can't hold as much snow, and there's less block for the stud to drive into.  It doesn't help that mine have just 3000kms on them either, and they're NOT holding up well to mileage.  I'm kind of eager to swap it out for something more appropriate, but I want to run it out this winter.  Probably run a rear Tractionator GPS or Adventure next winter.  

 

[Canzvt]

Smokin' Excellent to hear you are out there doing it.

 

I learned years ago from track studding that too few studs puts a great load on the ones you have and too many studs doesn't give enough load, resulting in slipping. Just thought I would mention it.

[Wintersdark]

1 hour ago, Canzvt said:

Smokin' Excellent to hear you are out there doing it.

 

I learned years ago from track studding that too few studs puts a great load on the ones you have and too many studs doesn't give enough load, resulting in slipping. Just thought I would mention it.

That definitely seems to be the case.

 

My original plan was to err on the side of too few, simply because they're spendy, and if you have too many while you can remove them you're leaving weakened tires in the process with extra holes.  And too many would be super sketchy on clear pavement.

 

I do feel what I've got is close, but not quite there.

 

What I'm unsure about is the ones on the outside edges of the front tire.  They make tight turns on clear pavement really wiggly on the bars (the bars want to twitch from side to side as you cross the studs at low speed in a U-turn situation), and while I've had it suggested that at lean on ice you'll lose it regardless of studs or not I'm not certain that's true. This came with a recommendation to move the outermost studs in to the unstudded blocks on the middle ring.  I'm still new to studs, but I've found it pretty stable on packed snow at lean when I'm counter balancing with my body weight, at least at lower speeds. And definitely with the front, I'd rather it catch than not.  

 

It's fun to have something new to experiment with over the winter!

 

[Wintersdark]

So.

 

The downside to the stock rear Scorpion is that it gets practically no grip until it warms a bit.  In practice what happens is I park, it's full of snow between the big center tread blocks, but the tires are warm.  That melts a bit, and freezes, giving you a very hard rubber ice ball for a short distance when I start riding before and after shifts.

 

I've been aware of this, and in my last couple days gotten a bit carried away getting up on the pegs and kicking the rear out when I get start riding.  All fun and games.  

 

Until leaving work this morning.  Slide it out left, straighten up.  Slide it out right, straighten up.  Show off in the snowy and icy cul-de-sac I was parked in as my coworkers are walking to their cars.  I feel badass, and like the moron I am, I drop back down onto the seat and take off to head home. Too aggressively.  Rear whips out to the right, I try for a quick dab but my foot slips on the ice (note to self: get strap on ice cleats for the Forma Adventure boots, they SUCK on ice), and next thing I know the bike and I are lying down on the road.

 

I am, without a doubt, my own worst enemy.  

 

Really fucked up my knee in the process, too.  Sprained, I think. *Sighs* can walk and ride but it just feels bad.

Also, damn that T7's weight is a pain in the ass when you've hurt a knee and have no boot traction in ice at all.  I need to figure out a better way to lift it for times the classic bum-to-the-seat-walk-it-up method is impossible, rather than just deadlifting the thing.  My back is way too old for that. Definitely want to get more studs into that Pirelli, and ideally swap it out for an Adventure or GPS rear.  Motoz's tires grip WAY better when cold.

 

Or maybe stop being an idiot.... But who am I kidding.

 

 

[Hibobb]

I kind'a think you are nuts for riding in winter, but I also think you are a pretty hard-core rider and I like you.

Be safe....

[Ray Ride4life]

3 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Or maybe stop being an idiot.... But who am I kidding.

 

Men don't grow up, the toys just get more expensive.

[Landshark]

Riding in the winter is always inherently dangerous as is motorcycling in general.  Riding on the street during icy times takes skill and patience and some very good studs.  Oh, and a bunch of money for studs.  Studded tires will wear quickly on pavement but work real well on an ice covered lake or off road trails that aren't too deep with snow.

Soon, the numb bum races will start here in snowy Alberta, Canada.  There is a place called Sandy Beach not far from where I live.  They run a 24 hour endurance race on the ice where they have made a great track for the bikes to follow and a loop around the whole track for spectators like me to get out there and take pictures.  I'll take some video and post it on this site for entertainment purposes.  I think it is held in February this year. 

 

[Wintersdark]

4 hours ago, Landshark said:

Riding in the winter is always inherently dangerous as is motorcycling in general.  Riding on the street during icy times takes skill and patience and some very good studs.  Oh, and a bunch of money for studs.  Studded tires will wear quickly on pavement but work real well on an ice covered lake or off road trails that aren't too deep with snow.

Soon, the numb bum races will start here in snowy Alberta, Canada.  There is a place called Sandy Beach not far from where I live.  They run a 24 hour endurance race on the ice where they have made a great track for the bikes to follow and a loop around the whole track for spectators like me to get out there and take pictures.  I'll take some video and post it on this site for entertainment purposes.  I think it is held in February this year. 

 

Yeah, the studs are super spendy.  I've got $200 in studs in my tires right now, and another $100 worth on it's way.  

 

I've managed for decades without studs, but the studs definitely make a significant difference.  I'm not sure if I'll keep using them in future years; it depends on how well the last - I'm not into dropping $300 every winter.   2-3 winters per set of studs, though, will be a lot more workable, and now that I've got two bikes I can leave the Tenere studded and ride the Tracer with it's unstudded winters when the roads are clearer.  

 

I'll definitely have to check out the Numb Bum race.  Sandy Beach is about four hours from here, so definitely reachable.  February 19-20 apparently, according to their Facebook page.  

[Wintersdark]

15 hours ago, Hibobb said:

I kind'a think you are nuts for riding in winter, but I also think you are a pretty hard-core rider and I like you.

Be safe....

It's funny.  I get it a lot, but the reality is that winter riding overall is really no different than summer riding most of the time, unless you've got lots of ice and snow all the time.  Colder roads just require a set of Michelin Road 5's or other rain tires (for 17" rim bikes) or anything with high silica content (Motoz Adventures, Rallyz, GPS, Heidenau k60 silicas, etc) for the others.  Heated gear keeps you warm.  Sure, there's a bit of an outlay in getting that heated gear, but lets be real: Being warm and cozy in the spring and fall is more than worth the cost, even if  you don't ride winters.  It's not particularly expensive, particularly in comparison to what we already spend on gear - heated liners you can throw on under your summer gear is basically all you need.  Worse case most of the time for me is side streets don't ever get plowed, but they tend to get sanded, and riding with some care to get in and out of your neighborhood and onto nice clear roads isn't hard.  

 

I suspect people try to ride on cold pavement/ice/snow with summer sport tires - the sorts that need heating up to get good traction even when it's above freezing - then just assume it's total madness.  

 

Frequently, people tell me "when you're older, you won't want to do that anymore" but I feel they're imagining that I'm Toughing It Out and Suffering Through The Misery.  I'm absolutely not.  I'm 46, I've had a fairly hard life and am pretty broken and worn out - I'm a wimp, I need my heated gear when riding in 13C let alone -20.  Arthritis is a bitch.   But I'm legitimately warm and comfortable.

 

You want to run lighter oil, but generally speaking you're fine with the lightest the manufacturer lists.  10w40 works, just gotta give it a minute to warm up, though I feel switching to 5w40 over the winter is better.  There's rampant terror about salt, but even though Calgary salts and brines extensively, it does basically nothing to your bike as it's all powder coated/painted.  Your chain is fine if you use an auto-oiler or simply clean and lube it regularly. It's only really destructive on your exhaust (and admittedly it DOES wear your headers pretty bad) but that's preventable/coverable with a good powder coating. I mean, my Tracer has seen 16000kms spent just counting winter riding since 2019, and it's just fine.  Still have the stock exhaust which while not pretty anymore, it wouldn't have been otherwise as I never do anything to clean it up and it's completely intact.  I just recently swapped out it's chain, which got ~20,000kms and was just starting to get stiff links.

 

I mean, sure, riding daily even in really bad weather is a different kettle of fish - riding in actual ice and snow requires better equipment and a definite skillset (though it's a skill set you already have if you've ridden in sand/mud/loose gravel).  But just riding in the cold?  Nah.  That's nothing.  $300 in gear and you're good to ride at least whenever the roads are clear.  

Edited December 9, 2021 by Wintersdark

[Ray Ride4life]

I ride all year too but here in the Netherlands we don't have real winters anymore and that's a shame because i rather have -15C then the just above 0 we have now with the rain which sometimes freezes over in the morning.

[Wintersdark]

21 hours ago, Ray Ride4life said:

I ride all year too but here in the Netherlands we don't have real winters anymore and that's a shame because i rather have -15C then the just above 0 we have now with the rain which sometimes freezes over in the morning.

For sure!   The cold is fine, easy to manage, but when you have smooth ice everywhere it's super sketchy.  I mean, we get melted snow which freezes, generally just giving little spots of ice and some frozen pavement, but that's not that much of a problem - you get to know where it'll happen and can plan for your approach.

 

Freezing rain, on the other hand, just makes everything, everywhere a skating rink.  Not a good time.  That's where I won't ride; spots of ice I don't care, but when it's icy everywhere... eh. 

 

A couple weeks ago, it was around -12C here, but a much warmer layer above.  Rained, and as the rain hit the ground/cars/etc it froze.  Left a coating of ice a centimeter thick over everything.  Couldn't have gotten a key into the ignition even if I wanted to, had to chip off ice to get into the wife's jeep.  Couldn't even stand on our lawn without slipping.  Stuff like that, you don't even try. 

[Ray Ride4life]

This was in 2015 in the Harz (Germany) back on my VFR VTEC.
First picture was what we had to start with, heating the key a couple of times to get the contact going and when we got them started just let them run to defrost.
Second was on a mountain road with hairpins.

 

[duibhceK]

This was on the way south to the Mont Ventoux and Provence through the Alps. It was end of April and predictions were for rain and fog, but not snow. It had started snowing the previous day while we were making our way to this auberge in the mountains. Pic was taken when we were getting ready to leave the next morning. I was still on my 660 Tenere back then. No studs, obviously as we hadn't accounted for snow or ice.

 

[Landshark]

 

It's coming to a frozen lake near me.

 

Here is the track the boys plowed out to allow a bunch of hooligans to fly around.

  

[Landshark]

 

Too much fun.  But what else should we do when it freezes up?  The race will be held at Sandy Beach in Alberta Canada.  It is an endurance race so it goes for 24 hours straight.  Starts at noon on Saturday Feb. 19th at noon and ends Sunday the 29th at noon.  

And did I mention there may be a couple of T7's coming out?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Landshark

[Frisco]

Awesome!

[Wintersdark]

So cool.  Got the vacation request in (I work over that weekend) but can't see why they'd deny it.  Really hope I can make it out!

[Wintersdark]

@Landshark So I assume you've been to these before?  I've no idea what to expect, anything I should bring?

[Landshark]

4 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

@Landshark So I assume you've been to these before?  I've no idea what to expect, anything I should bring?

If you're coming as a spectator, you only need to bring a lunch and beverage.  There will be no concession due to the China Virus.  You will be able to drive your vehicle on the ice to see the race as there is a "ring road" around the entire raceway.  A camera would be a good tool to bring along.  Although it's called Sandy Beach, dress warm and enjoy the outing.