Assault on green laning

[NZIAN]

Taking a motorcycle off-road is now illegal in Italy

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Taking a motorcycle off-road in Italy passes from initial decree to official law from today making it illegal to take one into forests and fields

 

[Ray Ride4life]

So the TET Italy next year can be thrown out the window.
I thought the closing of roads here in the Netherlands was ridiculous but at least we still have some nice roads and tracks left.

[qInvention]

@NZIAN do you know if that will have consequences on the Hard Alpi Tour ? Couldn't attend this year and am already really looking forward to 2022.

 

Ok, I just checked the article and it "may" have an influence. Will have to wait for announcements on the HAT, these people have experience with regulations and how to react on these.

Edited December 17, 2021 by qInvention

[Hammerhead]

Wow, this sorta thing really helps me appreciate living & riding where I do. No doubt there’ll be some heavy opposition to this in Italy, but will it have any effect? 

[NZIAN]

My European tour won't take in much of Italy, other than passing through, now!

[NZIAN]

Italian motorcycle groups are lobbying hard to get exemptions but, unfortunately, there is a European trend curbing people's rights to roam. Many countries now either ban or heavily restrict freedom camping. The world is slowly being less accessible.

[Poacher]

Wild camping is completely illegal in England and Wales, though not Scotland. Riding your bike anywhere off road is often frowned upon even on legal green lanes and the UK sections of the TET!

[Ray Ride4life]

4 hours ago, Poacher said:

Wild camping is completely illegal in England and Wales, though not Scotland. Riding your bike anywhere off road is often frowned upon even on legal green lanes and the UK sections of the TET!

Here in the Netherlands the same. We had some wild camp posts, places marked with a post where you could camp for one night with maximum 3 tents but they're all gone thanks to the nice nature lovers who left a mess all the time. I always thought you have to be a nature kind of person when you're camp in the wild but apparently not.
The frowning is also the fault of the mostly small group of motor riders which screw things up for all of us and they don't seem to understand that they also screw it up for themselves. I witnessed it myself a few times and one time i went to the hiker to apologise on behalves of all real bikers.
Mostly enduro riders who think they're in a real rally competition.
Today i got a thumb up because i slowed down in high gear when i passed a couple who where walking on a dirt road making pictures and that or a thankful nod happens often.
Also went on a research once, riding into closed dirt roads to see if there was a proper reason why it would be closed and during that research a spoke to a lot of people walking or cycling there and really not a single person had a problem with me riding there. Some of them added that is was because i slowed down and therefore they also didn't mind i was riding more aggressive before and after i passed them slow and as silent as i could (and that was with my XT660Z with a single non EU approved exhaust).
It's easier to give a few complainers what they want instead of enforcing the law.
Funny thing is that we motor riders pay road tax and those hikers and cyclist not but we are not allowed to use the road because they want to do it in silence.

[Hammerhead]

   The walls are closing in on you lot over there, sorry to hear. Canada is still pretty wide open to our interests. Wild camping is not an issue in most places, provided you’re respectful of the land & any ownership.

   In my locale many strictly off road bikes & 4 wheelers are apparently required to carry permits, but I’ve not heard much concerning their enforcement.

  With plated dual sport bikes, you’re good to go as you please. The bigger access issues revolve around forestry companies & their lease lands. 

But again, you’re highly unlikely to have any grievances with them unless

they find you behind their closed gates during fire season.
   The near endless logging road networks they’ve built provide vast territories to explore at will, with practically zero worry about being told you’re breaking any laws. Our expansive trail networks are also open to most everyone.

   Many trails closer to civilization are dedicated for specific user groups & exclude motos, but that’s never a bother because there’s so much more we can freely use further out. 
   Time to move to Canada before our walls close in as well! 

 

[Wintersdark]

Love our logging roads.  Even as a youth, going tearing down logging roads in whatever vehicle you could find was a super fun passtime.  You can ride literally hundreds or even thousands of kilometers without touching pavement.   The upside of a vast country with only a very narrow band being developed.

 

 

[Hammerhead]

Indeed a vast & largely undeveloped land under the maple leaf. Most of the logging network here is decommissioned, unmaintained & better described as twin track trails than roads. ADV bike heaven in so many ways. We’re spoiled & I try not to take it for granted.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Hammerhead

[Landshark]

In Alberta, they have instituted a "usage charge" if you want to wild camp in the mountainous regions.  And the fish cops do check often.  Where you once could just pick a spot off of the Forestry Trunk Road and set up camp to ride out from for free, it now costs money.  A lot of the mountain riding areas were lost with past governments of tree lovers who loved the lobbyists cash.  Some not even from Canada but paying the corrupt official to go along with they're plan.  

Ride it while you can, there's not much time left in this province to do so.

[Hammerhead]

27 minutes ago, Landshark said:

In Alberta, they have instituted a "usage charge" if you want to wild camp in the mountainous regions.  And the fish cops do check often.  Where you once could just pick a spot off of the Forestry Trunk Road and set up camp to ride out from for free, it now costs money.  A lot of the mountain riding areas were lost with past governments of tree lovers who loved the lobbyists cash.  Some not even from Canada but paying the corrupt official to go along with they're plan.  

Ride it while you can, there's not much time left in this province to do so.

Noted for when I cross the divide. So are you required to pay these “usage charges” up front if you plan to camp or is it collected by the fish cops when/if they find you?  Still far better than being shut out altogether. Literally the “small price to pay”…. At least most of our Canuck bush is only seeing paywalls closing in so far. 

[Poacher]

One thing that we dont have is bears that come along and eat you in the night

[Hammerhead]

3 minutes ago, Poacher said:

One thing that we dont have is bears that come along and eat you in the night

Haha,  fewer of those than many tend to think. Ya, we’ve plenty of them, but those that want to eat you are a rare minority. Bring your bear spray all the same….

 

[Landshark]

23 minutes ago, Hammerhead said:

Noted for when I cross the divide. So are you required to pay these “usage charges” up front if you plan to camp or is it collected by the fish cops when/if they find you?  Still far better than being shut out altogether. Literally the “small price to pay”…. At least most of our Canuck bush is only seeing paywalls closing in so far. 

 

One must pay up front and have proof of payment before you go or you'll get a big fine for being on your Canadian land.  They say the money will be used for trail clean up and patrol.  But in reality, they'll spend it on beer and women and waste the rest.  

I think the amount is like $30.00 cdn. for a weekend or $150.00 for the year...  Per Person .  So if you take a family along, get your wallet out.  If there are four in your family it'll be $120.00 for the weekend or you can hope to return a few times and spend $600.00 per year.  But yes, at least we can still use it.  If you're wealthy enough.

[Hammerhead]

That is a bit pricey @Landshark. Cash grab recreational tax.  Camping in BC will only cost you in the provincial parks & private campgrounds but there’s plenty enough to explore outside of them to avoid that.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Hammerhead

[Wintersdark]

20 hours ago, Landshark said:

In Alberta, they have instituted a "usage charge" if you want to wild camp in the mountainous regions.  And the fish cops do check often.  Where you once could just pick a spot off of the Forestry Trunk Road and set up camp to ride out from for free, it now costs money.  A lot of the mountain riding areas were lost with past governments of tree lovers who loved the lobbyists cash.  Some not even from Canada but paying the corrupt official to go along with they're plan.  

Ride it while you can, there's not much time left in this province to do so.

 

19 hours ago, Landshark said:

 

One must pay up front and have proof of payment before you go or you'll get a big fine for being on your Canadian land.  They say the money will be used for trail clean up and patrol.  But in reality, they'll spend it on beer and women and waste the rest.  

I think the amount is like $30.00 cdn. for a weekend or $150.00 for the year...  Per Person .  So if you take a family along, get your wallet out.  If there are four in your family it'll be $120.00 for the weekend or you can hope to return a few times and spend $600.00 per year.  But yes, at least we can still use it.  If you're wealthy enough.

Wait, what?  I know there's access fees for Kananaski now (don't get me started on that), and obviously in Banff, but everywhere in the province?  I've been here 10 years, never encountered that - though I've not done any actual camping here yet, lots of late night rides out in the middle of nowhere though, local areas off the FTR and such.  

 

How does it work?   I'd assume that's on crown land; is it any crown land, or just provincial parks?  

[Hammerhead]

Sorry @NZIAN, it appears a few western Canadian pirates have hijacked your post & steered it way off topic while rubbing your off road prohibited noses in our first world problems. Rather unCanadian of us.

Sorry, mate….sorry.

   Bit of an issue for you lot over there would be an understatement. Despite the T7’s exceptional street manners, I’m not sure I’d even own one if the off road options were so severely restricted. 
   Can’t imagine this going over well with the dirt riding crowd in those parts. Probably will result in a lot of “illegal” riding &/or a lot of bikes being sold.

[winddown]

That sucks!  But Italy is a small place I suppose

[qInvention]

16 hours ago, winddown said:

That sucks!  But Italy is a small place I suppose

Not quite. Italy - until now - was one of those western European places with the less restrictive laws regarding green laning. So the loss of freedom is really important. 

[winddown]

Yes, I agree, I was just comparing it with my country Australia, a huge place with only 25 Million people.  There is so much outback you could ride for days and not meet another person but it's also so far from anywhere, especially fuel.  I don't know what the laws are like closer to population but I don't plan on doing any forest rides myself.  There is a lot of dirt road here. the roads to most of the interesting places in the countryside are dirt, usually short sections, the last 20 or 40km in from the highway.  That's the reason I'm getting the T7, so I can access the national parks, the waterfalls, etc.

[NZIAN]

I was up jn North QLD and South West QLD. Certainly a big country with plenty of tracks and roads. I don't think there will ever be a problem of finding somewhere to ride!

[Landshark]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:37 AM, Wintersdark said:

 

Wait, what?  I know there's access fees for Kananaski now (don't get me started on that), and obviously in Banff, but everywhere in the province?  I've been here 10 years, never encountered that - though I've not done any actual camping here yet, lots of late night rides out in the middle of nowhere though, local areas off the FTR and such.  

 

How does it work?   I'd assume that's on crown land; is it any crown land, or just provincial parks?  

I was a little high with that pass price.  It is $20 per person for a 3-day pass. $30 per person for an annual pass.

[winddown]

18 hours ago, NZIAN said:

I was up jn North QLD and South West QLD. Certainly a big country with plenty of tracks and roads. I don't think there will ever be a problem of finding somewhere to ride!

 

That's true, NZ, WA was even better, I'm a native queenslander but lived and worked over there, once in Albany in the south, once in perth for a few years and once up north in the sand mines.  I had bikes and rode widely, the roads are endless, the scenery soul stirring.  I never owned an offroad bike but for those that did it's a wonderland.

 

 

 

 

So how did you end up in Portugal?  Work, Luuv lol.  It must be interesting living among an entirely different culture.  All I know about the place is that used to team up with Spain to rule half the planet.