Fork oil level

[S.Ga.Rider]

Just ordered front springs from ktech and new fluid. The only thing I've found is a video from touratech that says to set the fluid level at 110mm extended without the spring. Is that accurate?

[Hibobb]

[Landshark]

3 hours ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

Just ordered front springs from ktech and new fluid. The only thing I've found is a video from touratech that says to set the fluid level at 110mm extended without the spring. Is that accurate?

When you do install the fork oil, could you measure how many cc of fluid you use to get it at the correct level?  It would be good to know.  

[Hibobb]

[S.Ga.Rider]

So touratech says 110mm fully extended without the spring, Yamaha says 85mm compressed without the and ktech says 95mm with no specification of compressed or extended..... I don't know what to do.

[Canzvt]

Oil level is ALWAYS measured with the fork compressed without the spring. The range in oil level is a tuning feature. A lower height generally provides lass bottoming resistance/less firmness at the upper end of the stroke. A higher level is inverse.

[Canzvt]

Just now, Canzvt said:

Oil level is ALWAYS measured with the fork compressed without the spring. The range in oil level is a tuning feature. A lower height generally provides lass bottoming resistance/less firmness at the upper end of the stroke. A higher level is inverse.

This assumes the main fork body and damper rod are fully bled.

[williestreet]

2 minutes ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

So touratech says 110mm fully extended without the spring, Yamaha says 85mm compressed without the and ktech says 95mm with no specification of compressed or extended..... I don't know what to do.

Considering the fork extends 200mm you can throw touratechs numbers in the trash, unless you like your forks to be solid and not move at all.  Likely just a slip of the tongue  by touratech.

 

Oil level is always set with the fork fully collapsed, that is why Ktech doesn't mention it.  It's common knowledge. 

 

Follow the number in the service manual.  There is nothing saying you can't change the oil level to help tune the suspension.  

Stock is 85, I run 100, others probably something else.  Stiffer springs are thicker and therefore take up more volume. So that is one reason you will see a larger number quoted a lot of the time as tuners are trying to adjust for this component.  

Just be sure to take your time and bleed the cartridge fully before setting oil height.

 

There was another video out there where someone was showing people how to set oil level.  When draining They never pumped the cartridge to make sure it was empty and they never pumped the cartridge to bleed it when filling.  They wondered why it only used 500ml for each fork.  Who knows what their actual oil was??

 

Anyone can post a video, and a lot of them are full of bad info.

 

 

 

 

 

[S.Ga.Rider]

49 minutes ago, williestreet said:

Considering the fork extends 200mm you can throw touratechs numbers in the trash, unless you like your forks to be solid and not move at all.  Likely just a slip of the tongue  by touratech.

 

Oil level is always set with the fork fully collapsed, that is why Ktech doesn't mention it.  It's common knowledge. 

 

Follow the number in the service manual.  There is nothing saying you can't change the oil level to help tune the suspension.  

Stock is 85, I run 100, others probably something else.  Stiffer springs are thicker and therefore take up more volume. So that is one reason you will see a larger number quoted a lot of the time as tuners are trying to adjust for this component.  

Just be sure to take your time and bleed the cartridge fully before setting oil height.

 

There was another video out there where someone was showing people how to set oil level.  When draining They never pumped the cartridge to make sure it was empty and they never pumped the cartridge to bleed it when filling.  They wondered why it only used 500ml for each fork.  Who knows what their actual oil was??

 

Anyone can post a video, and a lot of them are full of bad info.

 

 

 

 

 

Awesome info. I wonder what the air space would be on touratech 110mm with the shock fully extended vs the others being compressed. Would it be close to the 85-95mm. It looked easier to draw the fluid off with the fork extended and the rod out of the way. 

[williestreet]

19 minutes ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

Awesome info. I wonder what the air space would be on touratech 110mm with the shock fully extended vs the others being compressed. Would it be close to the 85-95mm. It looked easier to draw the fluid off with the fork extended and the rod out of the way. 

It is impossible to set an oil level with the fork fully extended.  

The presenter in the video misspoke when he said fully extended. 

 

But by all means go and try it.  You will need an extra 2 litres of oil and Please video your attempt and post it up, it will be funny and awful messy.

 

Trust me, It will make more sense when you take your forks apart.

Post a link to the video in question.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by williestreet

[S.Ga.Rider]

6 minutes ago, williestreet said:

It is impossible to set an oil level with the fork fully extended.  

The presenter in the video misspoke when he said fully extended. 

 

But by all means go and try it.  You will need an extra 2 litres of oil and Please video your attempt and post it up, it will be funny and awful messy.

 

Trust me, It will make more sense when you take your forks apart.

Post a link to the video in question.

 

 

Roughly 18:50. I've never done any fork work so I'm trying to learn how to properly do it before the springs arrive. 

[Ray Ride4life]

1 hour ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

So touratech says 110mm fully extended without the spring, Yamaha says 85mm compressed without the and ktech says 95mm with no specification of compressed or extended..... I don't know what to do.

You can already forget what Touratech says, what i understand is you have the OEM forks with Ktech springs so unless i missed something i don't understand the worries about Touratech.
For the Ktech part you just need to know if it is a level for the spring upgrade or is it for a bigger upgrade from them.
I would start with the Ktech value and if you don't like it change it to the Yamaha spec, it is a value to play with to get to what you like just like preload and rebound settings or oil weight.

[Landshark]

2 hours ago, Hibobb said:

 Good job @Hibobb.  I'll need all this info eventually.  Thanks eh!

[williestreet]

34 minutes ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

 

Roughly 18:50. I've never done any fork work so I'm trying to learn how to properly do it before the springs arrive. 

I don't see anywhere where they say to extend the fork to set oil level.  

What I will say is that is one of the worst videos on how to service a set of tenere forks or linkage.

 

This is the video I referred to before.  

I certainly hope most people do not follow these instructions.

 

This is the 3rd or 4th video I have seen where people show how to grease the linkage, but they are too lazy to grease the final bearing in the linkage so they skip it.  If you are going to put up a video on how to grease the linkage you do them all, not just the easy ones.  

 

It would take a bit more effort to remove the link and do a proper job, but that would take some effort so easier to ignore it and hope you didn't notice. 

 

When they drained the forks they never pumped the cartridge to remove all the oil.  When filling they never pumped it to make sure all the air was removed.

 

Then they are surprised when they used less than 1 litre of oil total when it should have been over 600ml in each fork.  They have no idea how much oil in either fork, but they are not smart enough to know how poor a job they did.  

 

Many other issues with that video.

 

Everything Tenere, who is a member on this site has put up some good videos on his bike and has 2 fork service videos that show good technique and procedures to follow when servicing your forks.

 

 

[S.Ga.Rider]

4 hours ago, williestreet said:

I don't see anywhere where they say to extend the fork to set oil level.  

What I will say is that is one of the worst videos on how to service a set of tenere forks or linkage.

 

This is the video I referred to before.  

I certainly hope most people do not follow these instructions.

 

This is the 3rd or 4th video I have seen where people show how to grease the linkage, but they are too lazy to grease the final bearing in the linkage so they skip it.  If you are going to put up a video on how to grease the linkage you do them all, not just the easy ones.  

 

It would take a bit more effort to remove the link and do a proper job, but that would take some effort so easier to ignore it and hope you didn't notice. 

 

When they drained the forks they never pumped the cartridge to remove all the oil.  When filling they never pumped it to make sure all the air was removed.

 

Then they are surprised when they used less than 1 litre of oil total when it should have been over 600ml in each fork.  They have no idea how much oil in either fork, but they are not smart enough to know how poor a job they did.  

 

Many other issues with that video.

 

Everything Tenere, who is a member on this site has put up some good videos on his bike and has 2 fork service videos that show good technique and procedures to follow when servicing your forks.

 

 

Excellent information. That's exactly what I needed. Thanks. 

[DT675]

7 hours ago, williestreet said:

It is impossible to set an oil level with the fork fully extended.  

Right.  There is absolutely NO measurement for this.  Not for off road bikes, not road bikes, not race bikes. 

[DT675]

@S.Ga.Rider If your in a pinch or a hurry, or are not yet comfortable with what you need to do to measure for oil level, you can go ahead and just measure what comes out, and put the same amount back in. This is not the “correct” way to do it but it’s good enough for short term. As long as you plan to go back and re-visit them soon. The reason it’s not the full accurate and correct way is that the factory doesn’t always put in the correct amount of oil in the 1st place, and won’t accept for the difference in volume that a different spring will displace with different spring length and/ or diameter Etc. But like I said, it’s sure good enough for awhile to get you by.  A Ratio Rite Measuring Cup works pretty good. 

[S.Ga.Rider]

Got it all installed and went with 7w fork oil at 95mm air space and 4 clicks of preload to get 30% sag where I was completely maxed with the stock spring and was at 35%.   Ive got to say that it rides so much better. The harshness is gone and so is the nose diving. Its definitely a worthwhile investment. 

[williestreet]

3 hours ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

Got it all installed and went with 7w fork oil at 95mm air space and 4 clicks of preload to get 30% sag where I was completely maxed with the stock spring and was at 35%.   Ive got to say that it rides so much better. The harshness is gone and so is the nose diving. Its definitely a worthwhile investment. 

Glad you got it sorted .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by williestreet

[Colddog]

Just did a full comp/rebound/mid valve work over, from ADVrider.com,  Tenere 700 suspension forum. 

When measuring oil level, my outer tube sits below the top of the inner tube when fully collapsed.  I went with the filling by volume, worked to be around 75mm air gap from top of inner tube.  Anyone know why my outer tubes collapse lower than the inner tube?  Did I forget to do something?

[williestreet]

You did nothing wrong, some bikes are just like that.

Do not be confused looking at a picture shown in a service manual.  Those are just standard pics used in several manuals and should not be confused as accurate to your specific bikes forks.  

 

 

[dzieburs]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:54 PM, Hibobb said:

Oil level should be measured from top of inner tube (chromed) or outer tube? When outer tube is compressed all the way down, inner tube sits higher. It's imossible to measure from top of outer tube as manual states.

[Hollybrook]

I have Rally Raid open cartridges and their instructions say to measure with the inner and outer tubes at the same height.

[williestreet]

3 hours ago, dzieburs said:

Oil level should be measured from top of inner tube (chromed) or outer tube? When outer tube is compressed all the way down, inner tube sits higher. It's imossible to measure from top of outer tube as manual states.

As Hollybrook stated measure from the top of the inner tube. 

 

That pic in the manual is just a standard pics used in probably almost every Yamaha service manual. Some bikes will have the outer higher when collapsed, some equal and some the outer is lower like ours.

 

You always measure from the higher tube when fully collapsed.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by williestreet

[Redneckj]

I took off the spring guide as well when I measured the oil level.   I installed Motul 7.5 weight oil because I still have stock valving.