Swap or Stay?

[eddylindenstein]

Pretty disappointed.  I ordered the 85nm Rally Raid spring and did the work of installing it; just did all of the sag measurements..  With 60mm being 30% of the total suspension travel, I needed 5 Clicks with just me in gear and then 24 Clicks was me w/ gear + hard luggage + 25lbs in each pannier.

 

My riding is about 80/20 street to dirt.  Should I see about an exchange or just keep the 85?

[AZJW]

If you ride much with the hard luggage, personally I'd be looking at a 90nm spring.  What weight are you ready to ride?  I'm considered a " lightweight " at 170 lbs plus gear and I end up around 198 with a 90nm working great for me.

[thepointchris]

It's a difficult one to get right without a little specialized knowledge or advice- I was just in the same quandary, my own figuring got me to 85N, but the RR team insisted that 95 was the number for me (200 + gear). I almost changed the order to 90N, and looking at the above, happy I went with what @Ktmmitch  recommended, which was 95. 

FWIW I also ordered STOLTEC Fork Springs, same time  and was happy to take the advice!

 

[witgen]

5 hours ago, eddylindenstein said:

Pretty disappointed.  I ordered the 85nm Rally Raid spring and did the work of installing it; just did all of the sag measurements..  With 60mm being 30% of the total suspension travel, I needed 5 Clicks with just me in gear and then 24 Clicks was me w/ gear + hard luggage + 25lbs in each pannier.

 

My riding is about 80/20 street to dirt.  Should I see about an exchange or just keep the 85?

I think the most important thing to ask is how do you do most of your most challenging riding or your riding in general. With or without panniers?

 

There are three ways to optimize your springs:

1. Tune them to work perfectly without panniers and accept that you won't have springs that are optimal under heavy load.

2. Find a compromise in between. This will mean that springs are sub optimal in both cases, but still work adequately on both.

3. Tune them to work perfectly with panniers/load. Without panniers springs will be too hard and you won't be able to adjust the sag correctly. 

 

I aimed to number 2. No preload and I still can't get sag right with basic gear and nothing extra. With all my travelling gear on, still not optimal, but manageable. If 90% of my riding would be with with heavy load I'd go for 3. If most of my riding would be without heavy gear I'd go with 1. But my driving is about 50/50 so I'll try to find a compromise. There just isn't a spring rate that could handle both cases perfectly. 

[eddylindenstein]

6 hours ago, witgen said:

I think the most important thing to ask is how do you do most of your most challenging riding or your riding in general. With or without panniers?

 

There are three ways to optimize your springs:

1. Tune them to work perfectly without panniers and accept that you won't have springs that are optimal under heavy load.

2. Find a compromise in between. This will mean that springs are sub optimal in both cases, but still work adequately on both.

3. Tune them to work perfectly with panniers/load. Without panniers springs will be too hard and you won't be able to adjust the sag correctly. 

 

I aimed to number 2. No preload and I still can't get sag right with basic gear and nothing extra. With all my travelling gear on, still not optimal, but manageable. If 90% of my riding would be with with heavy load I'd go for 3. If most of my riding would be without heavy gear I'd go with 1. But my driving is about 50/50 so I'll try to find a compromise. There just isn't a spring rate that could handle both cases perfectly. 

Yeah this is great advice.  After sleeping on it I think this is more my thought now - the 90nm I think would be too stiff.  The 85 even feels close to being too stiff, but I only have about 10 miles on it.  Plan is to get in a few hundred miles this weekend and I'll have a better idea.

[Terez]

Post your weight and other specs when looking for spring advice

 

altho either way ....sag tells the tell....moreso than your butt o meter

 

especially with linear springs

 

most weighing 85~95 kg naked need a 90n to get proper sag with minimal preload

 

this topic is well documented and beaten up....but the basic premise...especially with a bike you may load with gear and or ride in varying terrain .....spring for minimal sag using as lil to zero preload

 

This gets you 2 important things

 

lil to no preload on any given spring is ideal as preload simply keepa thw spring from initially moving ....which prevents the spring and shock from initially doing their job at absorbing energy....even filtering the very subtle small movements 

 

2ndly retaining as much preload adjustment envelope to adjust for gear is beneficial

 

also dont forget ....the shock valving is designed to work in various portions of the stroke....the initial shock  valving is soft and compliant in the upper stroke to absorb the intial small chatter and irregularities....and gets firmer as the stroke is blown thru to absorb the bigger hits and resist bottoming 

 

This is one of the reasons why sag is so important ....if sag is excessive the bike will feel harsh as it is starting off moving past the initial valving intended 

This is also why the inverse is true of a stiffer sprung bike being plusher/more compliant than an undersprung bike....as long as ideal sag is possible

 

lastly....new springs will take an initial set so ag numbers will increase as will the feel of the spring so dont immediately pass judgement till the bike is rode in with new springs ....doesnt take too long and doesnt change once set in

 

lastly....a lot of riders will play with clickers before springing correctly....and once sprung right they are often out to lunch with settings

 

spring 1st....trust the sag numbers....break in the springs quickly.....then pursue clicker adjustment approaching from the minimal side of things

 

[thepointchris]

50 minutes ago, Terez said:

Post your weight and other specs when looking for spring advice

 

altho either way ....sag tells the tell....moreso than your butt o meter

 

especially with linear springs

 

most weighing 85~95 kg naked need a 90n to get proper sag with minimal preload

 

this topic is well documented and beaten up....but the basic premise...especially with a bike you may load with gear and or ride in varying terrain .....spring for minimal sag using as lil to zero preload

 

This gets you 2 important things

 

lil to no preload on any given spring is ideal as preload simply keepa thw spring from initially moving ....which prevents the spring and shock from initially doing their job at absorbing energy....even filtering the very subtle small movements 

 

2ndly retaining as much preload adjustment envelope to adjust for gear is beneficial

 

also dont forget ....the shock valving is designed to work in various portions of the stroke....the initial shock  valving is soft and compliant in the upper stroke to absorb the intial small chatter and irregularities....and gets firmer as the stroke is blown thru to absorb the bigger hits and resist bottoming 

 

This is one of the reasons why sag is so important ....if sag is excessive the bike will feel harsh as it is starting off moving past the initial valving intended 

This is also why the inverse is true of a stiffer sprung bike being plusher/more compliant than an undersprung bike....as long as ideal sag is possible

 

lastly....new springs will take an initial set so ag numbers will increase as will the feel of the spring so dont immediately pass judgement till the bike is rode in with new springs ....doesnt take too long and doesnt change once set in

 

lastly....a lot of riders will play with clickers before springing correctly....and once sprung right they are often out to lunch with settings

 

spring 1st....trust the sag numbers....break in the springs quickly.....then pursue clicker adjustment approaching from the minimal side of things

 

nicely summarized 

[TexasT700]

I did the trial and error method also! At about 235 pounds ready to ride n top case on bike, I figgered 85nm about right. Still had to crank up preload a LOT. Swapped out 85 for a 95 and took only a few clicks to get sag good.

[eddylindenstein]

Took the 85 out yesterday for about 200 miles; 40 of those being dirt roads in the national forest closest to me - the bike was loaded with hard panniers, clothes and some tools.  It performed incredibly - though it was my first time off road with the T7 so it might have performed like that before the spring change, too.