Head bearing damaged after jumps.

[Bartek]

So my head race bearing looks like that:

 

 

Its my first adventure / dual sport bike in 28 years of riding that couldn't stand jumps.

Admittedly jumps were rather high for 200kg bike, but springs were uprated and bike bottomed out only couple of times.

That was the doomed filght :

 

Lesson is - stock suspension travel is not enough to jump, and even uprated springs are not enough to stop it from bottoming. It's just not enough travel.

Now after replacing those bearings and seeing their size and knowing they also fit standard road bikes i lost my trust to tenere as being capable of even average abuse offroad.

We all have seen those videos from Pol Tarres, but if you think stock tenere is capable of doing even half of it you will learn the hard way.

Yamaha is not "ready to race" as other ADV bikes are - and half measures like replacing springs and valves are not enough - i keep learning this over last two years  

 

[Hibobb]

True, for you and Pol Tarres, but I bet I can ride for a hundred and twenty seven thousand years and never have head bearing issues (if I keep them greased)....

 

Side note:

My old Honda ST1100 had "notchy" feeling head bearings after 50,000 mile. They were "Ball" bearing design, and I replaced them with "Roller" bearings. Surprisingly, Honda had kind'a went cheap...

[SO_Rider]

Is the T7 advertised as "ready to race"? If so, that has never been my expectation. I applaud you for the balls to jump the T7 like that, but I'm pretty certain that 99% of the folks on this forum won't. I've had my 2022 for 6 months and have about 3k on it, mostly backroads and some moderate trails in the mountains of Oregon. So far the bike has exceeded my expectations. Admittedly the bike is under sprung from the factory. I've done some suspension upgrades - heavier springs/valving, and it has made a world of difference. And I still wouldn't expect that it would take the hit in your photo.  Keep the rubber side down!  

[Tenerider]

When bikes are "ready to race", it still doesn't mean they'd also finish the race

 

Yesterday, a buddy of mine (really good MX guy who has won a lot of races) took a ride on my bike and put her to the test on a local MX / Enduro track.

He had a big smile on his face, and said (quote): "forget about adventure bike, this is a true sports bike!" (referring to enduro sports). He was faster than his buddies on real hard enduro bikes.

Springs were too soft for his jumps, but now I'll definitely have a look (or feel) at my head bearing

 

P.S. I couldn't watch him doing jumps, but the other guys on the track told me he did. But those were small MX doubles/tables (not into flat as in @Bartek 's picture).

Edited September 4, 2022 by Tenerider

[Hibobb]

Jumping an Adventure bike is always questionable (Think sack of potatoes). And as far as undersprung, all bikes from the factory are undersprung here in the USA, as us manly men are very "robust". Now if a bunch of sumo wrestlers engineered a bike.... , THEN you would get a bike!!!

Edited September 4, 2022 by Hibobb

[katana]

 

It jumps just fine.  It lands OK.  It shouldn't eat steering bearings unless they were loose, dry or worn already.

[Hibobb]

7 hours ago, katana said:

It jumps just fine

@Katana, You... a 130 pound guy flying thru the air make it look so graceful!

 

Seldom do people post pictures of 200+ pound beasty fellas actually landing a T7... suspension fully compressed, tires flattened out, chest almost impacting the crossbar, a scars in the earth from the meteor-like impact.... 

[katana]

@Hibobb I fight at 165 pounds and ride at 190 with 2l of water and 2 Red Bulls in the bag.

 

What you describe is a crash, not a jump.  The Gopro better be on.   Momentum is your friend.

 

[katana]

https://youtu.be/9yrv_AeU0rI

[katana]

Forgot to add text...  Stock standard never adjusted suspension settings, except preload rear.  No bottoming out...

[CoreCass]

normally i dont respond to threads like these. as i think its weird as 1 jump wont cause that. that what you see there cant happen with just jumps.

i have jumped it and i know loads of people that laugh at this kind of topic as thy do jump as well. [i know one that thinks its a big enduro and takes it on motorcross tracks]

its all about maintenance.

 

i have had 50 kilo's of baggage on a trip including my 110 kilo. without riding gear.  [beginner mistake to take to much luggage. could do it wit 20 now]

drive for fun and i can tell you that i have not even had to replace my head baring [44000 km. fun meaning i take every jump] 

if you feel pitting you should replace. is there play you need to replace.  this is way past that point.

think of it. it needs to eat trough the entire wall before you get what you have.

[Hibobb]

@katana

 

 

 

[Ray Ride4life]

2 hours ago, Hibobb said:

Seldom do people post pictures of 200+ pound beasty fellas actually landing a T7

 

[Ray Ride4life]

Oh yeah, that's with the Touratech WTE Extreme suspension.

[katana]

2 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Oh yeah, that's with the Touratech WTE Extreme suspension.

Can you show that at real speed for interest?

[Ray Ride4life]

1 minute ago, katana said:

Can you show that at real speed for interest?

Sorry, that's on a training and the instructor took this video. Only from the bike it's in real speed from my helmet camera.

[jdub53]

My $.02 worth...

 

Tapered roller bearings like these steering head bearings require a proper preload setting. Not enough (or any) preload is when the races become notched even under normal road use.

 

Four bikes I've bought used had indented/notched tapered roller steering head bearings (two of them street bikes) which I immediately changed out. I found my T7's steering head bearings slightly loose when I bought it with 3,400 miles, but fortunately no damage yet and I set the proper preload. On all of these bikes I detected the indented and/or loose bearings by feel (either while riding or on a stand with the forks off the ground), no disassembly required to ascertain their condition. This is a maintenance issue, plain and simple.

 

All of the aircraft I ever worked on used tapered roller bearings in their landing gear wheels, and they were all preloaded to spec when installing. There's a reason the wheel bearing races on multi-ton aircraft don't indent/notch when the aircraft lands heavily on the runway going 160 knots while the wheel isn't yet spinning. 

 

Steering head bearing race I removed from a DR650 I'd bought used from the original owner with 18k miles, and this bike had only seen road use. I knew the bearings were bad when I test rode the bike at a walking speed and the front end wandered back and forth, and I found almost no preload on them.  

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by jdub53
Added pic

[electric_monk]

12 hours ago, jdub53 said:

My $.02 worth...

 

Tapered roller bearings like these steering head bearings require a proper preload setting. Not enough (or any) preload is when the races become notched even under normal road use.

 

Four bikes I've bought used had indented/notched tapered roller steering head bearings (two of them street bikes) which I immediately changed out. I found my T7's steering head bearings slightly loose when I bought it with 3,400 miles, but fortunately no damage yet and I set the proper preload. On all of these bikes I detected the indented and/or loose bearings by feel (either while riding or on a stand with the forks off the ground), no disassembly required to ascertain their condition. This is a maintenance issue, plain and simple.

 

All of the aircraft I ever worked on used tapered roller bearings in their landing gear wheels, and they were all preloaded to spec when installing. There's a reason the wheel bearing races on multi-ton aircraft don't indent/notch when the aircraft lands heavily on the runway going 160 knots while the wheel isn't yet spinning. 

 

Steering head bearing race I removed from a DR650 I'd bought used from the original owner with 18k miles, and this bike had only seen road use. I knew the bearings were bad when I test road the bike at a walking speed and the front end wandered back and forth, and I found almost no preload on them.  

 

Would you mind explaining how to set/measure the preload on the bearings?

[Takata]

14 hours ago, Ray Ride4life said:

 

Hehe I see Albert Oosting over there

[Ray Ride4life]

2 hours ago, Takata said:

Hehe I see Albert Oosting over there

Correct, i did all 3 levels with him.

The weekend after the upcoming i will see him again at Discover Overland where he does a workshop first aid on the trail.

[jdub53]

4 hours ago, electric_monk said:

Would you mind explaining how to set/measure the preload on the bearings?

 

From the OEM's T7 Shop Manual; Periodic Maintenance, p. 3-2, item 14, the steering bearings are to be checked for looseness at 600 miles and then at every 6,000 miles. Screen prints provided below (sorry if these are unreadable, but I don't know how else to embed pdf pages into a post).

 

  

 

The adjustment procedure is on pp. 3-19 & 3-20 in the shop manual.

 

 

 

 

Although I followed the T7 manual's bearing tightening procedure, I still follow the procedures I was taught 39 years ago by a very experienced BMW mechanic for checking looseness/proper adjustment and determining if the bearings are already damaged. This has served me well on every motorcycle I've owned since that time (not applicable to BMW Telelever bikes though). Disclaimer: These are the procedures I use and assume no liability or responsibility for anyone else attempting to use these procedures.

 

Static check:

For preload - With the bike's front end clear of the ground (front end complete with wheel/tire/brakes, etc.), if the bars/forks fall fast and effortlessly all the way to the stop on either side the bearings are too loose. Properly preloaded bearings should fall to either side more slowly, and if they fully stop on their own during the sideward fall the bearing preload is too much. Subtle but noticeable differences.

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - With the bike's front end clear of the ground, if bad enough the damage may be felt as light notchiness when moving the bars back and forth.  

 

Dynamic check:

For preload - While riding on a straight, level and smooth road at about 40 mph, take your hands off the bars and as the bike begins decelerating punch one end of the handlebars. With properly preloaded steering head bearings the front end will immediately stabilize and continue straight. If the bearings are loose the front end will begin to oscillate and not stabilize - Warning: This could progress to a tank slapper and it should go without saying but KEEP YOUR HANDS NEAR THE GRIPS THE ENTIRE TIME AND THEN GRAB THE BARS AGAIN. 

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - While riding at a parking lot/walking pace and with your hands lightly on the grips, on a smooth, level hard surface the front end should track perfectly straight. If the bearings are damaged, the front end will 'hunt' slightly back and forth as the rollers pass back and forth over the indentations in the races. 

 

When setting steering head bearing preload on many bikes, beware that when the proper tension is reached (raised front end falls slowly to either side), tightening the lock nut on top of the adjustment nut can alter the tension so be sure and recheck for proper tension then and readjust if necessary. Tiny movements of the adjuster nut make the difference between too loose, correct and too tight.

 

Hope this helps.   

Edited September 6, 2022 by jdub53
Added clarifications

[electric_monk]

46 minutes ago, jdub53 said:

 

From the OEM's T7 Shop Manual; Periodic Maintenance, p. 3-2, item 14, the steering bearings are to be checked for looseness at 600 miles and then at every 6,000 miles. Screen prints provided below (sorry if these are unreadable, but I don't know how else to embed pdf pages into a post).

 

  

 

The adjustment procedure is on pp. 3-19 & 3-20 in the shop manual.

 

 

 

 

Although I followed the T7 manual's bearing tightening procedure, I still follow the procedures I was taught 39 years ago by a very experienced BMW mechanic for checking looseness/proper adjustment and determining if the bearings are already damaged. This has served me well on every motorcycle I've owned since that time (not applicable to BMW Telelever bikes though). Disclaimer: These are the procedures I use and assume no liability or responsibility for anyone else attempting to use these procedures.

 

Static check:

For preload - With the bike's front end clear of the ground (front end complete with wheel/tire/brakes, etc.), if the bars/forks fall fast and effortlessly to either side the bearings are too loose. Properly preloaded bearings should fall to either side more slowly, and if they fully stop during the sideward fall the bearing preload is too much. Subtle but noticeable differences.

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - With the bike's front end clear of the ground, if bad enough the damage may be felt as light notchiness when moving the bars back and forth.  

 

Dynamic check:

For preload - While riding on a straight, level and smooth road at about 40 mph, take your hands off the bars and as the bike begins decelerating punch one end of the handlebars. With properly preloaded steering head bearings the front end will immediately stabilize and continue straight. If the bearings are loose the front end will begin to oscillate and not stabilize - Warning: This could progress to a tank slapper and it should go without saying but KEEP YOUR HANDS NEAR THE GRIPS THE ENTIRE TIME AND THEN GRAB THE BARS AGAIN. 

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - While riding at a parking lot/walking pace and with your hands lightly on the grips, on a smooth, level hard surface the front end should track perfectly straight. If the bearings are damaged, the front end will 'hunt' slightly back and forth as the rollers pass back and forth over the indentations in the races. 

 

When setting steering head bearing preload on many bikes, beware that when the proper tension is reached (raised front end falls slowly to either side), tightening the lock nut on top of the adjustment nut can alter the tension so be sure and recheck for proper tension then and readjust if necessary. Tiny movements of the adjuster nut make the difference between too loose, correct and too tight.

 

Hope this helps.   

Thanks for that, I have a printed copy of the workshop manual and will give that section a good read tonight...should really have had a look at that first....

[AZJW]

2 hours ago, jdub53 said:

 

From the OEM's T7 Shop Manual; Periodic Maintenance, p. 3-2, item 14, the steering bearings are to be checked for looseness at 600 miles and then at every 6,000 miles. Screen prints provided below (sorry if these are unreadable, but I don't know how else to embed pdf pages into a post).

 

  

 

The adjustment procedure is on pp. 3-19 & 3-20 in the shop manual.

 

 

 

 

Although I followed the T7 manual's bearing tightening procedure, I still follow the procedures I was taught 39 years ago by a very experienced BMW mechanic for checking looseness/proper adjustment and determining if the bearings are already damaged. This has served me well on every motorcycle I've owned since that time (not applicable to BMW Telelever bikes though). Disclaimer: These are the procedures I use and assume no liability or responsibility for anyone else attempting to use these procedures.

 

Static check:

For preload - With the bike's front end clear of the ground (front end complete with wheel/tire/brakes, etc.), if the bars/forks fall fast and effortlessly all the way to the stop on either side the bearings are too loose. Properly preloaded bearings should fall to either side more slowly, and if they fully stop on their own during the sideward fall the bearing preload is too much. Subtle but noticeable differences.

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - With the bike's front end clear of the ground, if bad enough the damage may be felt as light notchiness when moving the bars back and forth.  

 

Dynamic check:

For preload - While riding on a straight, level and smooth road at about 40 mph, take your hands off the bars and as the bike begins decelerating punch one end of the handlebars. With properly preloaded steering head bearings the front end will immediately stabilize and continue straight. If the bearings are loose the front end will begin to oscillate and not stabilize - Warning: This could progress to a tank slapper and it should go without saying but KEEP YOUR HANDS NEAR THE GRIPS THE ENTIRE TIME AND THEN GRAB THE BARS AGAIN. 

 

For damaged/indented/notched races - While riding at a parking lot/walking pace and with your hands lightly on the grips, on a smooth, level hard surface the front end should track perfectly straight. If the bearings are damaged, the front end will 'hunt' slightly back and forth as the rollers pass back and forth over the indentations in the races. 

 

When setting steering head bearing preload on many bikes, beware that when the proper tension is reached (raised front end falls slowly to either side), tightening the lock nut on top of the adjustment nut can alter the tension so be sure and recheck for proper tension then and readjust if necessary. Tiny movements of the adjuster nut make the difference between too loose, correct and too tight.

 

Hope this helps.   

Great writeup.  Saved as a new Tech Tip.

[DT675]

Yep, steering head bearings probably don't have proper preload as mentioned.  Just like the swing arm bearings and linkage pivots, steering head bearings should be gone through right after a new bike purchase. (grease checked and preload) 

 

As far as the preload itself, I agree with the procedure above 99% with the only exception being I tighten the preload just to the point the handlebars won't fall to the stop by itself at all. (which the above procedure would suggest is slightly tight)  I find after the bike is adjusted and you get out and ride, they will loosen just slightly to a perfect preload.  I've done this on all my bikes, race bikes included, with tens of thousands of miles and not one single issue.

Edited September 6, 2022 by DT675