Suspension Upgrades For Heavy Riders

[SCORPiON5150]

I'm a fairly heavy guy interested in upgrading the suspension on my T700, looking to see what experiences anyone has had with setting up these bikes for a relatively heavy rider. I've found SOME info but not a lot. I was originally torn between Ohlins & Rally Raid, leaning toward Rally Raid. But it seems like their available / recommended spring rates are very low vs what I'd expect for my weight. I tried reaching out to RR for guidance several days ago & it seems that they aren't going to respond. Lack of customer service is very off-putting to me when looking at spending a good amount of money on that company's products..... So now I'm leaning back towards Ohlins as a result.

 

Some info about myself & what I'm looking for out of the bike:

 

With the additional parts on my bike + my weight & riding gear, I need the bike's preload set up for around 285-310lb (130-140kg). When I am camping/travelling & carrying full luggage, there's an additional 40-50lb (18-23kg) added solely to the rear. I ride a good amount of off road & for those who have seen the MAD Tv videos about the Rally Raid suspension, their usage & skill level is basically spot on what I want out of my setup. Ideally, I would like a rear shock with an external preload adjuster I could turn up for the times I'm carrying luggage. I do not carry any passengers.

 

My concerns & what I reached out to RR about:

 

The Ohlins offerings seem to be available with very heavy spring rates that at least one vendor is saying are suitable for up to 350lb (159kg) rider. RR on the other hand, not so much the case, unless there's something else going on with their system I'm unaware of that allows much lower spring rates perhaps.. I am interested in the open cartridge fork kit (not the closed) & appears that 6,4 springs are the heaviest RR offers. Also appears that perhaps even those are unavailable currently, as you can only select 5,6 spring currently on the drop down menu.  I am also interested in the Adventure shock specifically, as it has the hydraulic preload adjuster I'm looking for. Spring rates are limited to 90Nm. 95Nm is available for the Extreme shock, but then there's no preload adjuster.

 

So what I need to know about RR offerings is, with heaviest springs, largest available fork preload spacers ,& adventure shock with preload cranked to max setting, what weight rider can be supported? Is there some abnormal reason the RR setup would allow for a rider my weight to use their lighter springs? I find it odd they are so limited on options in all honesty, but I'm sure there's a reason.

 

With mentioned max springs, RR claims weight ratings of 95kg+ for OC fork kit, 105kg+ for Adventure shock, & Extreme shock says rider OVER 115kg, with passenger and/or 30kg luggage." Wording is just barely confusing enough that I'm uncertain if that's 115kg INCLUDING passenger or luggage, or if that's basically to be read as 145kg+ max weight.

 

 

Aside from that, I've struggled to find much info about the Ohlins, how it performs, or comparisons of any sort. I'm uncertain if I should go that route, give RR another week to respond, or start looking at other options all together. What would YOU do? Thanks!

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by SCORPiON5150

[PNGL]

I'm poor, so I can't speak to all of the cartridge inserts, re-valving, and changing shocks.... yet. However, I did switch to the 6.9 front and 95N rear springs from K-Tech. I should probably preface with the fact that I'm 280lb in my birthday suit, so definitely 300 or more with riding pants, jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, etc.
With the springs swapped, I have very minimal brake dive now and almost never bottom out. I can still bottom out, but I have to get a good 2.5-3ft off the ground first. While I do like to jump my bike, I am too fat, too slow to heal, and too dependent on a fully functional body to try going any higher than that. Also, keep in mind that I've not messed with tuning yet. I definitely need to, however, because my rear is a bit bouncy now coming off of bigger dips and the front is a bit harsh over smaller high-speed stuff. Honestly, I've just been lazy and haven't wanted to mess with it, but I will soon. If I'll remember to after messing with it, I'll update on how well the stock dampening is able to cope with the MUCH stronger springs...
I will also say that there is basically zero sag in the front without me on it and only a little bit with. No preload added, they are just really stiff springs.

[Jesse]

I put  TOURATECH PROGRESSIVE FORK SPRINGS and  TOURATECH EXPLORE HP REAR SHOCK W/ PDS.  I'm happy with the way the bike is set up.   Geared up I'm 260lb I have the bike set up with crash bars, skid plate, rear pannier rack and soft bag  and tank bag. 

 

[SCORPiON5150]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I put  TOURATECH PROGRESSIVE FORK SPRINGS and  TOURATECH EXPLORE HP REAR SHOCK W/ PDS.  I'm happy with the way the bike is set up.   Geared up I'm 260lb I have the bike set up with crash bars, skid plate, rear pannier rack and soft bag  and tank bag. 

 

Thank you. Sounds like our overall weight is likely similar. Do you know what weight springs you're running by chance?

[SCORPiON5150]

2 hours ago, PNGL said:

I'm poor, so I can't speak to all of the cartridge inserts, re-valving, and changing shocks.... yet. However, I did switch to the 6.9 front and 95N rear springs from K-Tech. I should probably preface with the fact that I'm 280lb in my birthday suit, so definitely 300 or more with riding pants, jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, etc.
With the springs swapped, I have very minimal brake dive now and almost never bottom out. I can still bottom out, but I have to get a good 2.5-3ft off the ground first. While I do like to jump my bike, I am too fat, too slow to heal, and too dependent on a fully functional body to try going any higher than that. Also, keep in mind that I've not messed with tuning yet. I definitely need to, however, because my rear is a bit bouncy now coming off of bigger dips and the front is a bit harsh over smaller high-speed stuff. Honestly, I've just been lazy and haven't wanted to mess with it, but I will soon. If I'll remember to after messing with it, I'll update on how well the stock dampening is able to cope with the MUCH stronger springs...
I will also say that there is basically zero sag in the front without me on it and only a little bit with. No preload added, they are just really stiff springs.

Thinking I probably need those same springs or maybe a 6,7 in the front. I'm tempted to try just some springs but know I'll ultimately just be getting suspension reworked/replaced regardless so buy once cry once for me, I suppose. Thanks for the input on your setup!

[Jesse]

I don't remember the spring numbers,  I filled out a rider profile when ordering from Touratech they ask weight, riding style, aftermarket add-ons etc.  then they send out spring rates based on that information. 

[Hollybrook]

I have always received a response to forum private messages sent to @Ktmmitch though he is busy and sometimes it takes a few days. 

 

FWIW I have Rally Raid open cartridge forks with 6.4Nm springs and the extreme shock with 90Nm springs.  This seemed a bit lighter than many of the suspension threads would indicate, but after riding it, I think it's spot on. 

 

They were a bit stiff at first but either they softened up or I adjusted to them. I haven't done much jumping with them yet but would not hesitate.  They soak up bumps and maintain wheel contact with the ground MUCH better than the stock suspension could.   I weigh about 235 in riding gear and have lots of preload available for luggage. 

[SCORPiON5150]

27 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

I have always received a response to forum private messages sent to @Ktmmitch though he is busy and sometimes it takes a few days. 

 

FWIW I have Rally Raid open cartridge forks with 6.4Nm springs and the extreme shock with 90Nm springs.  This seemed a bit lighter than many of the suspension threads would indicate, but after riding it, I think it's spot on. 

 

They were a bit stiff at first but either they softened up or I adjusted to them. I haven't done much jumping with them yet but would not hesitate.  They soak up bumps and maintain wheel contact with the ground MUCH better than the stock suspension could.   I weigh about 235 in riding gear and have lots of preload available for luggage. 

Thank you for the feedback. The RR stuff from everything I've read & seen online sound like exactly what I'm after.. But I do still wonder how the Ohlins compares, but seems to be pretty limited info on in online.

[SCORPiON5150]

John at RR got back to me this morning. He recommended the extreme shock with 95 spring & verified 6,4 is the heaviest fork spring RR offers. John basically said I'll be fine weight wise since there's so much adjustability with the kits.

 

I also heard back from an Ohlins dealer & turns out they DON'T offer springs above 9,0 for rear. They do however have a broad range of springs available for the front.

 

Ohlins is suggesting 7,0 front springs under 1mm preload & 9.0 rear for my weight (119-140kg/285-310lb in gear & accounting for extra bits on my bike).

 

Still torn.. Ohlins 90 rear spring seems a touch light, especially for when I add luggage. Ohlins 7,0 front + 1mm preload also seems maybe a touch stiff. On the other hand, RR front 6,4 springs seems awfully light for my weight.

 

I'm no suspension expert by any stretch but seems like it would be better to have a heavier spring with less preload on it to start with.

 

What to do? Lol. Still close to square one really far as trying to decide. 

[Firebolter]

I used race tech springs for my weight (from and back) and the bike is now awesome. The stock Kayaba stuff is pretty decent once sprung and set correctly. Before you go drop a bunch of coin for shocks and valve kits, try just the correct springs. They work-If you are not riding the bike at a pro level, spending thousands on a suspension upgrade is a waste IMO.

[thepointchris]

+1 for making sure Springs/Rider Sag is correct. Big improvements all around- high speed stability, fully loaded performance, as well as having meaningful adjustments on your clickers, F & R.

[SCORPiON5150]

I definitely considered doing just a spring upgrade. After lots of reading & contemplating, I decided I probably would still want a little more, & didn't want to risk the possibility of a $500+ investment (with labor unless I tackled it myself) into springs ultimately being a waste if/when I ended up just stepping up to Ohlins, RR, etc stuff later anyway. Buy once, cry once is the old saying I guess...

 

I bit the bullet & ordered the full Ohlins setup yesterday & am having 7,0 & 9.0 springs equipped. I have no doubts the RR stuff is great & I'd probably be happy with it too, long as the front spring rates worked out...

 

But in the end, I started to think to myself, in over 30 yrs of riding all different styles of bikes being my primary hobby, being around countless riders, reading countless reviews, comments, videos, etc, etc, as well as my own experiences with quite a few bikes as well, I can't recall anyone ever ONCE saying they didn't like or weren't really happy with their Ohlins stuff,  or say they regret their purchase. I'm sure there are people out there.... But the fact I've never encountered a dissatisfied Ohlins customer over the years says a lot regarding the general quality of their offerings. I'd like to think the T700 will be no different & a noticeable upgrade over the stock KYB stuff. 

 

Likely will be several months as my stuff is coming out of Italy & will take time to set up, dial in, test, etc but I'll probably post a review at some point, since there seems to be so little info or rider review out there about the Ohlins offerings for the T700.

Edited October 18, 2022 by SCORPiON5150

[BigTex]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:00 AM, Firebolter said:

I used race tech springs for my weight (from and back) and the bike is now awesome. The stock Kayaba stuff is pretty decent once sprung and set correctly. Before you go drop a bunch of coin for shocks and valve kits, try just the correct springs. They work-If you are not riding the bike at a pro level, spending thousands on a suspension upgrade is a waste IMO.

 

I just installed RaceTech springs front and rear and the rear spring was about a 1/2" shorter than stock.  I had to use all my pre-load just to get the bike to the stock height.  I contacted RaceTech and they are looking in to it.  The tech said the spec sheet they have on file was wrong so I'm not sure what I'm going to do now.  I'm about the same weight and setup as OP Scorpion.  Since the stock shock has 10mm of pre-load ability, I think I'll just slap a 10mm spacer in and call it done for a while but the idea of a full Ohlins set up is starting to creep in.  

[Uncle M]

@BigTex Rally Raid springs come in the correct length for the OEM shock, up to a 95 Nm version rated for "Rider(up to 105kg, inc clothing) with passenger and/or 30kg luggage".

[BigTex]

@Uncle MThank you, I’m over the 105kg. So I’m not sure how well that would work without me having to max out my preload. 

[Uncle M]

@BigTex Try reaching out to Rally Raid ( @Ktmmitch on this site or email info@rally-raidproducts.co.uk) to confirm whether the 95 spring would work for you. The way I read what I quoted above from RR's website is that the 95Nm spring works for total weight of 105 kg rider plus luggage or pillion, so it should work for a rider greater than 105 kg without a pillion. Anyway, worth contacting them so there's no question.

Note I have no connection to Rally Raid other than being a satisfied customer (open cartridge kit and 90Nm shock spring).

Edited November 24, 2022 by Uncle M

[Hollybrook]

I weigh 105kg and have correct sag with a 90Nm Rally Raid spring and their shock with minimal preload. 

[JB700]

12 hours ago, BigTex said:

 

I just installed RaceTech springs front and rear and the rear spring was about a 1/2" shorter than stock.  I had to use all my pre-load just to get the bike to the stock height.  I contacted RaceTech and they are looking in to it.  The tech said the spec sheet they have on file was wrong so I'm not sure what I'm going to do now.  I'm about the same weight and setup as OP Scorpion. 

Since the stock shock has 10mm of pre-load ability, I think I'll just slap a 10mm spacer in and call it done for a while but the idea of a full Ohlins set up is starting to creep in.  

What are your Ohlins thoughts?

Please tell us more, are the Ohlins rear shock and cartridge inserts better?

[BigTex]

I don’t have the ohlins set up. I’m interested in hearing the OP @SCORPiON5150 impressions of their ohlins setup thought. 

[JB700]

28 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I don’t have the ohlins set up. I’m interested in hearing the OP @SCORPiON5150 impressions of their ohlins setup thought. 

Yep

Scorpion's impressions would be good

[SCORPiON5150]

1 hour ago, JB700 said:

Yep

Scorpion's impressions would be good

I've received my Ohlins stuff, but had an issue creating significant further delay.

 

The distributor I ordered from sent the wrong springs for the front & I actually had up file disputes with my credit card & PayPal, as the Italians aren't responding at all far as making the order right.

 

Anyway, so I ordered the correct springs direct from Ohlins but they're still 2-3 weeks away currently. I also had a couple lengthy conversations with Jerry @ Ohlins concerning spring rates for heavier riders like myself.

 

Ohlins seems to have slightly different recommended spring rates regarding to rider weight, vs RR stuff but not too far out. I also am well beyond the weight they can provide tried & tested recommendations as well.

 

I'll be running the heaviest rear spring available @ 9.0 & starting at 7,5 for the front. As a side note, the FKA 114 cartridge kit instructions only show up to 7,0 springs but apparently there's several compatible options above those.

 

That all said, hopefully within the next month or so due to the delays, I'll be back to post my thoughts after running the setup a little. If anyone has questions related to my discussions with Jerry @ Ohlins, I'm also happy to share. 

 

[BigTex]

Sorry to hear about the mixup on the springs. I’m very interested to hear more about your conversation with Olins and eventually your impressions. 
 

[powder]

Ohlins is not the company it used to be, specially under Tenneco ownership. They also have many lines of products and people just think its all the same quality as the stuff MotoGP uses. Good thing is, it has many distributors around the world and it's easily accessible.

 

The STX46 shock  is what most people buy for the Tenere which doesn't have Low/High speed regulation unlike much of the competition. They have the top line TTX shock available but it's not so easy to get your hand on it. 

[JB700]

11 minutes ago, powder said:

Ohlins is not the company it used to be, specially under Tenneco ownership. They also have many lines of products and people just think its all the same quality as the stuff MotoGP uses. Good thing is, it has many distributors around the world and it's easily accessible.

 

The STX46 shock  is what most people buy for the Tenere which doesn't have Low/High speed regulation unlike much of the competition. They have the top line TTX shock available but it's not so easy to get your hand on it. 

This one...

YA 818 - Motorcycle - Shock absorber - Yamaha - Ténéré 700 | Öhlins

---

Product. Öhlins Racing has been an integrated part of the motorsport industry as well as the motorcycle and automotive industry for 40 years.

 

[SCORPiON5150]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:59 AM, JB700 said:

Yep

Scorpion's impressions would be good

My apologies to anyone following this thread awaiting my impressions or thoughts on the Ohlins bits. I haven't revisited this for awhile, due to lengthy delays caused by the vendor, as mentioned previously.

 

That said, everything is installed & set up correctly now, & I'm very happy with everything - it performs fantastic. Rather than reposting a bunch of stuff I just wrote in another thread about it, I'll direct anyone interested to that thread if they'd like to read more about my impressions or specifics: