Thought on unbranded equipment?

[MoroboshiDan]

Hi lads and lassie,

Like the topic, I want to know what's your opinion regarding off-brand or unbranded equipment like crash bars, lowering links, windshield etc. They're usually from China and is sold for almost 1/3 the price of known brand. Personally I feel like the known brand like Givi etc can charge you that much is just because they're well known, the quality is roughly the same. I know I'm a cheap skate, but I'm trying to save some bucks where I can. Lowering links and crash bars etc, I've found them selling below $100usd on ebay and Amazon, have anyone have any experience using them? Just want to know what's your opinion on them.

Thanks.

[BikeBrother]

Not my cup of tea. I red many times it just dont fit, need to make adjustments to get it right. I hate that. I prefer to pay extra for good and honest work. 

[Tenerider]

No way I'm going to put anything on my bike made by guys who can't even copy stuff decently.

 

Most parts are in some way safety relevant. I have seen enough reports on crappy chinese aluminum parts, for example.

 

Plus, I'm just not going to support people stealing decent companies' ideas.

[S.Ga.Rider]

Ive bought a few parts like that and I have had good luck. I dont buy anything thats detrimental like footpegs or anything that can cause issues if it breaks. I get thing like my gps mount that came from aliexpress and has been great. Its carried my tomtom for around 8k miles without issue. Normally if you ask that question, you will be given a hard time. 

[Ray Ride4life]

I'll always try to look for something in the middle.
Chinese is often crap, you can get lucky but if you are and you recommend it the next guy can have crap buying the exact same product at the same reseller.
Lot of brands let you pay for the name like Pazzo.
Original products are more expensive because the costs of development need the be paid through the product too like the patents to keep the product earning you money instead of other company's but the Chinese don't care about that.
That's another way for the Chinese to be cheap, copy paste and produce them with inferior materials by underpaid workers.
The middle is good products by people who care trying to make a living instead of becoming millionaires.

Edit: i do buy Chinese stuf sometimes but mostly to try if it works and when yes i buy better parts when they break.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Ray Ride4life

[Goody Boy]

If it will affect riding safety, I'd stay away from the cheap stuff. If it's just a farkle, why not?

[Rider 101]

The way I see it is known brand products have had to spend money on research and development, safety, training, wages....

Cheap knockoffs tend to have lower manufacturing standards, lower quality materials, and often poor safety and employee standards.

 

I won't buy cheap imitations and try where possible not to buy chinese made.

[Redneckj]

Wanna buy garbage?? Go ahead

 

Wanna take a chance on a part failing because the part looked “ok” on Amazon or EBay?    Go ahead

 

I wont.   
 

here are some pics that happened to my friends DRZ bar risers that were purchased from Amazon.  He is incredibly lucky they broke where they did at the desert 100.  
 

good luck with garbage. 
 

 

 

 

[winddown]

A plastic screen riser, sure, a metal part that bolts to the bike itself, no way hozay.

[Rider 101]

1 hour ago, winddown said:

A plastic screen riser, sure, a metal part that bolts to the bike itself, no way hozay.

You mean "now way Jose" 

(Aussie joke for those from the wrong side of the globe)

 

By buying knock offs you are feeding a dodgy economy.

Read reviews about Camel, Kedo, Rally Moto etc where they are made in the country of origin.

When I was a 1st year apprentice I bought Sidchrome tools because they were Aussie made. I still have most after 40 years of use.

Sidchrome "you canner hand a man a grander spanner"

Same goes for measuring gear. Mine are Moore and Wright, Mitutoyo or Starrett. Years of reliable service.

Back to bike parts I have used Aussie Barkbusters and Pivot pegz for years. Evilbay had knock off pivot pegs a few years ago and the Aussie manufacturer sooled the lawyers onto evilbay for selling items in breach of copyright or patents ( I think ). They soon disappeared.

[Tenerider]

38 minutes ago, Rider 101 said:

You mean "now way Jose" 

(Aussie joke for those from the wrong side of the globe)

 

By buying knock offs you are feeding a dodgy economy.

Read reviews about Camel, Kedo, Rally Moto etc where they are made in the country of origin.

When I was a 1st year apprentice I bought Sidchrome tools because they were Aussie made. I still have most after 40 years of use.

Sidchrome "you canner hand a man a grander spanner"

Same goes for measuring gear. Mine are Moore and Wright, Mitutoyo or Starrett. Years of reliable service.

Back to bike parts I have used Aussie Barkbusters and Pivot pegz for years. Evilbay had knock off pivot pegs a few years ago and the Aussie manufacturer sooled the lawyers onto evilbay for selling items in breach of copyright or patents ( I think ). They soon disappeared.

I couldn't agree more, especially on tools.

I never regretted buying expensive tools.

There is a saying in Germany: "Who buys cheap, buys twice". This has proven to be true countless times.

 

P.S.: My genuine Mitutoyo calipers had cost me 10€ used

[PNGL]

Unbranded "Chinesium" stuff is extremely hit or miss. I've bought several things for my T7 from AliExpress and that has been my experience. The folding, adjustable levers I bought for $25, awesome. The adjustable windshield brackets for $16, awesome. The Stick-On rubber protection pads for the plastics and tank for $15, awesome. The Red Aluminum brake reservoir caps and frame plugs that I bought... yeah, none of that Shet fit. Good luck sending stuff back to AliExpress. I just ate that $25. The blue Acerbic-ripoff chain guard I bought for $25, awesome.
Like I said, hit or miss...
I've bought a litany of items for RC and other stuff from AliExpress and BangGood and it is always hit or miss. That's the price for the stuff being absurdly cheap.

Edited October 24, 2022 by PNGL

[Ray Ride4life]

Be carefull with the levers. On a previous bike i had seemingly good levers but they eventually cost me the bike.

[PNGL]

12 minutes ago, DuncMan said:

 

What made you purchase an "Acerbic-ripoff chain guard"? Acerbic did the R&D. Did they not deserve the reward?

Half the cost.

[PNGL]

Just now, DuncMan said:

 

That didn't answer my question. I understand the motivation but not the logic.

It's even cheaper now.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNNv2EG

The logic is: I have minimal extra money. Get the things I want/need as cheap as I can. 

[Hibobb]

@DuncMan So you want me to ride a Harley and not a Yamaha?

Next you will say I can't buy neat stuff from Cory in Canada.... Blasphemy!!

 

More of my Honda Civic is made in America than a Ford F150 pickup truck last time I looked.

Ford shows "North American" made to confuse people (includes Mexico and Canada).

It is a world market for big business, so why not us? I don't feel bad buying on quality first, then price, then place of origin.

 

Side note: When I was young dad always said not to buy the Japanese crap....

Edited October 24, 2022 by Hibobb

[Fzrcraig]

Reverse-engineering really isn't engineering at all.

[Ray Ride4life]

24 minutes ago, Hogan said:

Chances are someone has tried something before you

Problem with the Chinese is that they are not quite consistent.
My levers had a good fit and worked fine but the next badge did not fit well or kept the brake on because the pushpin was to long.
Mine went bad and started to hook to something and then released at once, result was nothing, nothing, nothing and everything causing the front wheel to lock u and me crashing at 120km/h.
Turned out the pivot hole became egg shaped.

[PNGL]

16 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Problem with the Chinese is that they are not quite consistent.
My levers had a good fit and worked fine but the next badge did not fit well or kept the brake on because the pushpin was to long.
Mine went bad and started to hook to something and then released at once, result was nothing, nothing, nothing and everything causing the front wheel to lock u and me crashing at 120km/h.
Turned out the pivot hole became egg shaped.

That suuuuucks. The only issue with my $25 levers is that the machining tolerance isn't stellar; shocking I'm sure. The pivot where the levers flip up had a good bit of extra play in them. The spring tension of the ball detent wasn't enough so they had about 6-7mm of wiggle up and down (at the end of the lever). I just tightened (and loctited) the bolts that went through the pivots to slightly pinch together the flanged parts and now it's all good. They aren't floppy anymore and take just a tiny bit of actual force to flip the levers up out of the way. Haven't had a single issue in 4 months and about 5k miles. The one time (knock on wood) that I did sort of lay my bike down, the lever flipped up out of the way and all was well.

[Dougie]

Although everyone has to admit there are occasions when you have to buy cheap, unless you’re Elon, it’s like buying from a supermarket, and then complaining when the butchers on the high street has shut down.  I like to “reward” honest development by buying from good manufacturers. Not when they bump prices up for no reason though, showing no loyalty to regular customers. Someone like Camel or kreiga has put effort in to produce a quality item, so it’s only fair to show support before we lose them. 

[Fzrcraig]

2 hours ago, Hogan said:

If it's "non structural" I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. Things like levers, mirrors, indicators etc.

Like any product, just search for reviews. Chances are someone has tried something before you.

 

 

 

 

 

Reverse engineering is fundamental to innovation

If nobody ever copied anything, we would still be riding bicycles with motors attached to it from a company that existed in the 1880s

 

At the end of the day, you are riding a motorcycle made by a piano maker that got into the market by making copies of German motorcycles.

 

 

 

 

I couldn’t disagree more. 

[winddown]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:04 PM, Rider 101 said:

When I was a 1st year apprentice I bought Sidchrome tools because they were Aussie made. I still have most after 40 years of use.

 

 

I have a couple of sidchrome sets, but I must admit I only use them on heavy duty applications.  The thing is they are strong, but at the expense of thick walls and a slightly looser fit. 

 

When I went to install the OEM lower crashbars there was a bolt you had to tighten onto the rear engine lugs, it was recessed into a tube and there was no way the sidchrome was getting in there!  Either my 1/2 inch or 5/8 kit.  Luckily I have a couple of Minimax sets I picked up off an Ebay auction some years back.  Made in Japan, super strong.  That socket fitted no worries.  The Minimax sets went for a song because no one had any idea about the brand but I had bough some in the 1980's and knew they were good.  Like Dowidat, a great German brand, all of them squashed out of the market by the cheap junk that flooded in.

 

There is a story behind these sets, Minimax was trying to capture back the aussie market share I believe but the aussie boys never caught on.  All they wanted was meat pies, kangaroos, Holden cars and sidchrome sets

 

 

 

 

That's a 5/8 drive kit.  I have a 1/2 inch too but have never opened it.  Perhaps I'll just sell it one day?  I only bought it because no one else bid on it, I think I had a bid of $80

 

 

 

[NeilW]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:26 AM, Hogan said:

If it's "non structural" I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. Things like levers, mirrors, indicators etc.

Like any product, just search for reviews. Chances are someone has tried something before you.

 

 

 

 

 

Reverse engineering is fundamental to innovation

If nobody ever copied anything, we would still be riding bicycles with motors attached to it from a company that existed in the 1880s

 

At the end of the day, you are riding a motorcycle made by a piano maker that got into the market by making copies of German motorcycles.

 

 

 

 

I believe simply reverse engineering and selling a cheaper version is stealing. There is no innovation in "reverse engineering". I disagree that without  RE we would all be riding bicycles with motors from the 1880's . It is  INNOVATION on top of RE that creates the next Gen of parts and bikes etc.  Supporting people that sell cheap RE knockoffs is supporting NO innovation at all.  Camel is a great example of Innovation but he can't support Innovation if people keep buying Reverse engineered knock offs. I wonder how quickly they try to duplicate the new FIX.

[Tenerider]

2 minutes ago, Hogan said:

 

If the Fix is nothing more than a new brake pedal with a different pivot point/bushing I'll be pretty disappointed.

If it solves the problem...

[Yamablueridge]

I have a few off brand parts, as mentioned before it’s hit or miss on the quality. The tail tidy I bought off amazon was complete junk, plate was 6” from the tire with no rider or load. Then I went with a Camel tail and quickly realized the quality difference. I’m a Camel fanboy now.
 

I found it’s usually a losing bet on the quality of the parts and the returns will eat up an exorbitant amount of time to collect the refund. My new rule is anything more expensive than a 12 pack of Heineken and a large pizza is a no go. 
 

Although, my little Chinese air cooled 250 runs like a top and has 950 hard miles under the tires. The kit bike did require a full tear down and assembly - every item besides the Zongshen engine was disassembled and redone. After new chain, sprockets and tires I have under 2.5k in it and it’s a great learning bike for my son. And I learned a few things on the assembly too. 
The best part is the simplicity, air cooled, simple single line petcock and <250 pounds road legal. It’s a dumb&dumber kind of fun riding the little bike, the modified exhaust sounds like a wet fart on roll ons and farts always entertain the inner child. 
 

Maybe it’s old age but I’ve found when I suck it up and spend the extra for quality items, I rarely have regrets. Like the old man said “money comes and goes, time just goes”.