Rear brake seizing up.....

[johnnygolucky]

OK Team, I'm having a problem with my rear brake. 2022 with only 900 miles. The other night, I take a quick run to the store and came to a stop at a stop sign. Got going and when I pulled in the clutch, noticed it lurched forward. Shifted and kept going and noticed again, a lurch when shifting. When I got to the store, only about 2 miles aways I put it in neutral and noticed I couldn't move the bike. It felt like the brakes were clamped down. I got back home and parked it and sure enough, the rear brake disk was hotter than hell. I put the bike on the lift and pulled in the clutch and couldnt physically spin the rear wheel, nor would it spin when in neutral. 

 

So I figured the next morning I'd take a look at see what's going on. 

 

The next morning, the bike was still on the lift, in neural and I was able to spin the rear wheel like nothing ever happen. the rear pads had released on their own. I pushed on the rear brake pedal, and it would stop the rear wheel spinning it by hand and then the pads release like they should. 

 

So I took it for a spin around the block, got to a stop sign, using the rear brake to stop, got going and sure enough, the exact same thing happened, the rear brake was trying to stop the rear wheel from spinning and not releasing when i lift up on the rear brake lever. Rode it back to my shop and that disk was hot again and couldnt spin it by hand up on the lift, but just a half hour later and it was able to spin freely. 

 

The rear brake disk is now discolored, almost anodized looking on the inner part of the disc, from heat Im guessing. 

 

I thought "I wonder if it would happened just riding the bike and not using the rear brake to stop and only using the front", so i rode for a couple miles and just used the front to stop and the rear wheel moved freely the entire ride. So the front has nothing to do with it. 

 

I'm not a brake guy, so I'm at a loss of what could be causing this? Any suggestions on how to trouble shoot or reasons this could suddenly be happening? 

 

Much appreciated on the insight. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by johnnygolucky

[Hibobb]

Accidently "riding" the rear brake is a common occurrence on the T7 (guys swear they never do it). You boil the fluid and it keeps pressure on until it cools off.

Or....

The Pedal is gummed up and sticking lighty, boiling it

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Hibobb

[johnnygolucky]

16 minutes ago, Hibobb said:

Accidently "riding" the rear brake is a common occurrence on the T7 (guys swear they never do it). You boil the fluid and it keeps pressure on until it cools off.

Or....

The Pedal is gummed up and sticking lighty, boiling it

 

Thanks mate, but when I was wondering if the rear brake was sticking, I made sure that my foot was not riding it, looking down while standing. Then rode in a way to actually try and lift the peel to pull the plunger down to make sure the brake is not engage and no change. 

 

In all cases, it appears that heat is part of the equation. Without heat on the pads in the initial stop, there is no problem i.e, not using the rear brake at all.

Once I use the brake even just for one stop, the pads constrict and then constrict even more as the pads continue to build up heat. 

 

Once cooled, they release on their own. 

 

Perplexed. 

[Ray Ride4life]

12 minutes ago, johnnygolucky said:

Thanks mate, but when I was wondering if the rear brake was sticking, I made sure that my foot was not riding it, looking down while standing. Then rode in a way to actually try and lift the peel to pull the plunger down to make sure the brake is not engage and no change. 

 

In all cases, it appears that heat is part of the equation. Without heat on the pads in the initial stop, there is no problem i.e, not using the rear brake at all.

Once I use the brake even just for one stop, the pads constrict and then constrict even more as the pads continue to build up heat. 

 

Once cooled, they release on their own. 

 

Perplexed. 

There is a known issue with a sticky pivot that also can be the cause.

Best upgrade for the brakes is a Camel ADV "the fix" brake pedal.

[Hollybrook]

 

[johnnygolucky]

1 hour ago, Ray Ride4life said:

There is a known issue with a sticky pivot that also can be the cause.

Best upgrade for the brakes is a Camel ADV "the fix" brake pedal.

Im planning on getting the lever at some point, but the problem isn't a wondering bite or vague feeling of rear braking, for which Camel has addressed and done with a better leverage when pressing on the brake lever. It has something to do with the pistons not releasing when engaged, and worse, growing in tension when heat is applied to the pads and then slowly releasing as the pads cool. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by johnnygolucky

[AZJW]

Lots of good advice noted above, but with only 900 miles on the clock, the dealer where I bought it is where I'd go next. 

[Black99S]

Rear calliper is single piston so the calliper has to float. It must be able to move on mount pins.

If calliper is sticking it will continue to drag even if the piston relaxes.

is your calliper free to move?

[johnnygolucky]

1 hour ago, AZJW said:

Lots of good advice noted above, but with only 900 miles on the clock, the dealer where I bought it is where I'd go next. 

I would, but I bought the bike used with 800 miles and the owner doesn't want to help with it still being under warranty. Not a very nice person, come to fund out. 

40 minutes ago, Black99S said:

Rear calliper is single piston so the calliper has to float. It must be able to move on mount pins.

If calliper is sticking it will continue to drag even if the piston relaxes.

is your calliper free to move?

This is good, I will try to remove the wheel this weekend and move and grease the caliper to see if that helps. I wonder with the disc now being discolored if I'd need to purchase a new disc. 

 

Thanks everyone for offering some tips and advice. I'll try to tackle it Saturday and see what happens. Any other insights would be appreciated. 

[Hollybrook]

@johnnygolucky the CamelADV fix also addresses the stock lever binding and not fully releasing the brakes. The typical symptom of this is what you have experienced.  Cory explains how this happens in one of his videos. 

[johnnygolucky]

1 hour ago, Hollybrook said:

@johnnygolucky the CamelADV fix also addresses the stock lever binding and not fully releasing the brakes. The typical symptom of this is what you have experienced.  Cory explains how this happens in one of his videos. 

Thanks mate, I watched that video, and I see the part in which he says that the return doesnt seem to want to return on the original. or rather it's slow to return. That was my initial thought, so I purposefully would pull up on the pedal with my tows, to receive the hydraulic pressure on the pads. And nothing. the heat from spinning would seem to engage those pads even more, until the bike sits completely still and the pads let go. 

 

This weekend I'll try to remove the wheel and caliper and clean it up if it's perhaps got some gunk. Hopefully it's that simple, nonetheless Just ordered Camel's The Fix pedal just based on the positive reviews and everything he does just makes sense. I've already got the Gut Guard, Bobble head, clutch pull and tail tidy. 

Such a great company to work with. 

 

Should be noted this is my 2nd 700. Was once of the lucky ones and got a bike in 2020 when Yamaha did the lottery. Rode it for 4,000 miles or so and sold it as i was riding more dirt so bought a FE501 and didnt have the space for 2 bikes. 

 

Well build a new shop this last summer on my property and really missed having the 700, as I have some longer trips with miles of pavement planned for this coming summer so the FE501 and this 700 is a good 2 horse stable, for now.

The first Tenere had zero problems with the rear brake, which is why this one is throwing me. 

 

Figures crossed it's a simple fix. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by johnnygolucky

[williestreet]

Start with the simple things first.

Almost all t7s' come with too much fluid in the rear reservoir.  As you use the brakes they heat the fluid expands and there is no room in the reservoir for expansion and the resulting increase in pressure causes the pads to be pushed against the rotor causing even more heat.  

This results in excessive pad and disk wear and even the scenario you describe where the brakes lock up.

 

Remove fluid form the reservoir and set the level to only half full.  Do not fill to the max line.

Ride it and determine if this fixes your problem.  If not as others have said the lever sometimes doesn't return fully and will cause the same issue.

 

Camel fix is a great option, but others have also fitted a second return spring that makes sure the lever raises fully and receives pressure on the rotor.

 

Good luck getting it sorted, but make sure the reservoir level is set correctly.  

 

 

[mcbrien]

There's a tiny hole in the master cylinder that lets the fluid pressure release when you let off the pedal. Could be debris blocking return hole.

Lift rear wheel, spin tire and pay attention to drag, then press brake, release brake and spin wheel . If you notice more drag than before it could be blocked hole.

[PNGL]

Do you possibly have too much fluid in the reservoir? If it were totally full of fluid with no air to compress, then as the fluid heats and expands it would have nowhere to go but the pistons in the caliper.

[Eric W.]

18 hours ago, Hibobb said:

Accidently "riding" the rear brake is a common occurrence on the T7 (guys swear they never do it). You boil the fluid and it keeps pressure on until it cools off.

Or....

The Pedal is gummed up and sticking lighty, boiling it

 

I'm guilty of it.  Why do you think it's common?

[Lewie]

Get it back to the dealer 

[Hibobb]

41 minutes ago, Eric W. said:

Why do you think it's common

Not many will admit to it, but every sixth T7 I run into has a rainbow colored rear rotor...

[johnnygolucky]

Thanks so much all, I will for sure check the fluid level tomorrow, pull the rear wheel and caliper and clean it up and see what happens. I'll report back once I go over those things and see if it works. You're all the best. 

 

Cheers

[williestreet]

Another thing you might want to address if you take things apart is they don't grease the pivot during assembly.

It's not the cause of your issue, but it will make it rotate a little easier and possibly prevent some wear on the pivot if you grease it up well.

 

There is room to add a Zerk fitting to make regular greasing easier.

 

[Ray Ride4life]

1 hour ago, williestreet said:

Another thing you might want to address if you take things apart is they don't grease the pivot during assembly.

It's not the cause of your issue, but it will make it rotate a little easier and possibly prevent some wear on the pivot if you grease it up well.

 

There is room to add a Zerk fitting to make regular greasing easier.

 

That's what i meant with the sticky pivot but i was at work on lunch break so just a quick reply.

[johnnygolucky]

Well, as usual, Camel Adventure makes the world a better place. I ordered the Fix, and before doing anything else, it showed up today and I installed it. Took the bike out for a spin for a couple miles, highway and such and only used the rear brake to stop and it works again. No seizing. Zero. Let go the brake and it doesn't grab.

 

I will say it is vague, need to press pretty far to get it to grip but I'm wondering if that is from the brake pads and rear disc (which is now discolored), perhaps that heat has decreased the braking effectiveness? Only 900 miles on them but they got freaking hot and smoked. Not sure.

 

Either way, I'd rather have it work the way it is then seize and lock the rear wheel like it use to. 

 

Thanks #Camel_ADV !

[AZJW]

Order his Galfer replacement pads, which made a huge difference in feel and stopping power. Coupled with The Fix, it's now what it should've been from the factory.

[johnnygolucky]

10 minutes ago, AZJW said:

Order his Galfer replacement pads, which made a huge difference in feel and stopping power. Coupled with The Fix, it's now what it should've been from the factory.

Will do! 

I wonder if I also need a new rear disk? It's all rainbow colored from heat on the inside of the disc, meaning where the pads don't touch/closer to the axel. 

[Ray Ride4life]

Also order a rebuild kit for the master cilinder, i forgot it and will go after it to have it in next week.
Mine is inconsistent, some times i can get a controllable slide (only since i have "the Fix") but often i don't know where the point of grip is.
I read somewhere that the master cilinder is not always put together correctly, it can be a matter of taking it apart and put it back together in the right way but most likely the rubber parts are deformed of otherwise damaged.
I have a Stoltec single rotor kit in its way with a rear ABS delete and also bought a new rear rotor and pads so i think it's a smart move when i also put in a rebuild kit after after reading that.