Rally Raid rear spring warning

[WingVetteStrom]

Had the rear sag tested by a suspension expert with the OEM rear shock spring and it came out at 55%.  Recommended start point should be only 30%, at whatever configuration you ride the bike with.  For example with me full gear and saddlebags loaded up with about 50 pounds.   I weigh 185 pounds in my birthday suit.

 

As per the Rally Raid website recommendations, I went with the 85nm spring upgrade.  After installation, sag was rechecked and it improved from 55% to 44% with rear preload full off (full counterclockwise), and 41% with full preload (full clockwise).  Nothing close to getting it down to the about 30% it should be at.

 

Only suggesting that you might want to consider going with a one step higher resistance based on your individual total weight situation.   For example maybe a 90nm spring instead of an 85nm spring if an 85 is what appears to be appropriate based on the info on the Rally Raid website.   I now wish I had chosen a 90nm instead of an 85, but too late for that now.  Leaving for South America in a few weeks.

[DT675]

That’s interesting.  I’m 180 in my birthday suit, I also have the 85 RR spring on my bike.  I checked the sag with the OEM spring and of course it was way off.  I haven’t checked the sag since because well, it doesn’t matter, I’m not getting a 3rd spring regardless.  With that said, I run 4-8 preload clicks empty, or with just my day trip setup. I have to run FULL preload with my camping setup and I still think it’s a bit soft. I think I might have been better off with the 90 too.  Maybe.  

[Uncle M]

@WingVetteStrom  I wonder if there's an error or typo on the RR spring chart? The chart specs an 85 Nm spring for 85 kg rider and up to 50 kg  luggage, so a max load of 135 kg; while recommending a 90 Nm spring for a 95 kg rider and 15 kg luggage, so a max load of 110 kg. @Ktmmitch John or Adam might want to chime in here? I wonder if it's supposed to be 5.0 kg and not 50 kg. luggage?

 

[DT675]

Yeah that’s 135 kg. I think the 85 is a little too light for 135 kg. But I’m sure there is a % of error for each spring too. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by DT675

[WingVetteStrom]

1 hour ago, Uncle M said:

@WingVetteStrom  I wonder if there's an error or typo on the RR spring chart? The chart specs an 85 Nm spring for 85 kg rider and up to 50 kg  luggage, so a max load of 135 kg; while recommending a 90 Nm spring for a 95 kg rider and 15 kg luggage, so a max load of 110 kg. @Ktmmitch John or Adam might want to chime in here? I wonder if it's supposed to be 5.0 kg and not 50 kg. luggage?

 

I really don't know.  Maybe I'll wait to see if the thread gets a little longer, and then forward a link to the thread to Rally Raid to get their input.  Maybe they could chime in on the thread.

 

[Ray Ride4life]

I think there's no mistake with the list. Springrates are given for the weight of a naked rider as the rest is too much of a variable.

This info comes from my specialist, the 10Nm extra in my setup was based on my luggage i take standard and when i travel.

[Rich TT]

24 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

I think there's no mistake with the list. Springrates are given for the weight of a naked rider as the rest is too much of a variable.

This info comes from my specialist, the 10Nm extra in my setup was based on my luggage i take standard and when i travel.

Exactly that. The website says inc. clothing. With boots, armour, helmet, top, bottoms, gloves, thick socks, hydration pack if used, there's another 10kg easy. 

 

I weighed myself in everything before I chose my RR spring with the Rally Raid shock.

 

Rich

[Tenerider]

I just mounted and rode my Tractive shock with 85 N/mm spring as well - but I have manual preload adjustment only. I'm 81 kg without gear, so roughly the same as @WingVetteStrom - didn't check with any luggage, but with only about 5 mm preload I get 12% free sag and 29% static sag.

Don't take these numbers too serious, I didn't take several measurements and calculated an average (my wife was impatient when taking the readings). But these numbers are pretty consistent and show there's lots of room for luggage and even a pillion.

 

Do you carry your luggage in a topcase? The further behind the weight sits, the bigger its leverage and thus the bigger the needed preload.

[Hollybrook]

Similar to @Tenerider, I am at 32% rider sag with about 1/2" preload on a 90 Nm spring on a Rally Raid extreme shock.  For reference, I weigh 225 pounds without gear. 

 

The chart on the Rally Raid website is for use with their shocks. Perhaps it is not perfect when using the stock shock? 

 

Once the Dakar race is over we should hear back from @Ktmmitch.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Hollybrook
Added my weight

[Tenerider]

22 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

Similar to @Tenerider, I am at 32% rider sag with about 1/2" preload on a 90 Nm spring on a Rally Raid extreme shock

 

The chart on the Rally Raid website is for use with their shocks. Perhaps it is not perfect when using the stock shock? 

 

Once the Dakar race is over we should hear back from @Ktmmitch.

He's taking part?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tenerider

[Hollybrook]

I'm not sure but suspect they have customer bikes that are participating. 

[AZJW]

@WingVetteStrom I see you've listed 50 lbs additional for saddle bags and riding gear, but have you weighed just yourself with gear, ready to ride?  My riding gear weighed a bunch more than I anticipated and as you can see added 30 lbs to my body weight. I went with a 90Nm spring, which works fine and I'm 17 lbs lighter than you.

 

Rereading your post, it appears you have 50 lbs just in your saddlebags, plus your riding gear ( 30 lbs?) plus your body weight of 185, which would total 265 lbs, are these numbers correct? If so, that is way too much weight for an 85Nm spring. 

[Uncle M]

2 hours ago, Hollybrook said:

The chart on the Rally Raid website is for use with their shocks. Perhaps it is not perfect when using the stock shock? 

 

The chart I copied into my  post is for RR springs using the OEM shock. There's a different chart for calculating springs on their Extreme and Adventure shocks.

[WingVetteStrom]

1 hour ago, AZJW said:

@WingVetteStrom I see you've listed 50 lbs additional for saddle bags and riding gear, but have you weighed just yourself with gear, ready to ride?  My riding gear weighed a bunch more than I anticipated and as you can see added 30 lbs to my body weight. I went with a 90Nm spring, which works fine and I'm 17 lbs lighter than you.

 

Rereading your post, it appears you have 50 lbs just in your saddlebags, plus your riding gear ( 30 lbs?) plus your body weight of 185, which would total 265 lbs, are these numbers correct? If so, that is way too much weight for an 85Nm spring. 

I chose the 85nm instead of the 90nm, because although I weigh 95kg with riding gear, not 85kg, I don't carry anywhere close to 50kg of luggage, even on my three month trips. (I don't camp. and most of my pannier space is taken up by light medicare eligible 67 year old guy prescription medicine.  Haha.).   What I also found confusing in the chart were the statements of "Light passenger and/or 15kg luggage, and Passenger and/or 30kg luggage."   Say wha?  Even a small passenger is going to weigh much more that 15kg, or even 30kg.   So I figured that the equivalent of a "light passenger plus 15kg luggage, was way more weight than I have in my soft bags.   And no, I don't use a top box.  Keep all my weight as low as possible.  For example a Giant Loop roll up 1 gallon bag of gas in the bottom of the left pannier if necessary.   (Balanced out I figure by the weight of the exhaust.)

So anyway, at this point it doesn't matter.  I have what I have, which equates to about 4" remaining of usable travel on the shock to help me when I slam unintended into one of those giant LATAM speed bumps.  (Forks seem adequate on the T7.)

[mpatch]

Another thing to keep in mind is all the bolt on stuff adds a decent amount of weight. Pannier racks and crash bars are damn near 30 pounds depending on brand and skid plates are another few pounds. 

[WingVetteStrom]

33 minutes ago, mpatch said:

Another thing to keep in mind is all the bolt on stuff adds a decent amount of weight. Pannier racks and crash bars are damn near 30 pounds depending on brand and skid plates are another few pounds. 

Ya, forgot to add the Sub Zero refrigerator strapped to my back seat.  

[mpatch]

I notice you keep using the word "about" when it comes to weights.

Get and scale and you might be in for a surprise and realize what you think is 20 pounds is actually more like 40. 

I use a 85nm spring and it takes me 2-3 clicks to get proper sage without luggage, I weigh 180lbs without gear, with gear I'm between 210-220 depending on what I'm wearing. 

 

[WingVetteStrom]

7 hours ago, mpatch said:

I notice you keep using the word "about" when it comes to weights.

Get and scale and you might be in for a surprise and realize what you think is 20 pounds is actually more like 40. 

I use a 85nm spring and it takes me 2-3 clicks to get proper sage without luggage, I weigh 180lbs without gear, with gear I'm between 210-220 depending on what I'm wearing. 

 

Well, at this point, it's too late.  I'm off to the southern continent for three months.  As I mentioned above, the descriptions of passenger and luggage rate on Rally Raid threw me off.

[Tenerider]

1 minute ago, WingVetteStrom said:

Well, at this point, it's too late.  I'm off to the southern continent for three months.  As I mentioned above, the descriptions of passenger and luggage rate on Rally Raid threw me off.

Ride safe buddy!

[WingVetteStrom]

Just now, Tenerider said:

Ride safe buddy!

Are you German or a Yank living in Germany?   I was stationed at Mainz-Finthen Army Airfield in the 1970s for a couple years.  Traveled everywhere on my time off and for awhile rebuilt a 1964 Triumph Trophy 650 and rode it around locally.

[Tenerider]

49 minutes ago, WingVetteStrom said:

Are you German or a Yank living in Germany?   I was stationed at Mainz-Finthen Army Airfield in the 1970s for a couple years.  Traveled everywhere on my time off and for awhile rebuilt a 1964 Triumph Trophy 650 and rode it around locally.

German, born and raised

I'm in the "far west" close to the Dutch border.

[CamT]

I am about 75 Kg + riding gear but running 30mm lowering links. I emailed Rally Raid before buying and gave them my weight, the fact I have lowering links, and that I wanted to try using the stock shock. I also said I would likely carry on average about 50lbs of gear when travelling. I also wanted to account for my extra crash bars, my riding gear etc.

 

They recommened a 90Nm spring for me based on that. I'm hoping to get it mounted this week and will see how it works