I hate how Tenere handles.

[Dezelvol]

Hi,
I own Tenere 700 for a year already. I have done some cone riding on parking lot, tight offroad, highway and other. And I have to say that I have issues, how it handles. 

 

1. When doing figure 8 on parking I have to move on seat a lot. I'm not very short rider, 180cm (5.9 foot) but I feel that distance between footpegs and seat is too big. It's great for long rides but on maneuvering seat pulls into my knees and I feel like I move with bike, instead having it move under me.  Also, on full lock, bike goes up (probably due to steering geometry) and with previous issue, it makes sharp maneuvering so hard.

 

2. When riding offroad it tracks a lot. Considering steering damper, first time in my life. I had DR800, Tiger 800XC and Enduro custom Sportster(KTM fork), and never had that issue before. On all that bikes I could just keep handlebars with no effort and stuck my knees out in most challenging slow dirt. I can't do it on Tenere! I have to hold it with my knees when standing, otherwise front will track terrain and steer itself hard. 

 

3. On higher speeds handling becomes too sensitive. Slight push to handlebar and you feel it outright. I could easily go max speed one handed on any of previous bikes, but I'm terrified to let my hand from handlebar even on 120km/h on Tenere. And have to keep it with my knees to keep it stable.

 

Sorry for critics, I still love my Tenere. I know how to fix suspension and wind protection but I have no idea, why it handles so weird. It's so tiring to struggle to keep bike in straight line on offroad, train figures on parking lot or keep it stable on high speeds.

Would be glad to hear your thoughts. Have a nice day. Thank you.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Dezelvol

[Windblown]

My first question would be to ask if you have made any changes to the suspension and what do you weigh?

 

Other thought's that comes to mind are:

 

I've owned and ridden an 800XC off pavement a fair bit. The 800XC tracks well right up to the point that the front end starts to push and then it will instantly slam to full lock due to the steering geometry and body slam you into the ground, LOL. 

The T700 does have very light steering though. This can be a blessing or curse depending on what you are accustomed to.  As I'm sure you know it's just about impossible to properly control the handlebars while also using them for balance. If you don't like gripping the bike with your legs then you would probably benefit a great deal from wider/longer footpegs. 

 

[Dezelvol]

4 minutes ago, Windblown said:

My first question would be to ask if you have made any changes to the suspension and what do you weigh?

 

Other thought's that comes to mind are:

 

I've owned and ridden an 800XC off pavement a fair bit. The 800XC tracks well right up to the point that the front end starts to push and then it will instantly slam to full lock due to the steering geometry and body slam you into the ground, LOL. 

The T700 does have very light steering though. This can be a blessing or curse depending on what you are accustomed to.  As I'm sure you know it's just about impossible to properly control the handlebars while also using them for balance. If you don't like gripping the bike with your legs then you would probably benefit a great deal from wider/longer footpegs. 

 

Stock suspension, 2021 model, preload configured for my weight (73kg/160lbs), damping and preload on the soft side, I don't ride aggressive offroad but hate initial stiff feeling. Is there a chance to make steering lighter if I'll drop front a bit? 

Handling with knees is surely beneficial when going fast. But when you are in deep mud, and bike goes sideways, you need much more control than you can achieve with your knees squeezing tank. Especially with high center of gravity.

[Dezelvol]

15 minutes ago, DuncMan said:

I find manoeuvring at slow speeds and riding at high speeds on the highway to be totally intuitive and very stable with my T700. It does, however, act and feel a lot like my old enduro bikes, especially the steering, so it will definitely be a very different experience from most other ADV bikes.

It's great that you like yours. I want to achieve same feeling. But strangely, it felt much less enduro than DR800. I loved that one! But 30 years old engine is a bit outdated.

[Windblown]

Just now, Dezelvol said:

Stock suspension, 2021 model, preload configured for my weight (73kg/160lbs), damping and preload on the soft side, I don't ride aggressive offroad but hate initial stiff feeling. Is there a chance to make steering lighter if I'll drop front a bit? 

Handling with knees is surely beneficial when going fast. But when you are in deep mud, and bike goes sideways, you need much more control than you can achieve with your knees squeezing tank. Especially with high center of gravity.

 

Yes, Steering is light but slow on the T700. Sure, raising the forks can speed it up a bit.  If you can avoid a shift in balance and bodyweight from causing unwanted input to the bars without jamming at least one knee into the tank there is nothing I can offer to assist. If I can't lock part of my body into the bike my weight shift or need for balance will end up causing massive unwanted steering inputs. 

 

[Ray Ride4life]

I don't understand, i think the T7 handles just great en after i went crazy with it it no is perfect and i managed to keep him on it's wheels a couple of times like it was a miracle.
Still changing things but i already liked it when it was stock and i adjusted the free play of the throttle cable and the position of the levers.

[Dougie]

 That’s weird, as I find the handling really responsive on this bike. Second nature stuff.  Apart from lowering the bike etc I wonder if they’ve done something wrong when assembling it? 

[Ray Ride4life]

Now i'm thinking of it, how are the steering stem bearings adjusted?
If i remember correctly there where some people with too much play in them.

[Dezelvol]

3 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Now i'm thinking of it, how are the steering stem bearings adjusted?
If i remember correctly there where some people with too much play in them.

I'll check it. Thank you

[Tenerider]

25 minutes ago, Dezelvol said:

Stock suspension, 2021 model, preload configured for my weight (73kg/160lbs), damping and preload on the soft side, I don't ride aggressive offroad but hate initial stiff feeling. Is there a chance to make steering lighter if I'll drop front a bit? 

Handling with knees is surely beneficial when going fast. But when you are in deep mud, and bike goes sideways, you need much more control than you can achieve with your knees squeezing tank. Especially with high center of gravity.

No. If the bike is set up correctly (head bearing play, rear axle straight) the high COG makes balancing easier and thus keeps the bike on track better than a low COG bike.

It sounds alarming to me that you need to put in so much effort to keep your T7 straight or to change direction.

I'm a newbie rider and can do it effortlessly. I suspect there might something be loose or misaligned on your specific bike.

[Dezelvol]

5 minutes ago, Tenerider said:

No. If the bike is set up correctly (head bearing play, rear axle straight) the high COG makes balancing easier and thus keeps the bike on track better than a low COG bike.

It sounds alarming to me that you need to put in so much effort to keep your T7 straight or to change direction.

I'm a newbie rider and can do it effortlessly. I suspect there might something be loose or misaligned on your specific bike.

I need to check everything once more. Or maybe I'm just lazy. Or got used to something else and need to get more practice. 

 

I had to understand if I'm the only one who feels it. Looks like that. So problem is in my case, not Tenere itself.

[Hollybrook]

Another thing to check is your swingarm bearings. If they are loose, the bike will change direction when you get on and off the throttle, effectively steering with the back wheel. 

 

The T7 likes to go fast and is a bit ungainly at trials speeds in my opinion.  My daughter and I went to a cone camp event a couple of weeks ago.  If you are not familiar with them, they are held in parking lots and you make full lock turns at slow speeds around orange cones.  Balance is maintained with a combination of steering and clutch/throttle. I ended up dropping my bike when at full lock and leaned over a bit too far at idle with the clutch out. When I added a bit of throttle, I stalled the bike and down we went. 

[deanso]

If you find that the T7 handles worse then a DR800, I suggest you do a testride on a different T7  to get some comparison. It sounds like you have something going on with your T7.

[Dezelvol]

1 hour ago, Hollybrook said:

Another thing to check is your swingarm bearings. If they are loose, the bike will change direction when you get on and off the throttle, effectively steering with the back wheel. 

 

The T7 likes to go fast and is a bit ungainly at trials speeds in my opinion.  My daughter and I went to a cone camp event a couple of weeks ago.  If you are not familiar with them, they are held in parking lots and you make full lock turns at slow speeds around orange cones.  Balance is maintained with a combination of steering and clutch/throttle. I ended up dropping my bike when at full lock and leaned over a bit too far at idle with the clutch out. When I added a bit of throttle, I stalled the bike and down we went. 

It's probably what I'm talking about. We have a lot of deep slippery mud, deep sand and stuff where you have to go extremely slow or you risk to crash hard. And that's scary. As far as you go faster, it's perfect.

[winddown]

6 hours ago, Dezelvol said:

Stock suspension, 2021 model, preload configured for my weight (73kg/160lbs), damping and preload on the soft side...

 

While I was waiting for delivery (4 months) I came across 2 riders in town on T7's.  Both were old hands and regularly road the back-roads (dirt).  They told me how they would regularly get them up to 140km/h, I laughed and said, what about the corners.  Oh yeah, as long as they were sweepers they said.  The bikes were modded here and there but the thing they stressed to me was that you really needed to upgrade the suspension, whatever your weight.  I'm 100kg, these guys were 85 and 90 I would have guessed.  They told me they were downright dangerous off road with the stock equipment, I assumed they meant at speed.  I said even at lower speeds?  They said "pretty much".

 

Take that for what it's worth but I upgraded mine to a wilders rear with the thicker piston and these racetech front springs with new valving.   I can't comment on offroad as I have little experience there yet but onroad it's chalk and cheese compared to what it was.  When I read reviews about anything and people say "Oh no these are great, 100%"  I'm really not interested, people say that even after owning a thing for a day.  What I want to hear is what the problems are, and if there is a minority saying there are issues it's a sure bet there are.  The T7 overall is a fantastic bike, you're hard pressed to find ANY negative reviews anywhere.  But specific aspects of the bike.  That's another matter.

[DT675]

12 hours ago, Windblown said:

I've owned and ridden an 800XC off pavement a fair bit. The 800XC tracks well right up to the point that the front end starts to push and then it will instantly slam to full lock due to the steering geometry and body slam you into the ground, LOL. 

Right. I’ve ridden my buddies 800XC and it tracks fantastic, really impressive… until it doesn’t.  No warning- one minute your up then next your down.  That street geometry gives no heads up on what’s actually happening imo.  I much prefer the feedback (and controllability) my T7 gives me. 

[winddown]

2 hours ago, DT675 said:

Right. I’ve ridden my buddies 800XC and it tracks fantastic, really impressive… until it doesn’t...

 

 

 

[AirborneSilva]

I'm only 5'6" (three inches shorter than you), and I think it handles just fine.  I've done figure 8's in a parking lot just for practice (some people were watching me probably thinking is was crazy), and have no issues at all.  I've not been able to take it off road yet since there's no real place to go around where I live but feel confident it and I will do just fine. 

[BikeBrother]

Yeah, figure 8 is difficult, i only do figure 1.... Much easier...

[winddown]

practicing in a carpark with cones is a great way to drop your bike.  I think it's basically a practice drill on dropping bikes.  A grassy paddock makes much more sense, or this say.  2:45

 

  2

[Wintersdark]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:09 PM, winddown said:

practicing in a carpark with cones is a great way to drop your bike.  I think it's basically a practice drill on dropping bikes.  A grassy paddock makes much more sense, or this say.  2:45

 

  2

Strong agree.  While a grassy field isn't necessarily ideal for a pure-street bike, it's WAY better for something with appropriate tires.  Low speed drops on soft, grassy dirt are WAY less damaging than onto tarmac.

 

As to @Dezelvol's issue, I'd also recommend as @Ray Ride4life suggested checking the stem bearings.  MANY bikes came from the factory without them being torqued properly resulting in far too much steering stem play once they get well seated from riding.  Got to be something really sketchy, as while there are for sure legit issues with the T7 overall, I've never heard anyone cite handling as one of them.  The steering is for sure light (particularly at high speed) but quite precise and effortless to get it over onto the edge of the tire.  With a 21" front it's a bit slower steering for sure initially then it to fall in more as it leans, but that's just a reality of 21" fronts. 

 

I came from street bikes to the T7, and was immediately comfortable doing 180kph runs down twisting mountain highways.  

 

 

Quote

1. When doing figure 8 on parking I have to move on seat a lot. I'm not very short rider, 180cm (5.9 foot) but I feel that distance between footpegs and seat is too big. It's great for long rides but on maneuvering seat pulls into my knees and I feel like I move with bike, instead having it move under me.  Also, on full lock, bike goes up (probably due to steering geometry) and with previous issue, it makes sharp maneuvering so hard.

Curious.  I actually found the peg to seat height to be uncomfortably short, and surprisingly so given the overall height of the bike.  I mean, if you're coming from a trials riding position, sure that's fair, but...?  I'd argue that a flaw of the T7 is that it's quite tall, but weirdly cramped at the same time, at least as a tall rider.  So much so that I've dropped the pegs 30mm and mounted a SC Tall Rally seat.  Mind you, I ride holding the bike with my knees and allow it and my knees to move under me while keeping my torso independent.  Also, I'm 6'4". 

 

 

Quote

 

2. When riding offroad it tracks a lot. Considering steering damper, first time in my life. I had DR800, Tiger 800XC and Enduro custom Sportster(KTM fork), and never had that issue before. On all that bikes I could just keep handlebars with no effort and stuck my knees out in most challenging slow dirt. I can't do it on Tenere! I have to hold it with my knees when standing, otherwise front will track terrain and steer itself hard. 

 

3. On higher speeds handling becomes too sensitive. Slight push to handlebar and you feel it outright. I could easily go max speed one handed on any of previous bikes, but I'm terrified to let my hand from handlebar even on 120km/h on Tenere. And have to keep it with my knees to keep it stable.

 

These two for sure are just facts of the bike.  You can certainly get used to it, but a lot of people mount steering dampers and in fact some of the new T7 variants come with dampers stock.  Dropping the forks in the tubes helps reduce this significantly in my experience, but with some practice it becomes normal.  I'm very comfortable riding without hands on the bars now, even for extended periods and with cornering.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by Wintersdark

[Uncle M]

@Dezelvol Regarding how the T7 handles doing figure 8's, I always found this Brake Magazine YT video very useful for brushing up on my technique. The techniques (weighting outside peg, sliding butt cheek off the seat, looking where you're going, leaning the bike over, light hands on the bar, controlling speed with the clutch, etc.) helped me enough that 8's seem pretty easy now where they were harder when I first got the bike.  Good luck with solving your puzzle if you haven't already figured it out!

[winddown]

1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

 

I came from street bikes to the T7, and was immediately comfortable doing 180kph runs down twisting mountain highways.  

 

 

Me as well, but I struggle getting over 100 on gravel, in a straight line.   Trouble is dirt roads are typically very undulating and the corners on them aren't signed like on the road.  You can come over a gentle crest and there in front of you is a 90-deg bend lol.  I keep the speed way down offroad but I have had it up over 160 on the tarmac sweepers, the bike handles like a dream on those OEM pirellis.

[r1superstar]

3 hours ago, Uncle M said:

@Dezelvol Regarding how the T7 handles doing figure 8's, I always found this Brake Magazine YT video very useful for brushing up on my technique. The techniques (weighting outside peg, sliding butt cheek off the seat, looking where you're going, leaning the bike over, light hands on the bar, controlling speed with the clutch, etc.) helped me enough that 8's seem pretty easy now where they were harder when I first got the bike.  Good luck with solving your puzzle if you haven't already figured it out!

 

 

Best to be in second gear, drag the rear brake, turn your head, and counterbalance...

[Wintersdark]

23 hours ago, winddown said:

 

Me as well, but I struggle getting over 100 on gravel, in a straight line.   Trouble is dirt roads are typically very undulating and the corners on them aren't signed like on the road.  You can come over a gentle crest and there in front of you is a 90-deg bend lol.  I keep the speed way down offroad but I have had it up over 160 on the tarmac sweepers, the bike handles like a dream on those OEM pirellis.

Yep.  I badmouth the Pirelli's all the time (abysmal in cold, not great in mud or really lose terrain) but they're extremely good on dry tarmac (frankly quite competitive with midrange sport touring tires) and quite competent on regular dirt roads. As far as stock tires go I think they were a brilliant choice for the T7.  Good enough to do anything normal offroad, and definitely showcase the bike on tarmac.

 

I don't think I've had mine over 100kph on dirt either; I think around 90 on gravel is the fastest I've pushed it there - here in Alberta, we've got some gravel roads that are *long* and straight, and visibility extends for kilometers.  Not fun to ride in the least, but a necessity to get to some of the fun places.  Even so...  Those roads are regularly graded with deep gravel (I often wonder if people hear "gravel road" and think "dirt road", but they are very different things here), and it takes balls bigger than mine to do that.  Once you get into dirt roads where it's uneven but solid... Yeah, going that fast is extremely dangerous.  Cars oncoming or stopped often on the wrong side of the road, large animals, really sharp corners, etc.  Dirt roads are almost always completely unmarked.