So many opinions about chain lub'ing

[NeilW]

I sent an email to Vortex Racing, the US distributor for EK chains asking about lubrication of o ring chains from "the source"

Here is the reply

While o-ring chains require LESS maintenance, it is still paramount that you keep the chain clean, lubricated, and under proper tension. You should be cleaning and lubing your chain after every 300 miles minimum - probably more off-road.

 

There you go. No more - shaking heads  when someone asks about chain lubrication or "it is maintenance free". 

 

I actually think @Longhaulpaul is the definitive source for info on chains. He has gone through more of them on the T7 than anyone. He has posted about them before. Maybe he will chime in. 

 

[john_aero]

Can of  belray dry chain lube ever few weeks

 

after I wash bike I like to clean and re lube chain

I like dry lube as created less mess and also seems to attract less dirt and shite 

 

[john_aero]

However for fun I have orders a cheap oiler from china

 

had plenty other ones like Scott oiler etc and normally I take them off

 

 

[Windblown]

D.I.D says the same thing right on their website. CLEAN & LUBE every 300 miles.  Chains can absolutely be maintenance free though. They just won't last as long....

 

I basically never clean a chain unless I screw up and use a wax or heavy lube which for dirt use makes a pretty effective valve grinding compound*.  But I do lube my chains, and they sound better, run better, look better, for longer because I do.  But for me it's more like every 2k miles if I'm traveling, less if it's local trips. Not that more often would not be better, I just can't be bothered to do it once a day (or more).

 

*  (Chain does get a light once over when power washing the bike)

Edited February 23, 2023 by Windblown

[Hollybrook]

@Windblownwhat chain lube do you use? 

[Dougie]

You’ll never beat an auto lube system. Dirt doesn’t stick to real lube, just sticky chain sprays. A scottoiler washes all the crap off at the same time. Dry rubber no longer seals and gets ripped apart, losing the enclosed grease. Anyone who says they don’t lube a chain has a shite, loose, worn chain. Bar none. 

[winddown]

I prefer full cream milk in my coffee, a good half an inch worth but ol mate uses trim, which I think is crazy to me, but not as bad as the neighbor who uses skim.  I'm not anal about it though, basic supermarket full cream is fine, I won't waste money on the 'brand' name milk.  I could never understand why people would do that?  If I'm going to be out all day riding though I'll often crack a tin of condensed milk in the morning and use that in my coffee for extra energy.  But each to his own hey.

[mpatch]

I look at it as a time spent thing, spend  all kinds of time and messing around to get an extra couple thousand miles out of a chain vs replace it a bit more often if that’s the case. 
Id rather not spend a few hours cumulatively messing with lube vs the alternative. 
Let’s say you get 15k with zero maintenance and 20k with being anal, a new chain is about $100, not worth my time or worry to save a few dollars on something that’s going to wear out no matter what I do. 

Keep your chain clean and try and avoid mud and pressure washing other than that I don’t think it matters much. 
Chains don’t just fail, they give you lots of heads up baring odd circumstances. 

[Windblown]

1 hour ago, Hollybrook said:

@Windblownwhat chain lube do you use? 

 

Mostly whatever is handy. For street/dirt I generally use an "off-road" lube which is a lighter weight oil typically. Doesn't really last all that long but also doesn't become a sticky gunky mess. I tried the Dupont dry lube some folks were recommending for awhile but it didn't seem to do much of anything it's about the equivalent of spraying the chain with silicone IMHO. Works for a few minutes... For all road use I have used chain wax. Seemed to last great and keep the chain nice for extended periods but man it's nasty when mixed with dirt.

 

Anyways... I generally lube the chain after a wash because I don't use gentle soaps and it does degrease the chain to a degree. Or after a few days on the road during a tip. Or same day if I've had to run thru much road ice removal chemicals (we all know how nasty that stuff is). 

 

 

 

 

[mpatch]

https://youtu.be/VnPYdcbcAe0

 

I agree with his conclusion. 

[random1781]

2 minutes ago, mpatch said:

I look at it as a time spent thing, spend  all kinds of time and messing around to get an extra couple thousand miles out of a chain vs replace it a bit more often if that’s the case. 
Id rather not spend a few hours cumulatively messing with lube vs the alternative. 
Let’s say you get 15k with zero maintenance and 20k with being anal, a new chain is about $100, not worth my time or worry to save a few dollars on something that’s going to wear out no matter what I do. 

Keep your chain clean and try and avoid mud and pressure washing other than that I don’t think it matters much. 
Chains don’t just fail, they give you lots of heads up baring odd circumstances. 

I'm about 14k with my OEM chain. Don't know how many times it was lubed in its first 3.2k before I bought it, but it's been lubed twice since then. It's rusty and a bit stiffer than ideal. There's one kink in it, which I'm pretty sure was from slamming it into a rock - the 10k miles I've put on it have not been kind. I'll replace it in the next 1k-3k miles to be on the safe side, and that's infinitely preferable to lubing it every 300 miles.

 

For perspective, my last bike was a 1290, which also had a 525. I had about 23k on that when I replaced it, and it was pretty kinked, along with sprockets that were worn down pretty good. It was lubed with an oiler for about half that time, and I think that probably did extend the life of it a few thousand miles, but it was probably the 160 HP and heavy wrist that did the most damage. On a Tenere, I think this is less apt to happen.

 

A manufacturer/distributor has an answer based on how they derive their specs and also their acceptable liability. I appreciate that, and as riders we also have to determine the risks we take. Like @mpatchsaid, chains generally don't fail without obvious signs beforehand, and I think there's a pretty wide threshold for a 525 on a Tenere to observe something wrong before failure. Tension definitely matters and will murder a chain, but I'll stay dry and probably break even on frequency of chain swaps vs. lubing every 300 miles.

[mpatch]

10 minutes ago, random1781 said:

I'm about 14k with my OEM chain. Don't know how many times it was lubed in its first 3.2k before I bought it, but it's been lubed twice since then. It's rusty and a bit stiffer than ideal. There's one kink in it, which I'm pretty sure was from slamming it into a rock - the 10k miles I've put on it have not been kind. I'll replace it in the next 1k-3k miles to be on the safe side, and that's infinitely preferable to lubing it every 300 miles.

 

For perspective, my last bike was a 1290, which also had a 525. I had about 23k on that when I replaced it, and it was pretty kinked, along with sprockets that were worn down pretty good. It was lubed with an oiler for about half that time, and I think that probably did extend the life of it a few thousand miles, but it was probably the 160 HP and heavy wrist that did the most damage. On a Tenere, I think this is less apt to happen.

 

A manufacturer/distributor has an answer based on how they derive their specs and also their acceptable liability. I appreciate that, and as riders we also have to determine the risks we take. Like @mpatchsaid, chains generally don't fail without obvious signs beforehand, and I think there's a pretty wide threshold for a 525 on a Tenere to observe something wrong before failure. Tension definitely matters and will murder a chain, but I'll stay dry and probably break even on frequency of chain swaps vs. lubing every 300 miles.

I almost tag you more often than I should here and on adv but IMHO you’re one of the few that actually rides a ton off road and does it with a dog on board and isn’t too biased because someone is giving you free Shet to review. 

[Windblown]

10-15k  sounds about right for mixed use quality o-ring chain with minimal care. 15-20k with regular care. 20K+ with a ddecent auto-luber.

 

I replace chains very shortly after any signs of trouble.  Noticeable tight vs loose sections, kinks, sudden increase in stretch, etc.   A chain failure at speed sucks. Chains and sprockets are cheap by comparison, and yes, new sprockets every time a new chain goes on any bike I intend to put miles on.   I might be a bit lax on chain maintenance but I'm down right religious when it comes time to replace part of the system. Chains and sprockets wear mate, a lot. Replacing one piece of the puzzle is for emergencies only unless one just likes to blow money. New chain with old sprockets or vice versa is like buying a peck of apples and throwing them in the bin with a bunch of rotten ones when you get home.

 

So.... how many miles y'all going between oil changes on the engine?  I've got a theory....  

 

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Windblown

[random1781]

1 hour ago, Windblown said:

10-15k  sounds about right for mixed use quality o-ring chain with minimal care. 15-20k with regular care. 20K+ with a ddecent auto-luber.

 

I replace chains very shortly after any signs of trouble.  Noticeable tight vs loose sections, kinks, sudden increase in stretch, etc.   A chain failure at speed sucks. Chains and sprockets are cheap by comparison, and yes, new sprockets every time a new chain goes on any bike I intend to put miles on.   I might be a bit lax on chain maintenance but I'm down right religious when it comes time to replace part of the system. Chains and sprockets wear mate, a lot. Replacing one piece of the puzzle is for emergencies only unless one just likes to blow money. New chain with old sprockets or vice versa is like buying a peck of apples and throwing them in the bin with a bunch of rotten ones when you get home.

 

So.... how many miles y'all going between oil changes on the engine?  I've got a theory....  

 

LOLOLOLOLOL.

This is all an interesting delve into how components are spec'd versus actual use.

 

Oil is both blood and unseen, or in other words it has more affect on more components, all of which you can't easily assess, so the threshold to change is completely different.

 

I took my Tenere into a dealership for its 6k-mile service at about 5.5k. When I got there they told me that I was almost 2k overdue, which confused me since the manual I got from this forum told me the first service was due at 6k. Come to find out, the manual published in North America calls for services (and oil changes) every 4k miles, versus the manual for the EU, which says 6k miles.

 

So we already have a manufacturer discrepancy, which is a 50% increase in interval from NA to EU for the same bike. We can assume that the difference comes from how they expect their target markets to treat their bikes, but that is an assumption. I think it's fair to say that there's some leeway built in there for both numbers, so while I was alarmed when I was told that I was significantly overdue for an oil change, I took note of it but didn't stay up at night. Again I can only guess, but I'd say that for my style of riding, 6k is the upper limit of how often I should change the oil, and probably 4k is more reasonable. I didn't feel like I greatly exceeded the specs, but I probably did a little.

 

Again looking back at my 1290, the recommended oil change interval was 9k miles. That's a lot, even for me, so I scaled back quite a bit out of paranoia. It was really a best-guess based on how I rode the bike. Commuting in temperate climate? 7-8k. Endless sand in Baja? 4k-5k. I'm simplifying here since the engines are completely different, but the oil capacities for the T7 and 1290 are 2.6L and 3.6L respectively. Total capacity makes a difference, so if we assume the tech is on the same level, the 6k/9k oil change intervals are on par for overall capacity. In the scheme of trying to assess why manufacturers say what they do and what it actually means

 

At least we can look at a chain and assess its condition. The chain wears on the sprockets and has the risk damaging the engine case if it snaps. By extension, if the sprockets are worn, you can assume that the chain itself has experienced wear. The risk of snapping, I think, is generally predictable based on observing the chain/sprockets. I'll still err on the side of caution with the chain, and similar to @WindblownI'll replace the sprockets too because they are a system and why not? They're pretty damn cheap and are pretty important to how you go forward.

 

Caveat emptor.

Edited February 24, 2023 by random1781

[williestreet]

I like to clean it after a long ride when the chain is a bit warm as it helps in removal of the grime.  

I use a toothbrush or a small paint brush and diesel fuel.   Dip them in diesel fuel  and spin the rear wheel while wiping the chain top/bottom and sides.   After the grime is removed I dry with a rag and then lube the chain with gear oil.

 

An old style oiling can filled with gear oil works well for applying the oil.    I always let it sit over night with an old piece of cardboard under the bike to catch anything that drips. 

 

Gear lube is nice and light and yes it will fling off, but it doesn't catch and hold dirt like sticky chain lubes.  Also much easier to clean off the rims and plastic.  

Sometimes I will use Maxima chain wax, but gear oil is much better in my opinion.

 

 

[mpatch]

49 minutes ago, random1781 said:

This is all an interesting delve into how components are spec'd versus actual use.

 

Oil is both blood and unseen, or in other words it has more affect on more components, all of which you can't easily assess, so the threshold to change is completely different.

 

I took my Tenere into a dealership for its 6k-mile service at about 5.5k. When I got there they told me that I was almost 2k overdue, which confused me since the manual I got from this forum told me the first service was due at 6k. Come to find out, the manual published in North America calls for services (and oil changes) every 4k miles, versus the manual for the EU, which says 6k miles.

 

So we already have a manufacturer discrepancy, which is a 50% increase in interval from NA to EU for the same bike. We can assume that the difference comes from how they expect their target markets to treat their bikes, but that is an assumption. I think it's fair to say that there's some leeway built in there for both numbers, so while I was alarmed when I was told that I was significantly overdue for an oil change, I took note of it but didn't stay up at night. Again I can only guess, but I'd say that for my style of riding, 6k is the upper limit of how often I should change the oil, and probably 4k is more reasonable. I didn't feel like I greatly exceeded the specs, but I probably did a little.

 

Again looking back at my 1290, the recommended oil change interval was 9k miles. That's a lot, even for me, so I scaled back quite a bit out of paranoia. It was really a best-guess based on how I rode the bike. Commuting in temperate climate? 7-8k. Endless sand in Baja? 4k-5k. I'm simplifying here since the engines are completely different, but the oil capacities for the T7 and 1290 are 2.6L and 3.6L respectively. Total capacity makes a difference, so if we assume the tech is on the same level, the 6k/9k oil change intervals are on par for overall capacity. In the scheme of trying to assess why manufacturers say what they do and what it actually means

 

At least we can look at a chain and assess its condition. The chain wears on the sprockets and has the risk damaging the engine case if it snaps. By extension, if the sprockets are worn, you can assume that the chain itself has experienced wear. The risk of snapping, I think, is generally predictable based on observing the chain/sprockets. I'll still err on the side of caution with the chain, and similar to @WindblownI'll replace the sprockets too because they are a system and why not? They're pretty damn cheap and are pretty important to how you go forward.

 

Caveat emptor.

The best thing to do is send it off to blackstone for an oil analysis. 
Most people change their oil way too often. 
Modern oils are pretty amazing. 
 

Edited February 24, 2023 by mpatch

[Dougie]

I’d been warning a mate about his lack of maintenance on a chain for a while. Gave him the lube. Going home from work that day (still hasn’t used the lube, too late anyway) his gearbox got ripped apart by his failed chain and he luckily didn’t crash as it was lower speed and not in traffic. He’d be dead if he’d got another mile onto the motorway. The oil is mainly for keeping the o rings wet to keep the grease inside to do its job. The protection for wear on the outer chain is secondary, feel free to not bother with that. It’s not my opinion, it’s what it does.
Wasn’t trying to be cantankerous.

Although I do like a good creamy milk in my brew.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Dougie

[Hibobb]

15 hours ago, williestreet said:

An old style oiling can filled with gear oil works well for applying the oil.    I always let it sit over night with an old piece of cardboard under the bike to catch anything that drips. 

William, I am 100% with the above! May I add (for me),"Wipe excess oil off in the morning, that is the extent of my cleaning"

I change my chain when is wears to the length limit (239.3mm) Any talk of XXXXX number miles or condition ridden is silly... wear is wear.

I change my sprockets when they look "hooked" (subjective term, I know...)

If my front sprocket is "hooked" and the chain is well within its wear limits, I just change the front sprocket.

If my chain shows "kinks" I am an utter failure and should be driving a belt-drive moped...

 

 

   

 

Does Yamaha have their ABC's mixed up?

A+B/2=C in my world! (Pin C/L distance)

Edited February 24, 2023 by Hibobb

[Simmons1]

I find this thread very comical just like an oil thread.

 

Do what ever makes you happy and live with the chain life you get.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by Simmons1

[thepointchris]

1 hour ago, Simmons1 said:

I find this thread very comical just like an oil thread.

 

Do what ever makes you happy and live with the chain life you get.  

but I'm dreaming of being even HAPPIER 

[winddown]

Yesterday I was out riding around on the sport bike and stopped in a park beside a well worn three year old T7, eventually the young rider came over from the coffee shop and we had a chat.  First thing I said was, "No offense mate, but you're really not into adjusting your chain are you?"  I mean this chain was hanging down like a pair of dog's balls, I've never seen anything like it.   He lubed it, there was plenty of splatter on the rim, a 30,000km original chain, I though of the chain guides we install to prevent an off and just scratched my head. 

 

He was an offroad rider for sure, born in the saddle.  He said "yeah, I need to replace it"  We had a good yarn and he told me stories about doing 200 km/h down dirt roads, good roads mind you.  I still find that a little hard to believe, especially the way the screen bounces around, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.    Ahhh to be young again, or at least to be very experienced.   I rode off home on my little RR, taking some of the corners a bit faster than usual as a homage to the young bloke.  Today I'm taking a ride on the T7, but I won't bother checking the chain tension.  I did that yesterday

[Rider 101]

Bugger cleaning the chain! I might get my hands oily. 

I do hose it ( gently ) when washing the bike and when dry I use Inox MX9

 

MX9 No Chukka Chain Lube

---

MX9 No Chukka Chain Lube - Originally designed for the motorbike industry, INOX- MX9 No Chukka Chain Lube is now in high demand for numerous applications such as, hoists,

 

[mjepps72]

So far cleaning every few rides, and light WD40 spray to keep the water out gets me 15k per chain. I haven't fully lubed a chain in decades. 

[winddown]

1 hour ago, Rider 101 said:

Bugger cleaning the chain! I might get my hands oily. 

 

 

 

Latex gloves, I keep a heap in a tupperware box right there on the workbench.  But you're right, aside from pushbike chains I have never cleaned one either.

[Rider 101]

I'll reserve the latex for something else 

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Like doing air filters.