ABS OFF-ROAD BUTTON NOT WORKING

[Hakman]

Hello folks,

 

I've recently acquired a T7, 2020.  

 

However, the ABS/OFFROAD button is not working.

 

My friend has a T7 too, and comparing his and mine are the following:
 

• Turning the ignition on, not the engine
  • On turning the ignition, the ABS OFF-ROAD light (bottom right corner on the cluster, aka meter assembly ) illuminates and turns off once settled - This is the correct behaviour on my friends working T7
  • My T7, the light doesn't light at all
• Pushing and holding the ABS/OFFROAD button
  • Working T7, ABS-OFF light (bottom right of cluster) lights up and the text "OFFROAD" appears in the centre of the dash
  • My T7, nothing.  Just nothing.

 

Other checks:

• All fuses are intact in both houses
• Took apart the cluster and measured the voltage on the push button when pushed/released and can see the voltage changes indicating it's working and a signal should be sent to either the ABS-ECU or ECU, or both.
• Hooked up an OBD reader and no codes appearing
• ABS sensor wiring looks fine

 

When did it last work or what changed since it last did?

• About a month ago, when chap I bought it from took it for an MOT.  Before the MOT he checked it and it worked fine.  
• However, rear brake pads were changed, but button wasn't checked after MOT.
• When the bike was brought to me in a van, the driver left the ignition on and drained the battery.

 

Been looking at the circuit diagram and can see there's signals going to ABS-ECU and ECU from the meter assembly (cluster).  However, not willing to probe them as the probes I have are chunky and fear being kak-handed and shorting something.

Some of the signals go out to the 4-pin header for a diagnostics tool.   Planning to head to a yammy dealer next week, but £40 for them to plug it in.  

 

In summary, can't find anything online or anyone with a similar problem apart from one chap on YouTube who sliced his ABS front sensor wire on his radiator guard.  

Any help much appreciated 

 

 

 

[Ray Ride4life]

It looks like the ABS pump is faulty or the previous owner had it disabled somehow.
Your topic titel can be changed from "offroad button not working" to "ABS not working" because the fact that the light is nog lighting up when you turn the ignition is telling that the ABS is not working in its whole. Without that working there is nothing to do for the offroad switch.

[Tenerider]

20 minutes ago, Ray Ride4life said:

It looks like the ABS pump is faulty or the previous owner had it disabled somehow.
Your topic titel can be changed from "offroad button not working" to "ABS not working" because the fact that the light is nog lighting up when you turn the ignition is telling that the ABS is not working in its whole. Without that working there is nothing to do for the offroad switch.

I have also suspected this, but wasn't totally sure.

I think the manual also says: If the ABS light doesn't light up at start (it stays on until your speed is above 10km/h or so), the ABS system is not working.

[Hakman]

The ABS to the left illuminates when ignition is on and does go off after 10mph or whatever speed it is.  That bit is fine and applying brakes abs does work.  

 

Previous had nothing done to the ABS pump.  He had just removed the fuse when offroading, as mentioned in other threads, as he was fed up turning it off each time when stopping.

 

So ABS, to my best of knowledge is functionally working, but the button is not, hence title. 

[Hakman]

Assuming a faulty ABS pump, what would be the symptoms to check that and would I not see a CEL light appear or some OBD code? 

 

How would go about checking it?

[Ray Ride4life]

6 minutes ago, Hakman said:

The ABS to the left illuminates when ignition is on and does go off after 10mph or whatever speed it is.  That bit is fine and applying brakes abs does work. 

In the OP you wrote that is lit up on your friends bike and NOT on yours, now you say it does illuminate?
I reacted based on the information the light didn't came on at all.

[Hakman]

1 minute ago, Ray Ride4life said:

In the OP you wrote that is lit up on your friends bike and NOT on yours, now you say it does illuminate?
I reacted based on the information the light didn't came on at all.

In the OP I put in brackets that it's the ABS offroad light in the bottom right corner if the cluster.  Sorry, I could of made that clearer.

[Hakman]

Let me clarify the lights as there are 2 ABS lights.

 

1st lets call it the ABS warning (left side)

2nd lets call it ABS off (bottom right)

 

On friends bike, both lights illuminate on ignition. 

 

On my bike, only the ABS warning comes and stays on.  

 

Both bikes ABS warning comes on and goes off after specified speed limit.

 

My bike's ABS off light doesn't come on when ABS button is pushed or ignition.

[Windblown]

If your normal ABS light comes on when the ignition is turned on and goes out during normal operation I'd scratch ABS off the list of problems (Besides, you have stated the ABS works fine). 

 

I'd suggest verifying the off-road switch itself is functioning as a next step.

[Tenerider]

1 minute ago, Windblown said:

If your normal ABS light comes on when the ignition is turned on and goes out during normal operation I'd scratch ABS off the list of problems (Besides, you have stated the ABS works fine). 

 

I'd suggest verifying the off-road switch itself is functioning as a next step.

As far as I read his first post @Hakman has already measured that.

[Windblown]

19 minutes ago, Tenerider said:

As far as I read his first post @Hakman has already measured that.

 

Missed that. Thanks. I  re-read first post again. 

 

So the ABS system itself sounds like it is working fine and only the ABS disable feature is broken. Given no errors or other tale tail signs of trouble I wonder if it actually is broken? Perhaps only the ABS offroad  indicator(s) are not working.  I only suggest that since the op says the light does not come on when the ignition is first cycled on.  It might be worth giving the button one long press after starting the bike and running down a safe piece of road and trying to lock the rear brake. 

 

Failing that long shot, if I really wanted it to work I'd probably take it into the shop at this point and see what the factory diagnostics came up with as they are usually more in depth than what you can get on most ODBII readers. 

 

Or just disable the rear ABS permanently and have the ability to lock the rear when desired and the safety net of having ABS active on the front and never have to think about the button again.

[Hakman]

Thanks for the inputs so far.

 

I need take the bike out and give it a good brake test and make sure that rear ABS is actually working in application.  I think they are, as was out other day, but best check again.  But away till tomorrow so will update then.

 

Heading to dealer on Tuesday and justgrt them to plug into diagnostics.  

 

Only thing that's really happened since we know it last worked was the rear pads were changed by the MOT guy and a drained battery when bike was delivered to me.

 

Unless the rear ABS sensor ain't right?  Not sure how to check apart from visual inspection that I've done on both front and rear cables for the sensors.

 

I'll also upload videos of working and not working bikes to YouTube and share the links once I'm home for reference.

[Tenerider]

38 minutes ago, Hakman said:

Thanks for the inputs so far.

 

I need take the bike out and give it a good brake test and make sure that rear ABS is actually working in application.  I think they are, as was out other day, but best check again.  But away till tomorrow so will update then.

 

Heading to dealer on Tuesday and justgrt them to plug into diagnostics.  

 

Only thing that's really happened since we know it last worked was the rear pads were changed by the MOT guy and a drained battery when bike was delivered to me.

 

Unless the rear ABS sensor ain't right?  Not sure how to check apart from visual inspection that I've done on both front and rear cables for the sensors.

 

I'll also upload videos of working and not working bikes to YouTube and share the links once I'm home for reference.

You could check the distance between ABS sensor and the ABS/Speedo ring. Service manual mentions the acceptable distance.

But I assume if these are out of spec, the normal ABS light should NOT turn off at all.

[Hakman]

So the video of how the ABS SHOULD operate: 

 

 

 

 

And the video of my bike, NOT working:

 

 

 

[Cruizin]

On 4/8/2023 at 2:05 PM, Hakman said:

Hello folks,

 

I've recently acquired a T7, 2020.  

 

However, the ABS/OFFROAD button is not working.

 

My friend has a T7 too, and comparing his and mine are the following:
 

• Turning the ignition on, not the engine
  • On turning the ignition, the ABS OFF-ROAD light (bottom right corner on the cluster, aka meter assembly ) illuminates and turns off once settled - This is the correct behaviour on my friends working T7
  • My T7, the light doesn't light at all
• Pushing and holding the ABS/OFFROAD button
  • Working T7, ABS-OFF light (bottom right of cluster) lights up and the text "OFFROAD" appears in the centre of the dash
  • My T7, nothing.  Just nothing.

 

Other checks:

• All fuses are intact in both houses
• Took apart the cluster and measured the voltage on the push button when pushed/released and can see the voltage changes indicating it's working and a signal should be sent to either the ABS-ECU or ECU, or both.
• Hooked up an OBD reader and no codes appearing
• ABS sensor wiring looks fine

 

When did it last work or what changed since it last did?

• About a month ago, when chap I bought it from took it for an MOT.  Before the MOT he checked it and it worked fine.  
• However, rear brake pads were changed, but button wasn't checked after MOT.
• When the bike was brought to me in a van, the driver left the ignition on and drained the battery.

 

Been looking at the circuit diagram and can see there's signals going to ABS-ECU and ECU from the meter assembly (cluster).  However, not willing to probe them as the probes I have are chunky and fear being kak-handed and shorting something.

Some of the signals go out to the 4-pin header for a diagnostics tool.   Planning to head to a yammy dealer next week, but £40 for them to plug it in.  

 

In summary, can't find anything online or anyone with a similar problem apart from one chap on YouTube who sliced his ABS front sensor wire on his radiator guard.  

Any help much appreciated 

 

 

 

Im shocked the dealer wants to charge you for that.  

[Hakman]

Update:

Yamaha dealer plugged-in their wee diagnostics tool and no issues there.

 

Since it was a drop-in visit, they want me to come back next week to try a different cluster from a bike in the shop and see if that's the issue and leave the bike with them for the day - (that's the £40 diagnostics, not just to plug in the tool .  Makes sense... I actually thought just to plug-in the tool at first).

 

More to follow next week.  

[katana]

As a quick disable, remove the RHS black side cover behind the tank and unplug the ABS sensor wire there.

[Hakman]

Okay, an update and solution 

 

So have replaced the button and all good apart from LED light.  Got one from my good mate Dave (legend BTW) who had one in his work lab. (After spending ages taking old routers apart to find a similar surface mounted button but to no avail).

 

I beeped out the pins and the button was clearly faulty as shown in the video below:

 

 

In the absence of a good solder station and work bench that was ESD safe, I was reluctant to start removing components until I was sure that was needed.  So I tried wiring in a similar button over the existing, but that didn't work. (I know what some might be thinking when they see this; making an ABS button is a bit more involved than this so it's on when you switch the ignition on/off.  Since a momentary signal is sent to the micro-controller, a toggle switch here won't work on it's own.  Will need something to measure the initial state, then switch it to keep in that state depending on the switches position.  Will revisit in future )

 

After applying a bit of heat from the iron, the problem made itself clearer and that was the pins were shorted.  Cause of faulty button, moisture got in and I don't really know how, have only had the bike for 2-months.  Last last owner swapped dashes (but had mileage corrected) as he broke his from his Garmin GPS mount and moisture got, which we found out after getting in touch.  He didn't mention the change as it had all been working fine when he sold it.

 

 

Got the new button installed and it worked.  However, no LED light.  Putting the multimeter in diode mode and measuring the forward & reverse voltages (and comparing to other ones) it's clear that it needs replacing too.  This will be done at a later date.... it's enough that the "OFFROAD" text now appears on the display.

 

 

 

NOTE:  If anyone reading this ever has to do this or removes the dash, you may see the "check engine light"(CEL) come on once you've put it back on.  SOLUTION: Take the bike for a good spin first and then clear the codes using an ODB reader.  Anything after that, then it's likely something you'll need to check .

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

 

 

[Lewie]

Great result