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H20ham

Progressive spring

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H20ham

Like many proprietary progressive springs. There doesnt seem to be any  information.

Anyones guess, they start at about 75+ lbs and go up?

 

kind regards

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H20ham

Yes, wondering on the progressive springs

normally the are too soft

any experience on other adv bikes with progressive

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gone2seed

I am not a suspension guru but this is how A guy called Max explained  them to me.

Straight rate springs are progressive.

A spring rated at .80kg/mm will take  .80 kg to compress it 1mm.

It will take twice that or 1.6 kg to compress it  2 mm.

It will take another .8 kg or 2.4 kgs for 3 mm of compression. 

That’s .8,1.6, 2.4kg of compression to get 1,2,3mm of travel.

“That Seems pretty “progressive “ to me “  😉

Edited by gone2seed
confusion

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Motoadventure

I am the same not much idea with suspension. I have done 4000 miles with 1000 off road. I hated the suspension at first taking the enamel off my teeth each time I hit a pothole. (I am 17 Stone in weight for your info) so I have spent several rides with a few tools adjusting a bit at a time.

I now find the suspension nice and plush and would advise perseverance before splashing out a load of cash.

 

There are a lot of suspension specialists willing to take you of your hard earned cash for bad advise. As an adventure bike it is fine I ride hard off and on road but at the end of the day if you are doing triple jumps etc it is not a MX bike. 

 

 

I will try and post my settings for it over the weekend if that helps 

 

Cheers Mick          

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gone2seed

Thanks Mick,

I broke down and looked up the conversion for stones to pounds just now.

 For those of you in the dark, like me 5 minutes ago- Look it up.( maybe you will remember it 5 minutes later, I prolly won’t)

 Anyway, I agree. Get it. Play with the clickers. Find a setting that works for you.

      I may buy a shock spring initially but will wait till next winter for a revalve .

                      Cheers

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r2r
4 hours ago, Motoadventure said:

I will try and post my settings for it over the weekend if that helps     

That would be great. Thanks.

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H20ham

The average weight of a Japanese man is 137lbs (its been a few centuries since i measured anything with my hand or a stone)

The average weight of an American is almost 200lbs (though I understand it’s convenient to have a hand available, the stone thing is funny)

guess the spring is somewhere in the middle. I would hope Yamaha kept this in mind. Rather, its a huge difference.

 

If the Yamaha spring is 70lb. And none of the aftermarket start theirs till 90...! And go up to 130 burp.

then there are the progressive. I emailed the manufactures. Have not heard back. Doubt I will. When I asked Eibach about a Mercedes progressive spring I just fitted on my HAMMER. They said no. So I bought H&R who published their rates. (The Eibach was not progressive, rather much too soft. As the car needs to be compressed to set, and the progressive stayed soft through travel)

When a spring is wound, the metal is heated. And formed. There is little magic of progression. The only thing they can do, is tighten the spaces between the springs. Normally at either end.

Spring companies ought to publish base rates, then call them progressive.

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H20ham

Spoke too soon

 

Our progressive rear spring kit is a little firmer than the OEM spring, and best suited for a 190-220 pound rider.

 

Cheers,

 

Morgan Goldbloom | Dealer Development Manager & Customer Service 
Touratech-USA / CycoActive, Inc.

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Motoadventure

Hi Gone to Seed / Chaps. Sorry about that the conversion of 17 st is 238 Lbs or 108 Kg. H20ham looks like I would need a  couple of springs do you do a twin shock conversion? 😁 Will post my settings over the weekend chaps. 

 

Thanks Mick 

 

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Rich TT
4 hours ago, Motoadventure said:

Hi Gone to Seed / Chaps. Sorry about that the conversion of 17 st is 238 Lbs or 108 Kg. H20ham looks like I would need a  couple of springs do you do a twin shock conversion? 😁 Will post my settings over the weekend chaps. 

 

Thanks Mick 

 

I'd say you definitely need a heavier weight spring Mick. It's such a simple and cheap fix to make the bike much more compliant and not bottom out (as it does easily off road with my weight of 14stone / 90kg). Rally Raid products. £89 to transform the bike.

 

Rich

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Motoadventure

Cheers Rich will have a look at that. 

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Suspension101

Definitely need more spring for your weight.

Variable rate can definitely be an advantage for some rear shocks but more sensitive to proper rate.

Straight rate or linear spring will have similar increase per mm throughout its stroke.

Variable or non linear spring will increase the per mm rate at some point depending on how it is wound.

Some are a stepped spring similar to Eibach that are soft in the initial inch or so and step up to full rate at that point. Some are more linear in their increase of rate throughout the stroke.

Some are cold rolled and some hot.

Most forks do not want or need variable rate springs with few exceptions. The fork performance is already progressive enough.

The fork can in stock form fit about a 6.4kg spring. Stock it has 5.9kg spring.

Definite improvement for cruising pace. Stock fork spring pre-load is about 13mm. More than that likely not good unless your a lot heavier or have lots of front end added weight. If lighter you may want less.

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H20ham

So an unkown base rate (190-220lb person) we would assume any/all western providers of "progressive" springs. Start at about about 90lb minimum. After, of course the implied "progressive" state has been compressed.

So another guess. On our bikes. That for little or no gear on the rear. Given an average western 190 person. A progressive spring will be more "forgiving" or it will be more soft at the beginning. I only presume this because only progressive springs are offered in N America.

Then, I would guess when you load the bike. With 100lbs of racks, panniers, food. Girlfriends etc. That the strongest spring would suit that situation.

 

Available in N American

no affiliation

 TOURATECH PROGRESSIVE REAR SPRING, YAMAHA TENERE 700

Europe has more offerings, including "progressive" and "straight"

 

So the illusive "progressive" spring debate...continues. with no real numbers. simply "progressive"

Edited by H20ham

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Suspension101

Base rate meaning Oem rear spring rate?  7.0kg

Non Linear spring will be similar to straight rate at beginning of stroke but have more impact when adding pre-load therefore when adding weight the variable will be closer to optimum when adjusted.

If running very aggressive or race pace Variable rate will give you more bottoming resistance helping the small 46mm shock cope with hard hits at high speed.

Spring rate generally on a large bike will be optimized by having specific spring rates for each 20 and max of 30lb difference in weight change. Just depending on how refined you want your ride.

Each has its place.

Nearly all my non linear rates are custom to my specifications.

The specific start rate, end rate and when the rate changes are vital and not one size fits all.

Straight rate is easier to get a correct rate with less adjustment than a variable. also less expensive.

Although I guess if you slightly abuse the pre-load as an adjuster you can get a variable to work for more range.

Not correcty, but would work.

 

We have taken top 5 pro finishes in EnduroCross with a linkage bike and a variable spring more than once and many wins and top 5s in enduro, Worcs, etc. With testing comes success and that is exactly what it took.

In fact partially due to a variable rate we were able to jump sections others could not in the EC field on more than one occasion, including Taddy, Webb and Haaker. Partially due to the proper spring. Of course credit goes to the rider but suspension was heavily dialed as the rider knows how to do so, and is not forced into following a suspension chart as the team does.

No debate at all.

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Cruizin
18 minutes ago, Suspension101 said:

Base rate meaning Oem rear spring rate?  7.0kg

Non Linear spring will be similar to straight rate at beginning of stroke but have more impact when adding pre-load therefore when adding weight the variable will be closer to optimum when adjusted.

If running very aggressive or race pace Variable rate will give you more bottoming resistance helping the small 46mm shock cope with hard hits at high speed.

Spring rate generally on a large bike will be optimized by having specific spring rates for each 20 and max of 30lb difference in weight change. Just depending on how refined you want your ride.

Each has its place.

Nearly all my non linear rates are custom to my specifications.

The specific start rate, end rate and when the rate changes are vital and not one size fits all.

Straight rate is easier to get a correct rate with less adjustment than a variable. also less expensive.

Although I guess if you slightly abuse the pre-load as an adjuster you can get a variable to work for more range.

Not correcty, but would work.

 

We have taken top 5 pro finishes in EnduroCross with a linkage bike and a variable spring more than once and many wins and top 5s in enduro, Worcs, etc. With testing comes success and that is exactly what it took.

In fact partially due to a variable rate we were able to jump sections others could not in the EC field on more than one occasion, including Taddy, Webb and Haaker. Partially due to the proper spring. Of course credit goes to the rider but suspension was heavily dialed as the rider knows how to do so, and is not forced into following a suspension chart as the team does.

No debate at all.

Think we just found our suspension guru.  I'm working today but will send you a PM this weekend. 

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H20ham

Base rate of said progressive. Like you kindly point out. It works for top riders. Not sure if those of us will ever be that good.

Also, most T7 will be ridden on various terrain. So, not just jumping. Trials inspired technical stuff. Or road. Though I bet many will just be on the road, with some gravel.

As Tourtech points out. 190-220 lbs

so if I want to used the 190-220 progressive spring, and I get it set up well for off road, or scrambling. I will need to readjust when I hi pavement.

Same goes for when I want to load the tail up, and hit some high country camping. I will most likely need to find a “progressive” or just get like Suspension101 points out, an inexpensive linear spring. For that weight I am going to carry.

 

Kind Regards 

Edited by H20ham

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sebti

I have mounted a hyperpro spring today. It is stronger than OEM. µOEM turns are 11,3mm diameter; hyperpro spring is 12,1.

Remove the shock is very easy !

I didn't ride yet.


Find "mobylette rollers" on social medias ! 🙂

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Totti
11 hours ago, sebti said:

I have mounted a hyperpro spring today. It is stronger than OEM. µOEM turns are 11,3mm diameter; hyperpro spring is 12,1.

Remove the shock is very easy !

I didn't ride yet.

I would very much like to hear Your opinions on this new spring.


"Eternally, unavoidably, eventually, all paths will lead to the cemetery." Sentenced

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sebti

I will try to go to ride a little with luggages and will give it 😉


Find "mobylette rollers" on social medias ! 🙂

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sebti

I made a video to show how it's easy to remove the rear shock 😉

https://youtu.be/N8TjFA9v2EM

Edited by sebti
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Find "mobylette rollers" on social medias ! 🙂

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sebti

I have written an article about the progressive spring on my website ! 😉

IMG_20200213_184444-scaled.jpg

Pourquoi et comment changer le ressort d'amortisseur de la Yamaha Tenere 700? Explications théoriques, mesures et essais sont ici !

Sorry, it's In French but google translate is our friend 😄

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Find "mobylette rollers" on social medias ! 🙂

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