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Self extraction w/block & tackle


Windblown

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Anyone else carry a self-extraction block & pulley system? If so what do use/like?

 

I have something mildly dumb in mind for an upcoming solo ride so I figured it would be a good day to break out the block & tackle system I made up a couple of years ago and practice a bit to make sure I still remembered how to rig it. 🙂

 

This is my block & tackle rescue pouch. It has enough pulleys, slings, etc to make a few different block & tackle systems but my goto for self rescue is a 5-1 complex pulley system rig.

Ropebag.jpg.b5b917d59de9b4c1c417f6db25c3e189.jpg

 

 

Parked on a slope to get set up:

t700hillside.jpg.06ee18048a28d76e08a7ca4b8b28acc7.jpg

 

 

Rigged up:

t700rigged.jpg.9cf60f79265e3901e38036ab9bd524c7.jpg

 

Bike side: Sling for around forks Carabiner & a progress capture pulley which is INVALUABLE and less hassle than setting up progress minding prussiks.

bikeside.jpg.bc9fcfd615f0436094357343c6a1d166.jpg

 

 

Tree (or other anchor) side:  Sling, carabiner, plain pulley, small sling for sliding friction hitch, another carabiner & another plain pulley.  

Treeside.jpg.038ecdf2e1380815c4f826ccabd0ee80.jpg

 

Ready to try it out.

t700vidframe1.jpg.713c3b746001e2433e420450b8d5eff9.jpg

 

 

And.... Easy-peasy. I literally didn't even break a sweat. 

t700vidframe21.jpg.0b2777ce7796a0d24c68f52e0f5af411.jpg

 

 

A 5-1 for a solo retrieval  on a heavy bike is the way to go IMHO. 3-1 is fine for a dirt bike or if you have more than one person and one can be pushing/powering bike while the other uses the block & tackle, but solo? I'll take a complex 5-1 set-up with ball bearing pulleys and a progress capture pulley all day every day. I even put the bike in gear and was pulling the bike up the hill while dragging the rear tire. Guess I'm ready to go do something dumb now... 

 

 

Edited by Windblown
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Great stuff! I've thought about carrying some rope an two simple pulleys, but I think I need to think a little bit bigger and follow your ideas. Thanks for posting and for putting your system to the test!

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It’s a shame you can’t pack a Tarres for the difficult bits 😬

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I used to take one of these around for solo travel...

 

ZDrag-Vertical_240x.jpg?v=1594682156

Simplify self recovery with our quick deploy Z-Drag kit. It can sap your energy trying to get your bike unstuck. It can also fall in a way that makes it difficult to pick up. The Z-Drag is a common rig to give you a mechanical...

 

Wound up only using it once, which I guess is a good thing! It's pretty well thought out with how it deploys from the bag, and comes with a laminated instruction card. I know that sounds dumb, but like you mentioned, if you don't practice, you'll forget.

 

I know we're a ways away, but GCAG has a really good sale every year leading up to Christmas...12 days of Christmas and each day one of their items is pretty steeply discounted, which is when I snagged mine.

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18 minutes ago, Alan M said:


It’s a shame you can’t pack a Tarres for the difficult bits 😬

 

Damn right. LOL.

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17 minutes ago, random1781 said:

I used to take one of these around for solo travel...

 

ZDrag-Vertical_240x.jpg?v=1594682156

Simplify self recovery with our quick deploy Z-Drag kit. It can sap your energy trying to get your bike unstuck. It can also fall in a way that makes it difficult to pick up. The Z-Drag is a common rig to give you a mechanical...

 

Wound up only using it once, which I guess is a good thing! It's pretty well thought out with how it deploys from the bag, and comes with a laminated instruction card. I know that sounds dumb, but like you mentioned, if you don't practice, you'll forget.

 

I know we're a ways away, but GCAG has a really good sale every year leading up to Christmas...12 days of Christmas and each day one of their items is pretty steeply discounted, which is when I snagged mine.

 

There are a few pre-built systems out there for sure and I love the simplicity of a simple z-drag but for heavier bikes I really like having quality pulleys and more pulling power. A lot gets lost in any B&T system without pulleys.  The only company I know of that makes a pre-built system using pulleys for motorcycle extraction is BestRest products. 

 

Anyway - I did a little test to measure actual mechanical advantage since I have a digital  load scale.  Using my truck placed in my driveway which has a consistent incline I rigged up the B&T to pull the truck upslope.

 

Static load on the system with the truck in neutral with the system keeping it from rolling down hill was  = 264 lbs. To get the truck to start to roll up the grade took about 282 lbs of force at the bumper hitch.  I didn't get more photos as I was busy pulling and just noted the results.

 

r20230613_163221.jpg.8cac1e702798336dfc460474a9d1e742.jpg

 

I then rigged the load scale to the pull rope end of the system and pulled to see how much force was required to get the truck to start to roll up the grade. 

 

With all pulleys in place it took 71lbs of force to get the truck to start to move uphill so system yielded a 4-1 mechanical advantage.

 

Then I removed two of the three pulleys and substituted carabiners in their place since many systems avoid the extra weight/cost of pulleys. It was still a 5-1 system rigged exactly the same way just with two of the three pulleys swapped for carabiners. 

 

It took 104lbs of force on the pull rope to get the truck to start to move up the grade with this set up yielding a 2.7-1 mechanical advantage.  That's a 39% increase in effort if my math is right.  I'm not all that strong. I'll take all the extra help I can get. 🙂

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@Windblown Dang, that Traxion is a pricey little devil!

 

I can see the value of an extraction system even for easier rides.  A  month ago, I was on a ride where one of my friends on a GS got out of control and eventually hit a tree, ending his ride.  If the tree had not been there, he would have gone down an incline that I doubt we would have been able to extract him from.  That happened on the MABDR on an easy 2-track dirt road, where he bottomed his forks in a muddy  puddle with steep sides on a downhill.  That could have happened to anyone even on an otherwise easy ride.  We were in the woods with no cell service and even my Garmin Messenger (like an InReach) had no satellite coverage.  Riding solo there and going off the embankment would have been a real hassle without the ability to self extract.

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40 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

@Windblown Dang, that Traxion is a pricey little devil!

 

I can see the value of an extraction system even for easier rides.  A  month ago, I was on a ride where one of my friends on a GS got out of control and eventually hit a tree, ending his ride.  If the tree had not been there, he would have gone down an incline that I doubt we would have been able to extract him from.  That happened on the MABDR on an easy 2-track dirt road, where he bottomed his forks in a muddy  puddle with steep sides on a downhill.  That could have happened to anyone even on an otherwise easy ride.  We were in the woods with no cell service and even my Garmin Messenger (like an InReach) had no satellite coverage.  Riding solo there and going off the embankment would have been a real hassle without the ability to self extract.

 

Good point.  I should probably carry it more often especially now with a bit more age.  I resist adding load to a bike and it's always a struggle to balance between carrying tools, parts, & gear for every possible scenario and not becoming a heavy two-wheeled repair shop. 

 

The Traxion is indeed a pricey little bugger.  Prusiks can accomplish the same thing just not as easily or efficiently.  I confess I am spoiled by the Traxion which was initially bought for other rigging/climbing needs but now spends most of it's time in my extraction bag. 

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That stuff looks familiar.  I do a lot of whitewater rafting with my buddies, and we carry the same stuff when we wrap up on big rocks.  But we also have a lot more load carrying capacity on 15-18ft battleships.

 

Curious about how you keep the bike upright if you're solo and trying to haul the rope at the same time?  Sit on the bike, and make sure you can flatfoot the whole system up the hill?

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16 minutes ago, Endopotential said:

That stuff looks familiar.  I do a lot of whitewater rafting with my buddies, and we carry the same stuff when we wrap up on big rocks.  But we also have a lot more load carrying capacity on 15-18ft battleships.

 

Curious about how you keep the bike upright if you're solo and trying to haul the rope at the same time?  Sit on the bike, and make sure you can flatfoot the whole system up the hill?

 

Yeah, pretty much all standard rigging, hauling type gear.  In the example above I simply sat on the bike and hauled it up the hill using both hands as the sling on the forks were keeping the front wheel true.   I've practiced recovery while standing next to the bike using a hip to keep it upright and walk along next to it while hauling but find that harder to do.  As mentioned I did drag it for a ways with the rear wheel locked just to see how it worked out. I've never tried dragging a bike on it's side though.  I'm certain it's doable with the rigging I'm carrying though I'd probably opt to replace the lightweight cord I'm using for the friction hitch with a stronger but less convenient to reset midline knot instead. 

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12 minutes ago, Windblown said:

 

Yeah, pretty much all standard rigging, hauling type gear.  In the example above I simply sat on the bike and hauled it up the hill using both hands as the sling on the forks were keeping the front wheel true.   I've practiced recovery while standing next to the bike using a hip to keep it upright and walk along next to it while hauling but find that harder to do.  As mentioned I did drag it for a ways with the rear wheel locked just to see how it worked out. I've never tried dragging a bike on it's side though.  I'm certain it's doable with the rigging I'm carrying though I'd probably opt to replace the lightweight cord I'm using for the friction hitch with a stronger but less convenient to reset midline knot instead. 

Can you give specs? Size of pulleys, diameter line, length of line etc? I really like your system.  

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6 minutes ago, roygilbo said:

Can you give specs? Size of pulleys, diameter line, length of line etc? I really like your system.  

 

Sure thing.  I should be able to get that. Might need to dig up the rope specs. I'll se what I can get ya.

 

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Posted (edited)

@roygilbo

 

Going to do a bit of a broad based info dump for anyone interested or would like to dig deeper. For anyone reading please keep in mind I am not a certified rigger and I don't do this stuff for a living. Nothing I say here should be construed as expert advice.  You're on your own to properly research and come to your own conclusions. 

 

Materials used in this particular setup: 

100' Main pull rope: 1/4"(6mm) Kevlar Rope with Polyester Jacket - 1200lbs breaking strength

1 - 48" manufactured sling & Handmade sling (just buy 2 slings), very tough, usually around 4000lb breaking strength.

1 - Petzel Micro Traxion progress capture pulley  -562lb safety rated live load load limit (very strong)

2 - No name Swing plate Micro pulleys 562lb working load limit.

1 - Paracord sling used as a friction hitch (brownish gray attached to carbiner with red gate.

 

Misc notes: Carabiners: I'm using an assortment from ones I had on hand that are not slotted and saved for a specific use.  These all happen to be locking carabiners are I prefer them if I were pressed to use any of this kit for a live (as in living) load. Just don't buy those junk unrated hardware store ones and you'll be fine for dragging stuff around.

There is an endless variety of rope styles one can choose from. Some soft, some stiff, some stretchy, some not. Kevlar rope of this style has almost no stretch and runs on the stiff side.  The paracord I'm using as a friction hitch is the weak point of this particular rig (500lb breaking strength). Due to where I have it placed in the system it is not subject to the maximum load in the system and  if it were to fail the progress capture pulley would keep the load (bike) in position while the rig was modified/repaired.  I could use a mini tibloc rope clamp/emergency ascender in place of the paracord friction hitch but for some reason I prefer the friction hitch. 

For those unfamiliar working loads does not equal  breaking or tensile strength.    Generally one should strive to never exceed around 20% of breaking strength for a working load.  

For the standard pulleys you can use pulleys with fixed plates if you want (or carabiners, etc)  I prefer swing plates because they are more versatile as they can be placed anywhere along a rope without having to feed the rope thru it and I prefer ball bearing pulleys as they decrease effort when loaded compared to cheaper alternatives. 

 

* oh - and remember what I said about do your own research?  A friend has already wisely mentioned to me that the Petzl Micro is rated for 8-11mm rope so the rope.  I am using so the rope I am using is smaller diameter than what its rated to be used with. It works, but it's not in spec, along with some other stuff I am sure. So read and study offical documentation, or buy a ready made kit.

 

I just enjoy piecing stuff together. 🙂

 

 

20230615_165959.jpg.baf11a3dcddb6e0a996ffab1a79101fd.jpg

 

 

In this photo: Top is the load/motorcycle side and the side from which you would pull as rigged. Bottom is anchor side.

20230615_165826.jpg.cc942f61a718f9ad4bd46f5fddb54b2c.jpg

 

 

There are a ton of ways to rig stuff. You can rig to pull from the anchor side, the load side, use simple, compound or complex pulley systems.

 

Here is a diagram showing the 5-1 system I'm using this one is similar but uses an extra Prusik on the pulley located on the load side (provides a bit more total length of possible rig for same amount of rope) and I attach to the load directly instead. It also uses a "clutch" pulley (essentially a very expensive progress capture pulley). 

5-1system.jpg.34b2c88d3c0f120be0ff2005ea679a3b.jpg

 

 

Here is a super quick guide to some rigging options/theory. Not a plug for CMC. I'm not sure I even own anything they make but it came up in a quick search. https://www.cmcpro.com/pulleys-and-mechanical-advantage-systems/

 

There are a LOT of books about ropes and rigging.  The only one I have owned that sticks out is a hard bound book called  "On Rope" by Bruce Smith.  I've probably had it for 20 years so I'm sure there are newer references available, hahaha. It was THE bible for SRT back in the day.

 

Any questions let me know. I'll try to answer them as best I can, but as I said, I'm no expert! 

Edited by Windblown
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34 minutes ago, Windblown said:

@roygilbo

 

Going to do a bit of a broad based info dump for anyone interested or would like to dig deeper. For anyone reading please keep in mind I am not a certified rigger and I don't do this stuff for a living. Nothing I say here should be construed as expert advice.  You're on your own to properly research and come to your own conclusions. 

 

Materials used in this particular setup: 

100' Main pull rope: 1/4"(6mm) Kevlar Rope with Polyester Jacket - 1200lbs breaking strength

1 - 48" manufactured sling & Handmade sling (just buy 2 slings), very tough, usually around 4000lb breaking strength.

1 - Petzel Micro Traxion progress capture pulley  -562lb safety rated live load load limit (very strong)

2 - No name Swing plate Micro pulleys 562lb working load limit.

1 - Paracord sling used as a friction hitch (brownish gray attached to carbiner with red gate.

 

Misc notes: Carabiners: I'm using an assortment from ones I had on hand that are not slotted and saved for a specific use.  These all happen to be locking carabiners are I prefer them if I were pressed to use any of this kit for a live (as in living) load. Just don't buy those junk unrated hardware store ones and you'll be fine for dragging stuff around.

There is an endless variety of rope styles one can choose from. Some soft, some stiff, some stretchy, some not. Kevlar rope of this style has almost no stretch and runs on the stiff side.  The paracord I'm using as a friction hitch is the weak point of this particular rig (500lb breaking strength). Due to where I have it placed in the system it is not subject to the maximum load in the system and  if it were to fail the progress capture pulley would keep the load (bike) in position while the rig was modified/repaired.  I could use a mini tibloc rope clamp/emergency ascender in place of the paracord friction hitch but for some reason I prefer the friction hitch. 

For those unfamiliar working loads does not equal  breaking or tensile strength.    Generally one should strive to never exceed around 20% of breaking strength for a working load.  

For the standard pulleys you can use pulleys with fixed plates if you want (or carabiners, etc)  I prefer swing plates because they are more versatile as they can be placed anywhere along a rope without having to feed the rope thru it and I prefer ball bearing pulleys as they decrease effort when loaded compared to cheaper alternatives. 

 

 

20230615_165959.jpg.baf11a3dcddb6e0a996ffab1a79101fd.jpg

 

 

In this photo: Top is the load/motorcycle side and the side from which you would pull as rigged. Bottom is anchor side.

20230615_165826.jpg.cc942f61a718f9ad4bd46f5fddb54b2c.jpg

 

 

There are a ton of ways to rig stuff. You can rig to pull from the anchor side, the load side, use simple, compound or complex pulley systems.

 

Here is a diagram showing the 5-1 system I'm using this one is similar but uses an extra Prusik on the pulley located on the load side (provides a bit more total length of possible rig for same amount of rope) and I attach to the load directly instead. It also uses a "clutch" pulley (essentially a very expensive progress capture pulley). 

5-1system.jpg.34b2c88d3c0f120be0ff2005ea679a3b.jpg

 

 

Here is a super quick guide to some rigging options/theory. Not a plug for CMC. I'm not sure I even own anything they make but it came up in a quick search. https://www.cmcpro.com/pulleys-and-mechanical-advantage-systems/

 

There are a LOT of books about ropes and rigging.  The only one I have owned that sticks out is a hard bound book called  "On Rope" by Bruce Smith.  I've probably had it for 20 years so I'm sure there are newer references available, hahaha. It was THE bible for SRT back in the day.

 

Any questions let me know. I'll try to answer them as best I can, but as I said, I'm no expert! 

Brilliant answer and very thorough.  I am certainly going to research and use the above as guidance.  Many thanks.  😎👍🏻

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well, this thread proved to be valuable to me today.  I was working on my '03YZ250F and after making some changes, I tried unsuccessfully to start it (it turned out to be flooded from messing with a sticking throttle).  At the edge of my side yard, there is a hill down into some thickening forest, with lots of brush and soft soil.  The YZ has quite a bit of compression and you need to get a good run to bump start it.  Since it had been popping a bit, I figured that downhill run would start it with no problem.  Boy, was I wrong!  I got a couple of tries before I was embedded in underbrush with a non-starting bike.

 

I tried to push it up the hill, but the combination of brush, sticks laying on the ground and soft, loamy soil along with the steepness of the hill was too much for me, even with a 210 lb bike.  The heat and humidity didn't help at all.

 

I rigged my gear the same way that @Windblown did for his test and began extricating myself and the bike.  It was a lot harder than I expected, even considering a twist in the rope on the first set of the prusik pulley.  After resetting it and heading back to the YZ, I noticed that the rear wheel was plowing a nice rut -- I had forgotten to put the bike back into neutral after leaning it on a tree while fetching the gear.  😳

 

After shifting the trans into neutral and straightening the lines, the pull was much easier, even when I tried to put my whole weight in the seat to simulate pulling the T700.  I sure was glad to have this gear available.  Without it, I would have had to ask my lovely wife to go into the woods to push the bike out.  That was not something I was looking forward to.  🤣

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Glad it worked out, but sounds like might want to read the following: 😉

 

IMG_0033.jpg.f995b2575349dc9ea2c0eb3dcfeda170.jpg

  • Haha 1

 

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" Oliver Wendell Holmes - Mods - HDB handguards, Camel-ADV Gut guard, 1 finger clutch, The Fix pedal & Rally pipe, RR side/tail rack, RR 90nm spring & Headlight guard, Rally seat, OEM heated grips- stablemate Beta 520RS

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I've been married for over 40 years and don't remember my wife ever mowing the lawn, not even when my foot was in a cast.  She does make a nice dinner, though.  And she has put up with all my faults for a very long time! She's definitely one of the great ones! 

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