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F9 says a 270° crank is wrong

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AZJW Grand Master

AZJW

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Interesting analysis but,  I still love the smoothness and sound of my "wrong" 270° crank.

 

 

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prowlnS10 Community Regular

prowlnS10

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As usual Ryan F9 explains the where, the why, the how in his unique style on topics that other journalists never seem to ever consider 🙂 

 

So, if 270 degree cranks require a 2nd twisting motion during the forging process & the industry currently seems all in....why would it cost more to twist it to 285 vs 270 & why isn't it being done?

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Tenerider Grand Master

Tenerider

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If I've understood him correctly, a 270° twist isn't actually a twist, the crankshaft just gets rotated by 90° on the forge and then the "hammer" hits again?

 

And 285° requires an additional step, or so. Because such an odd rotation isn't readily available on such a forging press/anvil/thing.

 

Just noticing that my forging vocabulary is quite limited 😂

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john_aero Community Regular

john_aero

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Ys i seen that and interesting when go through the calculations of how it works.

 

My understanding was exactly as Tenerider said, to get a true 275 required another step in the crank forging by putting a "twist" or angular rotation into the crack (F9 states KTM are doing this).

 

The "die forging" is done as standard today but was either not available or too expensive for motorcycles when first conceived. today this process is standard however to go that little bit extra again requires a more advanced forging process and tooling. again adding cost to the end user.

 

 

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OK185 Enthusiast

OK185

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I like the CP2 as well but recently rode a KTM 790 and it was an absolute hoot. Lots of fun and adrenaline compared to the more mellow CP2. (If one day my T7 should give up I might for a round of team orange/white lol)

But I think it has to do more with general power output and how it produces it.

And I also think the CP2 is still more effective for offroad riding, regardless of 270 or 275°...

 

Offtopic KTM engine tangent:

That LC8c is definetly a beast of an engine. I also measured it and it was like 10cm shorter than the CP2 and super compact all around and almost no wires or clutter in sight.  (Was on a Duke 790)

The CP2's advantage IMO is in very low RPM, slightly above idle, where it's super smooth while the KTM doesn't like to rev that slow and will start to twitch. Offroad this will be a disadvantage. Once RPM's reach like 3-4.000 the KTM just flies.

Edited by OK185
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Hibobb Mentor

Hibobb

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Ooo Geeze, now I have to sit and listen to the orange goblins gloat about their "perfect" 285 degree cranks when last week they didn't even know they had one.

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Noel McCutcheon Community Regular

Noel McCutcheon

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8 hours ago, Hibobb said:

Ooo Geeze, now I have to sit and listen to the orange goblins gloat about their "perfect" 285 degree cranks when last week they didn't even know they had one.

@Hibobb keep your ear plugs in LOL. If 270 was all wrong (wrong omg,  cake is wrong but mighty good too) then how come our Tenere's start up and run perfectly well for tens of thousands of miles of mega reliable fun, lol. Two-Strokes wrong, Rotary engines wrong but dam good. Guess its just entertainment splitting hairs fun.

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Dougie Mentor

Dougie

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Just think how smug you’ll be with your weird old fashioned 270degree crank as you sail past a 285 degree engine stuck on the side of the road miles from nowhere when you computer says no  😁🍺

ill keep the cp2 thanks. It’s designed to replace the 600. Simple and reliable. Not a 1200. Gotta go before I start on about carbs. 😉

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Tenerider Grand Master

Tenerider

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50 minutes ago, Noel McCutcheon said:

@Hibobb keep your ear plugs in LOL. If 270 was all wrong (wrong omg,  cake is wrong but mighty good too) them how come our Tenere's start up and run perfectly well for tens of thousands of miles of mega reliable fun, lol. Two-Strokes wrong, Rotary engines wrong but dam good. Guess its just entertainment splitting hairs fun.

WORD! 👍👍👍👍👍

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TimmyTheHog Mentor

TimmyTheHog

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5 hours ago, Noel McCutcheon said:

@Hibobb keep your ear plugs in LOL. If 270 was all wrong (wrong omg,  cake is wrong but mighty good too) them how come our Tenere's start up and run perfectly well for tens of thousands of miles of mega reliable fun, lol. Two-Strokes wrong, Rotary engines wrong but dam good. Guess its just entertainment splitting hairs fun.

This is the way I look at it...

 

It is the difference between LOUD fart and SILENCE fart...

 

both get gas out of my system, one just more noticeable than the other once...still deadly and stinks when you smell them...

 

They both get the job done...

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qInvention Community Regular

qInvention

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You say the pumpkins are deadly to those around while the CP2 is not ? 

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TimmyTheHog Mentor

TimmyTheHog

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1 hour ago, qInvention said:

You say the pumpkins are deadly to those around while the CP2 is not ? 

one screams at your face while doing so...the other one sneaks up on you and just as deadly.

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motonap Collaborator

motonap

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1 hour ago, qInvention said:

You say the pumpkins are deadly to those around while the CP2 is not ? 

The pumpkin screams as it goes by, putting a smile on your face and being over engineered and deadly in all manner of speaking.

But then the 'not pumpkin' will keep your smile going for thousands of KMs, possibly your life time and won't bleed your pocket and your heart dry, unlike the pumpkin that will do both with such efforlessness 🤣

Edited by motonap
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Windblown Proficient

Windblown

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I like the guy and understand that he has to come up with stuff to talk about and make it sound interesting...

 

As an aside - I have both a 790 & a T700 and my observations fall pretty much in line with everyone elses that has ridden both.  Engine wise the 790 is more screamer, the CP2 more tractor.  They have very little in common other than both being P-twins.  I enjoy them both. 

 

When asked to tackle something the CP2 says "I got this." 

When asked to tackle something the 790 says "Hold my beer."

 

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qInvention Community Regular

qInvention

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19 hours ago, motonap said:

The pumpkin screams as it goes by, putting a smile on your face and being over engineered and deadly in all manner of speaking.

But then the 'not pumpkin' will keep your smile going for thousands of KMs, possibly your life time and won't bleed your pocket and your heart dry, unlike the pumpkin that will do both with such efforlessness 🤣

So we can say the pumpkin foremost is deadly to itself 😉

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duibhceK Enthusiast

duibhceK

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On 1/31/2024 at 1:14 AM, Windblown said:

When asked to tackle something the CP2 says "I got this." 

When asked to tackle something the 790 says "Hold my beer."

it's funny 'cause it's true 🤣

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Camel ADV Experienced

Camel ADV

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On 2/4/2024 at 10:07 AM, prowlnS10 said:

 

 

 

Driving 4 Answers has a great channel and I'm far more likely to believe what he says over Ryan F9 on this particular topic. 

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Bits and pieces for your adventure bike. Camel-ADV.com

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smd3 Enthusiast

smd3

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7 hours ago, Camel ADV said:

 

 

Driving 4 Answers has a great channel and I'm far more likely to believe what he says over Ryan F9 on this particular topic. 


He’s the GOAT of explaining secondary vibrations!

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chadio Collaborator

chadio

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Fan of Ryan F9. Yet, my world does not revolve around his content.

 

Enjoy your bike, and listen to Hannah of London Grammar for a lesson in primary and secondary vibration.....

 

 

 

 

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