Dead Headlight

[FAR&FURTHER]

Hi everyone from lockdown in Morocco,

 

sad news I have to share today... My headlight seems to be dead completely... no light whatsoever. Everything else works as supposed to work.

 

There are 3 "lights" on the headlight: Aux, Low beam & High beam (as manual calls them).

 

Aux light will turn on when ignition is on.

Low beam will turn on when engine is on.

High beam will turn on when you press the dimmer switch (again manual terminology - just handlebar switch)

 

I've:

1. checked the fuse
2. measured following voltage values at the socket under the right side panel (so harness is fine)
3. verified that the ground is indeed connected to ground (continuity test)
4. took headlight assembly out checked the cable for damage - all fine

 

Could anyone please take measurements as well and see if it's the same? Any further advice?

 

Ignition ON:

Br: 13.46V

Y: 12.15V

YB: ground

L/B: 0.03V

 

Engine ON & High beam OFF:

Br: 14.11V

Y: 13.04V

YB: ground

L/B: -0.26V

High beam indicator: OFF

 

Engine ON & High beam ON:

Br: 14.11V

Y: 0.88V

YB: ground

L/B: 0.88V

High beam indicator: ON

 

Related videos demonstrating the problem:

 

Pavel

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Edited May 14, 2020 by FAR&FURTHER
Add videos

[Tazmool]

I don't have my bike yet, so I can't help with the actual connector voltages, 

 

However, since you have the headlight out, why not try supplying 12v to the individual connectors?  (see if the headlight module is working)
Check the wiring diagrams to see the polarity and which connector pins need +12v & ground, and give it a go.

 

Heck, even with out a wiring diragram, you already measured which connectors have what voltage, try supplying the appropriate headlight wires and see?

Your bike's battery should be the perfect source of dc 12v (make sure the battery is charged up) 

Once youv'e done this step, you should know if your headlight module itself is working or not, which should help with selecting the next step.

 

Tazmool

[bth2]

as above but also double check the earthing by running a lead direct to the battery terminal from the lamps.

[FAR&FURTHER]

6 hours ago, Tazmool said:

I don't have my bike yet, so I can't help with the actual connector voltages, 

 

However, since you have the headlight out, why not try supplying 12v to the individual connectors?  (see if the headlight module is working)
Check the wiring diagrams to see the polarity and which connector pins need +12v & ground, and give it a go.

 

Heck, even with out a wiring diragram, you already measured which connectors have what voltage, try supplying the appropriate headlight wires and see?

Your bike's battery should be the perfect source of dc 12v (make sure the battery is charged up) 

Once youv'e done this step, you should know if your headlight module itself is working or not, which should help with selecting the next step.

 

Tazmool

I can try doing that as well, there should be at least AUX light on in that case. I didn't do it because I measured all the way in the front plug which should eliminate the harness issues but why not give it a shot.

 

And I can try to run the ground from the negative of the battery as bth2 suggests.

[Cruizin]

1 hour ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

I can try doing that as well, there should be at least AUX light on in that case. I didn't do it because I measured all the way in the front plug which should eliminate the harness issues but why not give it a shot.

 

And I can try to run the ground from the negative of the battery as bth2 suggests.

Wish I could help, dont have my bike yet or I'd run out to the Garage and start duplicating your issue. Sorry man! 

[Whitey66]

11 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

My headlight seems to be dead completely... no light whatsoever. ??

 

There are 3 "lights" on the headlight: Aux, Low beam & High beam (as manual calls them).

 

Aux light will turn on when ignition is on.  - This is normal

Low beam will turn on when engine is on. - This is normal

High beam will turn on when you press the dimmer switch (again manual terminology - just handlebar switch)

So is the problem just the high beam not working when switched from low beam?? Is the engine running?

I'll have a look at the wiring diagram and get back to you but it sounds like an issue with the headlight switch or wiring.

 

Quote

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Whitey66

[FAR&FURTHER]

35 minutes ago, Whitey66 said:

 

 

No the problem is that there is no light at all.

 

Quote

 

Aux light will turn on when ignition is on.  - This is normal

Low beam will turn on when engine is on. - This is normal

High beam will turn on when you press the dimmer switch (again manual terminology - just handlebar switch) - This is normal

 

 

Nothing above happens, not even a flick, yet the plug does have voltages I posted above. At least the Aux light (according to the wiring diagram) should light as it does not get the input from the ECU (Blue/Black wire) that the engine is on...

 

Heading to Yamaha MIFA in Agadir, Morocco.

 

Thanks guys you're taking the time.

 

Pavel

[Whitey66]

2 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

No the problem is that there is no light at all.

 

 

Nothing above happens, not even a flick, yet the plug does have voltages I posted above. At least the Aux light (according to the wiring diagram) should light as it does not get the input from the ECU (Blue/Black wire) that the engine is on...

 

Heading to Yamaha MIFA in Agadir, Morocco.

 

Thanks guys you're taking the time.

 

Pavel

You question was very ambiguous sorry. If you have battery voltage and an earth at the headlight module connector, it has to be a faulty headlight module (unless the terminals to the headlight module are loose) as the auxiliary light is wired directly to the brown battery power wire and yellow and black earth through a resistor on the positive side. The high and low beam switching circuits come out of the module, through the headlight and pass switches then back to the headlight module. You can check the function of the headlight switch and pass switch by placing a continuity meter between the blue and black  (L/B ) and the yellow wires on the headlight harness and you should be able to see the circuit change from continuity to open circuit as you move the switch.

Note that you must do a continuity test on an un-powered circuit so disconnect the battery if you're not sure.

Anyway, you will be better off getting this fixed under warranty.

Please let us know what they find as this could be really bad if it's a common problem as you could lose ALL lights while riding at night.

 

This is why I prefer hard wired headlight circuits with separate fuses for high and low beam, if one goes out at night when riding out of town you can flick it to the other beam to save a possible accident. I'm putting an LED light bar on mine so if i'm unlucky enough to lose the headlight at least i'll still have that as a backup. I've only ever lost a headlight at night once and it was on a bumpy bend at about 100 kmh , lucky I knew the road well and reacted quick enough on the headlight switch or god only knows what would have happened 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Whitey66

[bth2]

just a thought. i once had an issue similar on my old mt500. had power to the connector befor the headlight but connect the light up and nothing. turned out to be a fuse with a crack in it. under load the fuse got warm and the crack opened up.

[FAR&FURTHER]

6 hours ago, Whitey66 said:

If you have battery voltage and an earth at the headlight module connector, it has to be a faulty headlight module (unless the terminals to the headlight module are loose) as the auxiliary light is wired directly to the brown battery power wire and yellow and black earth through a resistor on the positive side.

This seems to be the case at the moment, Yamaha connected the bike to diagnostic, checked all the plugs and did their own measurements with multi meter coming to the same conclusion.

 

I've taken the light out and plugged it directly to the extra battery there. Had Y/B for negative and and Br/W (color changes from Bb -> Br/W on the plug). And guess what... nothing.

 

I'll do continuity test on the switches according to procedure as @Whitey66 suggests, but I think we can almost 100% conclude that the unit is busted. Unless of course the short cable or connector into the unit is busted but we can't verify that as we can't take it apart!

 

I'm in contact with Yamaha CZ as well as Yamaha Maroc but the COVID-19 will make this pain in the back side...

 

Pavel

[FAR&FURTHER]

4 hours ago, bth2 said:

just a thought. i once had an issue similar on my old mt500. had power to the connector befor the headlight but connect the light up and nothing. turned out to be a fuse with a crack in it. under load the fuse got warm and the crack opened up.

I've changed the fuse for a new one. But the fact there is no light even if connected directly to the battery... rules out any fuse issues pretty much 100%.

 

Pavel

[ScorpionT16]

Oh man, I hope for the best! On a side note, i love all your videos, I don't have a T7 yet, though thanks to you I ordered the OutEx kit and patiently waiting here in NA for one. 

 

This is the first dead headlight I've heard of, please keep us posted and hopefully it's just a one off and not a problem lots of T7s see. I was thinking of installing some AUX lighting and may just, as a back-up incase something like this happens on a long trip as to not be stuck with no lighting

[Whitey66]

Just out of interest, is the blue high beam indicator on the dash lighting up when high beam is selected or you press the "pass" button with the engine running? 

[FAR&FURTHER]

6 hours ago, Whitey66 said:

Just out of interest, is the blue high beam indicator on the dash lighting up when high beam is selected or you press the "pass" button with the engine running? 

Yes it is.

[FAR&FURTHER]

To all in this thread, there is one CRUCIAL PIECE OF ADVICE I want to pass on!

 

Be very very careful how and what electric accessories you install on your T7! Specs must not exceed what Yamaha OEM accessories are as well as the specs of the AUX and Accessory circuits also SPEAK to your dealer about installing any of those.

 

If I'd install or modify the electric at home and not via my Yamaha dealer I would not be able to repair this under warranty!

[Whitey66]

54 minutes ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

Yes it is.

Sounds even more like the headlight module now. Does the indicator light come on with the headlight disconnected? If it does it confirms that the switches are not the problem, if it doesn't a continuity test will prove it. The problem is that the wiring diagram in the manual doesn't show how the logic board is wired up nor what output the ECU is supplying to it through the blue and black wire. In cases like this the fastest and easiest way is to swap the headlight with a known working unit. 

[Whitey66]

59 minutes ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

To all in this thread, there is one CRUCIAL PIECE OF ADVICE I want to pass on!

 

Be very very careful how and what electric accessories you install on your T7! Specs must not exceed what Yamaha OEM accessories are as well as the specs of the AUX and Accessory circuits also SPEAK to your dealer about installing any of those.

 

If I'd install or modify the electric at home and not via my Yamaha dealer I would not be able to repair this under warranty!

It is also important not to tell them that you have attempted to fix it yourself besides checking and replacing fuses and bulbs etc. that are listed in the owners manual, as they can void your warranty for that too. The safest way to add accessories is through a circuit directly to the battery with the correct size wires and circuit protection fuses fitted for that particular accessory. If you're not sure, ask an expert.

[FAR&FURTHER]

23 hours ago, Whitey66 said:

Sounds even more like the headlight module now. Does the indicator light come on with the headlight disconnected? If it does it confirms that the switches are not the problem, if it doesn't a continuity test will prove it. The problem is that the wiring diagram in the manual doesn't show how the logic board is wired up nor what output the ECU is supplying to it through the blue and black wire. In cases like this the fastest and easiest way is to swap the headlight with a known working unit. 

Yes the high beam indicator comes up just fine. Indeed the service manual gives idea where the cables go and what are the colours but no input values for the L/B cable, which is unfortunate.

 

I tried to convince dealer to install my light onto one of his T7 but they were all sold so he didn't want to do it so I didn't even try to suggest we can take one of the new lights and put it on my T7. That would indeed be the easiest to do.

[FAR&FURTHER]

I'd be sooo interested what is wrong with the unit. Let's see how this develops and ends up actually, it will be long run due to COVID-19.

 

Almost tempted to look for some electronics engineer to give him/her the old light and let them take it apart and say what is wrong.

[FAR&FURTHER]

23 hours ago, Whitey66 said:

It is also important not to tell them that you have attempted to fix it yourself besides checking and replacing fuses and bulbs etc. that are listed in the owners manual, as they can void your warranty for that too. The safest way to add accessories is through a circuit directly to the battery with the correct size wires and circuit protection fuses fitted for that particular accessory. If you're not sure, ask an expert.

I don't understand the logic of what is safer plugging the accessories directly to the battery. Heard that argument many times and I'm not sure if it's not a myth, especially in case of T7.

 

Looking at the wiring diagram in the manual...

• the accessory connectors (grips & foglights) is separate circuit, connects to the system only before the fuse where power comes from main switch
• the aux connectors (12v socket 2x) is again separate circuit, connects to the system only before the fuse where power comes from the main switch

So... this is exactly the same (apart from main switch) as plugging the heated grips to the battery. The resulting circuit is exactly the same minus the main switch.

 

And really plugging stuff directly to battery, like 12v sockets or grips or lights is just asking for dead battery, it should be plugged into the switched 12v, IMHO.

 

I'm unaware how any of the above could influence the bike (especially as they're all separately fused - cosidering anyting you plug to battery has its fuse) apart from the total load on the main fuse and alternator.

 

But my knowledge is limited.

[Noel McCutcheon]

Another headlight should be covered no problem under warranty, but they Yamaha may want the old unit back. Be interesting as there is electronics in there that triggers the lights on when the engine starts. The no aux light though seems to suggest a total fail.

[ScorpionT16]

Thanks for all the info, maybe in the meantime get some AUX lights to use, can even be a back-up?

 

These are really good, Cyclops Aurora, 4000 lumens total, 19 watt each, LED, have a DRL option with halo

 

[FAR&FURTHER]

Hi everyone,

@ScorpionT16 Yes I'm using ADVMonster aux lights as backup lights now.

 

I've summarized current situation in a new video. Lets see if someone had some problems with the headlight as well.

 

 

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[Noel McCutcheon]

You are the first and only with this issue, i think.

 

So As suspected then new unit needed. Parts like that should get sent.

 

Looks like no others here reporting dead headlight(s). 

 

PS Some people fit an Anti-bobble strut bar to stop the headlight unit shaking, just a thought.

 

 

[FAR&FURTHER]

Hi @X Plane, I've my own solution for vibrations of the cockpit.

 

I was about to make something like you posted but when I talked to mechanics in Yamaha they were not keen on it. They were saying things along the lines, that it's mounted on the rubber to dampen the vibrations going into to the assembly and were under the impression that the metal bar (which I wanted to make) would be too rigid. (not sure that it's any credible concern...)

 

My solution now is... stuffed teddy bear between the windshield and headlight/speedo as seen for example here:

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by FAR&FURTHER

[Noel McCutcheon]

3 minutes ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

Hi @X Plane, I've my own solution for vibrations of the cockpit.

 

I was about to make something like you posted but when I talked to mechanics in Yamaha they were not keen on it. They were saying things along the lines, that it's mounted on the rubber to dampen the vibrations going into to the assembly and were under the impression that the metal bar (which I wanted to make) would be too rigid. (not sure that it's any credible concern...)

 

My solution now is... stuffed teddy bear between the windshield and headlight/speedo as seen for example here:

 

 

 

Hi @FAR&FURTHER yes i put the anti-bobble in case you had one fitted, as i too think they may transmit vibes into the headlight which may be problematic. Teddy-Bear looks friendlier. Think you just been unlucky with your headlight. I think your old one will go back to yamaha to be investigated, this happen with my MT-10 Throttle Bodies at 10000 miles that brought up engine warning light, they replace and take old unit back. Good luck.