talk to me about tubes in a tubeless tire on the Tenere 700

[Cruizin]

Ive never owned an adventure bike. I have owned street bikes and many dirt bikes. Iv'e never run tubeless tires on an off road bike before. 

 

A lot of the adv tires that I'm looking at are Tubeless 150/70/18 rear, 90/90-21 front. I've heard that you can run tubes in a tubeless tire. Is anyone else doing this currently? 

 

Im considering the pros/cons of tubes in a tubeless. I would like to be able to air the tires down offroad a lil bit. I would assume that i would be carrying a tubeless repair kit as well as a Tube patch kit. 

 

Any advice to share? 

[Louis]

The standard Pirelli tyres are tubeless tyres. Repair a puncture same as tube tyre, patch the tube. 

[Louis]

I should have mentioned it's a  tube in a tubeless tyre. Dirt riding is a great skills set for  adventure riding. But adventure bikes aren't a dirt bike but a hybrid some have more  road performance, some are more dirt oriented. 

The same thing is applied to tyres, so the type of adventure trip is related to the bike and tyre setup. Remember you are probably not trailering your bike for the trip, so if you have a long way to go to get off the tarmac, a Dunlop 606 would probably be mostly worn out when you see the dirt. So any advantage you think you are probably going to expect  is diminished. You will need a  new tyre for the trip home, that's for sure.

So a comprise is probably in order! A long lasting tyre for the whole trip with less offroad performance perhaps? Or travel on the tarmac with a road oriented tyre and then switch to  a 606??? Okay you could trailer it and carry tyres. But that is a weekend dirt ride not an adventure ride, isn't it? A good adventure tyre is what YOU are willing to comprise! Not someone else.

Take some shorter adventure rides loaded with your gear to give yourself some more insight. Perhaps start with the stock tyres first, so that you have a  baseline, for your riding style and experience.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Louis

[FAR&FURTHER]

4 hours ago, Cruizin said:

Ive never owned an adventure bike. I have owned street bikes and many dirt bikes. Iv'e never run tubeless tires on an off road bike before. 

 

A lot of the adv tires that I'm looking at are Tubeless 150/70/18 rear, 90/90-21 front. I've heard that you can run tubes in a tubeless tire. Is anyone else doing this currently? 

 

Im considering the pros/cons of tubes in a tubeless. I would like to be able to air the tires down offroad a lil bit. I would assume that i would be carrying a tubeless repair kit as well as a Tube patch kit. 

 

Any advice to share? 

I've been doing some research on this when I prepared OutEx video... I'm not expert though.

 

From the factory T7 comes with tube rims and tubeless tires with tubes in them. I run for example TKC80 & Mitas E-07 combo and those could be used with tubes or without.

 

Tube tires (TT) are softer and have slightly different circumference as they do not need to sit that tight on the rim to keep air in. This means you can't use TT tyre on tubeless rim/conversion and it also means that you may need the rim lock with TT tire as it's not that tight on the rim and can move and rip the valve out.

 

Some manufacturers would have different texture/surface inside the tire for TT and TL tire, but most TL tires are tubes compatible.

 

I'm running tubeless conversion and my road tire pressure is ~32/36 psi and for off-road (any even sand) I'm running ~20/20psi (due to my conversion I can't go lower).

 

I found that I don't really need to go lower anyway for my off-road and also... Mitas E-07+ Dakar I have or Heidenau K60 are so stiff tires you can run them with 0 psi! The ADV tires are not MX ones you won't achieve the flex like with MX one.

 

Pavel

---

https://farandfurther.org

https://instagram.com/farandfurther

https://facebook.com/farandfurther

 

[Limey]

11 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

I've been doing some research on this when I prepared OutEx video... I'm not expert though.

 

From the factory T7 comes with tube rims and tubeless tires with tubes in them. I run for example TKC80 & Mitas E-07 combo and those could be used with tubes or without.

 

Tube tires (TT) are softer and have slightly different circumference as they do not need to sit that tight on the rim to keep air in. This means you can't use TT tyre on tubeless rim/conversion and it also means that you may need the rim lock with TT tire as it's not that tight on the rim and can move and rip the valve out.

 

Some manufacturers would have different texture/surface inside the tire for TT and TL tire, but most TL tires are tubes compatible.

 

I'm running tubeless conversion and my road tire pressure is ~32/36 psi and for off-road (any even sand) I'm running ~20/20psi (due to my conversion I can't go lower).

 

I found that I don't really need to go lower anyway for my off-road and also... Mitas E-07+ Dakar I have or Heidenau K60 are so stiff tires you can run them with 0 psi! The ADV tires are not MX ones you won't achieve the flex like with MX one.

 

Pavel

---

https://farandfurther.org

https://instagram.com/farandfurther

https://facebook.com/farandfurther

what tubeless kit are you using and for how many kilometres? Thanks Paul. 

 

 

[FAR&FURTHER]

@Limey Hi, I'm using OutEx tubeless kit. I've now done on it about 6000km through Europe and Morocco off-and-on road. I've used the same kit on my Honda CB500x when I went from UK to India and back and that was 54 000km.

 

More information about the kit in the video:

 

[Louis]

13 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

I've been doing some research on this when I prepared OutEx video... I'm not expert though.

 

From the factory T7 comes with tube rims and tubeless tires with tubes in them. I run for example TKC80 & Mitas E-07 combo and those could be used with tubes or without.

 

Tube tires (TT) are softer and have slightly different circumference as they do not need to sit that tight on the rim to keep air in. This means you can't use TT tyre on tubeless rim/conversion and it also means that you may need the rim lock with TT tire as it's not that tight on the rim and can move and rip the valve out.

 

Some manufacturers would have different texture/surface inside the tire for TT and TL tire, but most TL tires are tubes compatible.

 

I'm running tubeless conversion and my road tire pressure is ~32/36 psi and for off-road (any even sand) I'm running ~20/20psi (due to my conversion I can't go lower).

 

I found that I don't really need to go lower anyway for my off-road and also... Mitas E-07+ Dakar I have or Heidenau K60 are so stiff tires you can run them with 0 psi! The ADV tires are not MX ones you won't achieve the flex like with MX one.

 

Pavel

---

https://farandfurther.org

https://instagram.com/farandfurther

https://facebook.com/farandfurther

 

 

13 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

I've been doing some research on this when I prepared OutEx video... I'm not expert though.

 

From the factory T7 comes with tube rims and tubeless tires with tubes in them. I run for example TKC80 & Mitas E-07 combo and those could be used with tubes or without.

 

Tube tires (TT) are softer and have slightly different circumference as they do not need to sit that tight on the rim to keep air in. This means you can't use TT tyre on tubeless rim/conversion and it also means that you may need the rim lock with TT tire as it's not that tight on the rim and can move and rip the valve out.

 

Some manufacturers would have different texture/surface inside the tire for TT and TL tire, but most TL tires are tubes compatible.

 

I'm running tubeless conversion and my road tire pressure is ~32/36 psi and for off-road (any even sand) I'm running ~20/20psi (due to my conversion I can't go lower).

 

I found that I don't really need to go lower anyway for my off-road and also... Mitas E-07+ Dakar I have or Heidenau K60 are so stiff tires you can run them with 0 psi! The ADV tires are not MX ones you won't achieve the flex like with MX one.

 

Pavel

---

https://farandfurther.org

https://instagram.com/farandfurther

https://facebook.com/farandfurther

 

Could you please share how many km's you have traveled on your tyre combo and perhaps pictures. As you are mid adventure bogged down due to the virus, will show Cruizin and others why adventure riders chose such a  combinations. As longevity is a comprise for adventure tyre selection. 

A more aggressive tyre such as your TKC 80 or a Shinko 804 for the front is commonly used. For the rear K60 or E-07 is also a "go to" adventure  tyre. I've personally not used the Dakar E07 just the standard E07 what are your thoughts on the tyre? 

[Cruizin]

I ran d606 tires on a few dual sport bikes. Almost as good as a full knobby off road, I usually got 2000 miles or more before having to change rear tire.

 

So, tell me if I got this right.  The T7 has wheels made for tubes, but you can run tubeless tires with tubes in them, right? Does any 18" and 21" heavy duty tubes work? 

 

Or, I can get a  kit to make these tube wheels tubeless, and install tires with no tubes? 

 

Or, I can get a new set of wheels and run tubeless.

 

With the current stock wheels., we have to run tires that are 90/90-21 & 150/70-18 , right? 

 

I will probably end up with two sets of wheels. One tubeless for mostly street, and one Tubed, for mostly offroad. 

 

[ScorpionT16]

Just get the OutEx kit and go fully tubeless, simple solution. I bought the kit and am waiting for the bike to arrive now. 

 

There is no rule to run a tube off road, and also like @FAR&FURTHERmentioned, 20psi is as low as I would go on the T7, even with a tube. Carry a spare tube incase you need it, otherwise enjoy all the benefits of tubeless on and off road. Get a new set of wheels when and if the current ones are dented, corroded, or in need of replacement and use the spare money for new tires. Also watch his video, he explains everything well. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by ScorpionT16

[Louis]

2 hours ago, Cruizin said:

I ran d606 tires on a few dual sport bikes. Almost as good as a full knobby off road, I usually got 2000 miles or more before having to change rear tire.

 

So, tell me if I got this right.  The T7 has wheels made for tubes, but you can run tubeless tires with tubes in them, right? Does any 18" and 21" heavy duty tubes work? 

 

Or, I can get a  kit to make these tube wheels tubeless, and install tires with no tubes? 

 

Or, I can get a new set of wheels and run tubeless.

 

With the current stock wheels., we have to run tires that are 90/90-21 & 150/70-18 , right? 

 

I will probably end up with two sets of wheels. One tubeless for mostly street, and one Tubed, for mostly offroad. 

 

A guy I know did an adventure ride  from Adelaide South Australia to the tip of cape York in Queensland. 3600km or 2200miles one  way that's mostly in a straight line on a DR 650. He said that he made  2 mistakes

1. Too much gear

2. His Dunlop 606 rear didn't make half of the trip. Was worn out  before a good off road tyres were really needed.

I was  wondering if 2000 miles for the  rear, did it include highway miles/loaded up with camping gear? 

2 sets of wheels with different biased tyres, great if you have the money, you can select which is better suited for your trip. There's different types of adventures after all! When the  going gets tough we all crave for a 250 with aggressive tyres, just not a good setup for plenty of highway miles. 

 

[FAR&FURTHER]

@Cruizin
 

Quote

 

The T7 has wheels made for tubes, but you can run tubeless tires with tubes in them, right?

Does any 18" and 21" heavy duty tubes work? 

 

YES, correct that's how Yamaha wants you to do it.

 

Quote

Or, I can get a  kit to make these tube wheels tubeless, and install tires with no tubes? 

YES, OutEx way or BartTubless or AirTight system:

https://www.bartfactory.com/products/bartubeless-en/yat700-yamaha-tenere-700-en/?lang=en

https://www.smpro.co.uk/services/airtight-system.html

 

Quote

Or, I can get a new set of wheels and run tubeless.

NO, You can't get true tubeless wheels. There are only 3 options mentioned above all will take some rim (WT or MT rims) and will seal it somehow so you can run tubeless. Most of the options change front rim MT for tubeless ready WT rim. Watch my video for more details on the RIMS.

 

Quote

With the current stock wheels., we have to run tires that are 90/90-21 & 150/70-18 , right?

YES, at least in Europe to be legal

[FAR&FURTHER]

In terms of tires, gentleman. I'm the worst person to ask about advice. If it has rubber, its good tire for me.

The thing is, choice of tires outside out home countries is limited or very expensive (140% tax in India for example) and in general I just bought what was available.

 

On long distance travel (tens of thousands km) I don't tend to do crazy off-road and most of the terrain I came across is dry gravel, track, forest, sand, water crossing and occasionally some mud and loads of tarmac.

 

For this I run on my Honda CB500X when going to India Mitas E-07 both front/rear. The choice was not because they're great tire but be because they last, they're Czech and cheap. I've done about 24 000km on rear that time running it to the fabric in the end. Noone cares about thread depth in India it was ridden way past its limit in Himalayas.

 

Of course it would be nice to have knoblies when doing off-road and road tire when doing 2000km long haul but life is tough. Hard 50/50 tire will last and do road good and everything else good enough apart from mud where it becomes slick road tire

 

Another good think is Mitas E-07+ Dakar, Scout K60 or Shinko 805 can be ridden empty, thats how hard they are, and that may come handy some time.

 

The current combo of TKC80 & Mitas E-07+ Dakar is definitely improvement in terms of handling off-road. Front is more stable than with Mitas E-07, but I feel the TKC80 is even more slippy on wet tarmac than the E-07 was.

Edited May 11, 2020 by FAR&FURTHER
T7 config added

[Cruizin]

I've been hearing really good things about the Dunlop trailmax mission tires . Talked to a guy yesterday who got 8600 miles out of his rear tire. Said front probably had another 2000 left in it. Good in gravel, too. 

[PNWTEN]

I talked with Jill at Woodys Wheel Works in Denver last week. She said that they would do a tubeless rear wheel but do not recommend a tubeless front.  I’ll most likely follow their recommendation.  

[Yammybound88]

14 hours ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

@Limey Hi, I'm using OutEx tubeless kit. I've now done on it about 6000km through Europe and Morocco off-and-on road. I've used the same kit on my Honda CB500x when I went from UK to India and back and that was 54 000km.

 

More information about the kit in the video:

 

I ordered the kit yesterday.  This is all new to me. 

 

Cheers 

-Bob

[FAR&FURTHER]

@Limey Just please make sure you understand the limitation when running kit on the MT (OEM T7 RIM) explained in the video. If you're not comfortable with the risk, you'd need to invest in WT rim. I had some people commenting on the video and they tried really hard to pop the tire off bead and it needs really hard core off-road.

[ScorpionT16]

When I got the OutEx kit, even they state the risk however mention it is a very very low risk, I feel the risk of a tube popping in the front can be a lot worse than an off road, low psi (if you are running it that low, its on soft ground and not dakar level speeds with this bike, it will be a softer blow)

 

By all means if people have the $$$ for a new wheel, why not. 

[FAR&FURTHER]

@ScorpionT16 Exactly.

[Limey]

23 minutes ago, FAR&FURTHER said:

@Limey Just please make sure you understand the limitation when running kit on the MT (OEM T7 RIM) explained in the video. If you're not comfortable with the risk, you'd need to invest in WT rim. I had some people commenting on the video and they tried really hard to pop the tire off bead and it needs really hard core off-road.

Thanks for all this great information.  I don’t air down anymore after bending a rim on my Super Ténéré. Will this tubeless system be ok for Hwy use?

[FAR&FURTHER]

@Limey Yes it is good for highway use, I had no problems with it.