Adventure Spec Crash Bars Bent

[Tooph]

Not really a review as much as my somewhat negative experience so far. The bottom left mounting plate bent inward a bit when tipped over at a stand still. I did have givi crash bags mounted to them... So maybe that didn't help. Glad i decided to wrap the frame tubes in radiator hosing before hand. It may have stopped them from bending more as it's making contact now. If I had put two layers in that one section it may not have been able to bend in the first place. Either way, was not expecting them to be so fragile. This is the weak point! Seems like a bad design for that mounting point. 

 

Hard to tell by the picture so I marked it. The entire left side is obviously much closer now though. 

 

Reinforce/dampen that section! 

 

@Patrick ADVspec

Edited January 17, 2021 by Tooph
I suck at forming sentences?

[Vtamb81]

Mine did the same thing last weekend. Same side, same mounting spot. I like your rad hose idea, my mount bent all the way into the frame. 
 

Stalled my bike when starting on a rocky climb. Pretty hard drop from a stand still onto the downhill side of the rocky trail. Also the bar did do a great job of eating a square hit directly from a giant rock. 
 

After I rebend it I’m going to do your rad hose mod. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Vtamb81

[Tooph]

That sucks! Hopefully the hose idea helps and bending it back doesn't weaken it to much. I put it on to protect the frame tube from a tip over big rock hit. Don't even notice its there with black zip ties ;).   Reading through the adventire apec website for warranty and crash bar info. Stumbled accross how they contradict themselves. Say one thing on the crash bar page and then another on the warranty portion........... Missleading much? 

 

Crash bar page = "The bars are designed for your T700 to lean on as the bike naturally falls into its resting position on the ground after a spill, hopefully taking the impact/weight off your tank and/or acting as sacrificial grinding plates in the event of a long slide"

 

warranty page = "All crash bars, bash plates and other products manufactured  by Guard it Technology and sold by Adventure-Spec LLC are designed ONLY for cosmetic purposes. "

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Tooph

[Insane rider]

Looks like it could be easy to brace the plate with the tube by adding a gusset between the plate and the tube

 

I waiting for mine to be delivered and will look into it when I will have them in hand.

To me, they are still a great option if you don’t want to add to much weight 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Insane rider

[Tooph]

1 minute ago, Insane rider said:

Looks like it could be easy to brace the place with the tube bu adding a gusset between the plate and the tube

 

I waiting for mine to be delivered and will look into it when I will have them in hand.

To me, they are still a great option if you don’t want to had to much weight 

100% agree when considering weight versus the other options. Wasn't expecting them to be as tough as the steel variants and that was a compromise i was willing to take. Just wasn't expecting them to bend as easily as they did. Weight was my driving factor when I bought everything. Let us know if you come up with a better solution. 

[Devo]

Mine bent badly as well from a moderate drop.  The left side ended up flush with plastic, but could be pulled out to give a small gap.  But the biggest problem is with the lower front bar, which ended up about 2 mm from the header pipes.  I’ve taken them off and gone with Givi.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Devo
Typo

[Tooph]

That is not good. I ride pretty hard and its only a matter of time. Makes me want to switch ahead of time. Alot of money (for me) invested in the Adventure Spec Bars......

[CoreCass]

was thinking of changing from heed. but not gona happen now.

[TMO T7]

I too was pondering the AS crash bars but am a bit concerned by the recent posts with bent tabs & bars. Maybe those weak points help prevent the bars from bending the frame structure. Or is the mounting points strong enough that a more burely crash bar would be the better way to go at the expense of a bit more weight. I'm now considering the Touratech uppers and lowers but kind of pricey.

[TomTom]

warranty page = "All crash bars, bash plates and other products manufactured  by Guard it Technology and sold by Adventure-Spec LLC are designed ONLY for cosmetic purposes. "

 

Serious??? WTF....

[Louis]

19 minutes ago, TomTom said:

warranty page = "All crash bars, bash plates and other products manufactured  by Guard it Technology and sold by Adventure-Spec LLC are designed ONLY for cosmetic purposes. "

 

Serious??? WTF....

I had to check out the website for myself, I thought WTF myself at first! I guess it is one of those disclaimers, Like; an electric kettle " Not for stove top use" or Caution contents may be hot . Or "MOTORCYCLE NOT INCLUDED" YES a Camel Adv quote. 

I personally tested the crash bars, with no signs of deformation. I'm sure I have read on this forum others had survived unscathed or merely scratched after a lay down of some description. I guess that this is not always the case, not sure how any other brands fare.

If I was a manufacturer of crash bars I would want some sort of well worded disclaimer. In this litigation crazy world, I wouldn't want to be sued because I served up a hot coffee that burnt a consumer . One can't foresee all that the general public could dish up via correct or misuse of a product. 

A disclaimer thread sounds like an amusing thread for this  forum. 

[Tooph]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:23 PM, TMO T7 said:

I too was pondering the AS crash bars but am a bit concerned by the recent posts with bent tabs & bars. Maybe those weak points help prevent the bars from bending the frame structure. Or is the mounting points strong enough that a more burely crash bar would be the better way to go at the expense of a bit more weight. I'm now considering the Touratech uppers and lowers but kind of pricey.

It's not about the strength of the aluminum. Its about the poor design. The right side is much stronger than the left because the mounting bracket isn't as long and therefore doesn't have as much leverage to bend. As long as the steel bars are well thought out and mounted to the frame(not engine) your much better off going that route imo. I do like their rear rack and pannier setup. Bars are trash... Actually bent them straight today and was super suprised how easy it was... Even though I shouldn't be

Edited January 24, 2021 by Tooph

[Uncle M]

Quick question about crash bar mounting points. I haven't chosen any brand yet so interested in this and other threads about crash bars. Why would mounting to the frame be preferred over one of the engine mounting bolts when the frame members that go under the engine are just bolted onto the main frame anyway? Sportbike frame sliders often utilize the engine mounting bolts and one of the T7's is an M12 bolt, which would seem to be a pretty solid mounting point for crash bars?

[Tooph]

I was refering to the oem crash bars. They actually attach to the motor without any frame support at one point... Idk who thought that would ever be a good idea. Saw a few examples of broken cases when landing on the bars. That was also a bad design. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Tooph

[Tooph]

Response from adventure spec. I know that if I read this thread and had all the info before spending my hard earned money on these bars. I would've went a different direction. Hope it helps someone out there. 

 

 

1.  
2.  Tickets
3.  #3,696

TENERE 700 CRASH BARS POOR DESIGN (#3,696)

Status: In Progress

Reported on24/01/2021

Reported by

 

Anthony Wilkerson

tony.wilkerson@hotmail.com

 

Assigned to

 

Dave Lomax

dave@adventure-spec.com

 

Description

https://www.tenere700.net/topic/2626-adventure-spec-crash-bars-bent/
My username is Tooph on the forum and i started this topic. The bottom left mounting tab is way too long. It bends super easy. The aluminum itself seems strong but the design on that side is very poor.

Close this ticket

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MESSAGE AND COMMUNICATION HISTORY

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ADVENTURE SPEC LTD, DAVE LOMAX

Published on January 26th 2021, 6:10:26 am

Thanks for your feedback.

The issue here is that we are engineers, not magicians. We cannot make force/energy disappear, but we can try to dissipate it. We have been making hardparts for a long time now and experience tells us that there are tough decisions to be made when designing crashbars in particular. 

Point 1 : Ideally manufacturers would design in specially frame mounted tabs for us to attach bars to and ensure that those mount points were sacrificial and designed to fail just before the frame did, like a fuse in an electric circuit.

But, they don't and so we have to attach our hardparts to unprotected critical bike parts. This means you don't know when your frame (or engine casing) contact points will fail under an impact load, and the worst thing in the world is if the bars on your bike directly concentrate and transfer too much energy from a drop into a point load where the bars connect to your frame and write off your bike. We've over designed our parts in the past and seen this. It's not good. 

We need to ensure an ability for our parts to allow energy absorption and dissipation to protect your bike and sometimes this means a part designed to 'move' before the frame bends or a bolt sheers (we also use this technique for our rear racks to ensure that the rack breaks before the subframe does if you overload the rack). 

We could easily make our bars 3 times as strong for the same price, but I'm not sure anyone would want that...the tricky bit is ensuring enough ability to dissipate, without being too soft/ vs. making them so tough that the frame or casings fail before the bars/mounts do.  

We have learned the hard way to err on the side of softer bars rather than broken bikes.

Point 2 : Also, when crashbars were first introduced to bikes I think riders understood that they were a sacrificial item to protect your bike form damage, and that yes they should be able to withstand a decent bang, but that ultimately if after a decent drop you lifted up your bike and the 300.00 plastics were in one piece you were onto a winner. If you could bend the bars back into shape afterwards, all the better.

These days there is an increasing expectation for bars to be fitted and just stay in place regardless of how much force you apply. If you do a bit of physics and take the 200kg bike plus a 100kg rider, plus 30kg of luggage  (a total of 726 lbs) and you accelerate that to just 30mph and work out the forces involved in bringing that bike to an instant stop against a rock you soon realise the loads on the few crashbar mount points are scarily substantial. If someone asked you if it would be OK to apply those loads directly to a main frame mount point on your bike with a hydraulic jack I think you'd rightly tell them to find something better to do with their time. 

Overall, we think we have achieved a good balance of weight and the ability to absorb impact loads on mount points to ensure your bike stays safe. If you don't agree and decide that you'd rather look elsewhere for a crashbar product to protect your bike, let me know and we'll see what we can sort out.

Ride safe and stay safe.

Dave

 

My response

ANTHONY WILKERSON

Published on January 26th 2021, 8:47:27 am

Thanks for the response, i enjoy watching your youtube videos

I understand the logic behind what your saying and the reason behind design choices when It comes to transfering force. I don't understand why the left side is designed to bend alot easier than the right. They mount to the same mirror location on the bike. I'm pointing this design flaw out in hopes that you guys consider resigning that side to handle a tip over at zero mph without bending. The right side mounting point isn't as long and doesn't have nearly as much leverage to bend the mounting tab when the bars are pressed against. If you can easily make it as strong as the right side for the same cost then why wouldn't you? Maybe add a support gusset that straddles the tube portion of the frame where the bars are welded to the tab? I'm an journeyman mechanic on the industrial side and work with engineers (also part of my background) every day. On the same level ground, my overloaded tenere 700 fell onto the right side. I dust off and start to pick up the bike forgetting to put the kickstand up.......... While picking the bike up fueled with adrenaline. I lost control and it started to tip over on the other side (looking like a total noob). The result was a bent in left side crash bar and a totally straight right side.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Tooph

[MikeCMP]

Based on your description of what happened how do you know you didn't bend the right side bars, then bend it back when you dropped it on the left side

 

crash bars on the super tenere I had bent too, I never thought about it too much. I dropped it a lot, and the bars protected the bike, which is what they were supposed to do. i ground through the plastic plugs and 1/16 inch of steel on the bars sliding down the road. I didn't get too bent out of shape. 

 

For as light as those vbars are, I think they did as much as they could do. If you think you are going to drop it more often, you probably need something like the outback bars, those looks super strong and have multiple reinforcement points. 

 

Not picking on you and understand your point of view, but looking at those bars I don't see how they wouldn't bend in a significant drop of a heavy bike. 

 

 

Mike

[Tooph]

No worries Mike,

 

I have dropped it on the right side since and quite a bit harder than the left side. Here's a picture of side to side difference of the mounting points. Once you compare, it's pretty obvious why the left side is much weaker than the right.  No doubt they are light and look good. The left side just bends WAY too easy. I wish this info was available before I spent the money on these. All the reports i was getting at the time I was researching these bars pointed to a strong, light and great looking cash bar.

 

Even though I was able to bend the left side straight again. I decided it was worth $200 to go with the givi bars. They're mounting point design and low profile looks like a winner for me. Only 7.9lbs and the weight is held lower on the bike. 

 

If anyone wanta to buy my AS bars. There's a big discount to be had

Edited January 26, 2021 by Tooph

[AngryNeutron]

I don't have a dog in this hunt because I don't have AS crash bars but...is it just me or did the guy from AS come off like a total a$$hole?

[roy826]

10 minutes ago, AngryNeutron said:

I don't have a dog in this hunt because I don't have AS crash bars but...is it just me or did the guy from AS come off like a total a$$hole?

 

Just a little overly defensive of his product was my take on it with a few "engineering" references thrown in he clearly knows nothing about.

[Tooph]

9 minutes ago, AngryNeutron said:

I don't have a dog in this hunt because I don't have AS crash bars but...is it just me or did the guy from AS come off like a total a$$hole?

"The issue here is that we are engineers, not magicians." 

 

Non engineering mortals wouldn't understand. So he explains... that the left side of our bike where the crash bars are mounted cannot handle the same amount of force that the right side can handle and this was all on purpose? Is that what I'm supposed to take away from this? lol

[AngryNeutron]

1 minute ago, Tooph said:

"The issue here is that we are engineers, not magicians." 

 

Non engineering mortals wouldn't understand. So he explains... that the left side of our bike where the crash bars are mounted cannot handle the same amount of force that the right side can handle and this was all on purpose? Is that what I'm supposed to take away from this? lol

That's the statement that made me raise an eyebrow...

[MikeCMP]

Are the mounts on the bike itself actually at the same level on both sides? I seem to remember someone saying you can't jack up the bike by the tubes/ frame rails b/c one is higher than the other and the bike would tip over. Maybe in order to make the bars be level the one mount has to be longer than the other. 

 

I'd have to go look out and check on mine. I have the Givi bars myself, I am sure they are similar, but consider them just something to help protect the bike. If they get bent up that is ok.

 

But I am now curious about the mounts being even. 

 

Mike

[TimeMachine]

If those tabs are sacrificial, why don't they make them replaceable? By creating small sacrificial plates that mount between the frame and the crash bars would make a crash much less expensive.

 

I like the SRC crash bars, and they have a separate mounting plate.

[MikeCMP]

Oh I feel more nonchalant  about my bars b/c they were a lot cheaper than the adventure spec ones, I do feel bad they bent up on you, since they were certainly a more premium product.

 

At least you are not being yelled at to "Drop your bike less loser!" or "I have never dropped a bike in 175 years of riding off road"   I had a minor drop off road one of the earlier times I rode my S10, and people were super mean on Advrider  

 

Mike

[MikeCMP]

2 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

If those tabs are sacrificial, why don't they make them replaceable? By creating small sacrificial plates that mount between the frame and the crash bars would make a crash much less expensive.

 

I like the SRC crash bars, and they have a separate mounting plate.

 

Nice idea! I didn't know the SRC bars were like that very cool design.

 

Mike