Disabling ABS

[TimeMachine]

I did a test tonight by pulling some fuses and see what happens.

When I pulled the ABS Control unit fuse (6) I got "Err" on the screen and the speedo didn't work, but the bike ran and the ABS remained switched off.

When I pulled the ABS Solenoid fuse (1) the ABS remained switched off, the ABS lights stayed on on the screen, the bike ran, speedo worked and showed no other warning or error on the screen. Importantly the regular warning and error lights were not lit, meaning if a real error occurred you would still know.

 

 

Removing fuse 1 seems like a legitimate safe solution for big days in steep terrain. Another option other than pulling the fuse might be to use a fuse tap or fuse socket connector in fuse 1 to create a switch, something like this. The only issue I see is how to route the wiring outside the little fuse box cover while still remaining sealed. Would be good to know if anyone has done this.

 

https://stingerforum.org/threads/how-to-launch-on-boost.12187/page-8

[MikeCMP]

That’s interesting but I think you would want to be careful as ou loos the water resistance on the fuse box if it’s open for that connection.

 

Mike

[NvNick]

Why ? You can already turn it off.

[Samm]

Tap into that wire further along the wiring harness and splice in some long switch legs running up to your handlebars. Done properly with shrink tube and liquid tape and you won’t have an issue with waterproofing. I haven’t done this yet but might try soon. There’s probably not much distance between that fuse and the ABS ECU but it’s got to be doable. I’ve had a couple close calls forgetting to re-deactivate the ABS after taking a break or spill or whatever...

[Aleksandar13]

This would be beneficial if you could isolate the back from the front and have it turned off on the back only.. But this way I can't see a benefit as the bike already does this for you. 

Aleks 

[Samm]

Just now, Aleksandar13 said:

This would be beneficial if you could isolate the back from the front and have it turned off on the back only.. But this way I can't see a benefit as the bike already does this for you. 

Aleks 

Yes the bike does it for you after you intentionally hit the button. The problem is that after killing the engine the bike automatically enables ABS again. If you’re dumb like me you forget to switch it off after your trail side snack break and end up free-wheeling down a rocky hill towards a recently downed chest height branch with little to no braking ability...

[HugoB]

it would be cool if there was a device like the KTM "dongle", which remembers your last setting... 

[MikeCMP]

Yeah that dongle would be cool.

 

I think you just have to get used to it and remember - I remembered every time i turned on my ST to set traction control to the middle setting regardless. This is a little different though, since it's not every time.

 

just directly hook your rear brake into the caliper and be done with it

 

[HugoB]

7 minutes ago, MikeCMP said:

just directly hook your rear brake into the caliper and be done with it

 

Agree. 

 

No warning lights or possible annoyances with this solution?

[MikeCMP]

I think if your abs ring was still on the rear wheel it would be fine. I'm not sure what you do with the extra orifice coming out of the abs pump and if you can just plug that up or if you need to have some kind of expansion chamber so the pump doesn't die 

[TimeMachine]

7 hours ago, NvNick said:

Why ? You can already turn it off.

Just human I guess. Sometimes I forget where my keys are too, although I do have a set of key hooks in my kitchen so I dont misplace them.

 

But I cant count the number of times I have started the bike and forgotten to turn off the ABS. On a few occasions this has put me on a steepish slope with the ABS still on. Thankfully I have avoided really steep terrain, but will be venturing into the high country (Victoria Australia) at some point and could get seriously hurt, as others have, if I forget.

 

 

[MotoCP]

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

I cant count the number of times I have started the bike and forgotten to turn off the ABS. On a few occasions this has put me on a steepish slope with the ABS still on. Thankfully I have avoided really steep terrain, but will be venturing into the high country (Victoria Australia) at some point and could get seriously hurt, as others have, if I forget.

 

 

During the first few months of ownership, the ABS default reset caught me out on several occasions whilst trail riding in the UK.

 

We often have a lot of gates to open and close which can be situated on steep slopes.

This means turning the engine off so the bike can be left in gear before dismounting to stop it rolling away. The faff involved resetting ‘Off Road’ before setting off every time is a PITA.

I’ve forgotten to do it many times and on one occasion I started riding down a long steep gully that was filled with tennis ball sized rocks. That nearly ended badly as my speed increased due to having no brakes from the ABS intervention.
 

I now just stall the bike and leave the ignition on if I need the engine off for a short period of time. The ABS then stays off when you hit the start button. 

If someone releases an ABS permanent ON/OFF plug and play switch, I will buy one.

Edited January 26, 2021 by MotoCP

[HugoB]

18 hours ago, MotoCP said:

If someone releases an ABS permanent ON/OFF plug and play switch, I will buy one.

 

same. 

[jeff03064]

I would love an on/off switch for the ABS. I've got 20+ years of "off-road riding muscle memory" ingrained in me and turning off the ABS isn't part of the routine (yet). I'm not so much worried about forgetting to turn it off at the beginning of the trail. It's when I drop the bike, on an incline, something broke, something came loose, my buddies and I are joking on the coms and are waiting on me to get my sh*t together. With all those distractions, and an eagerness to get going, THAT'S when I worry about forgetting turn it off. I would love a switch!

[CoreCass]

no switch needed.

 

[Samm]

41 minutes ago, CoreCass said:

no switch needed.

 

Looks like this is a good option until you turn off the key...

[CoreCass]

true. but that is manageable in my book. as i also use it as a commuter bike.

 

[TimeMachine]

Just following on from @Camel ADV comment about disconnecting the rear ABS permanently, I'll explain my thinking again here, hopefully a little better. And happy to be corrected.

 

For ABS systems that use only the ABS rings on each wheel, if one wheel is locking up then the ABS unit would be unable to determine the correct speed for the other wheel. This is the issue that "old tech" ABS has in that it requires at least one wheel turning with the ground to be able to modulate the other wheel.

 

The new tech solution is to add a third measuring device, the accelerometer. Now the ABS unit doesn't need the rear wheel to help modulate the front, and so we have the ability to switch off ABS on the rear and still have the front ABS work effectively. 

 

If what you want to do is lock the rear wheel and not engage the front brake then disabling the rear ABS on the T7 would be very helpful. And when you want to use the front brake as well, you are no worse off (off road) compared to having ABS on the front and rear. So it is a partial win. But some conditions are just too dangerous, requiring control of both front and rear brakes, and disabling the rear ABS alone doesn't appear to solve that. 

 

So does anyone have experience with this to confirm my thinking? Are there any bikes out there with the ability to turn off the rear, but are using just ABS rings without an accelerometer? I imagine its been done for the reasons mentioned. But am I right that the front ABS braking is still compromised when the rear wheel is locking up?

[Camel ADV]

On 2/6/2021 at 6:37 AM, TimeMachine said:

Just following on from @Camel ADV comment about disconnecting the rear ABS permanently, I'll explain my thinking again here, hopefully a little better. And happy to be corrected.

 

For ABS systems that use only the ABS rings on each wheel, if one wheel is locking up then the ABS unit would be unable to determine the correct speed for the other wheel. This is the issue that "old tech" ABS has in that it requires at least one wheel turning with the ground to be able to modulate the other wheel.

 

The new tech solution is to add a third measuring device, the accelerometer. Now the ABS unit doesn't need the rear wheel to help modulate the front, and so we have the ability to switch off ABS on the rear and still have the front ABS work effectively. 

 

If what you want to do is lock the rear wheel and not engage the front brake then disabling the rear ABS on the T7 would be very helpful. And when you want to use the front brake as well, you are no worse off (off road) compared to having ABS on the front and rear. So it is a partial win. But some conditions are just too dangerous, requiring control of both front and rear brakes, and disabling the rear ABS alone doesn't appear to solve that. 

 

So does anyone have experience with this to confirm my thinking? Are there any bikes out there with the ability to turn off the rear, but are using just ABS rings without an accelerometer? I imagine its been done for the reasons mentioned. But am I right that the front ABS braking is still compromised when the rear wheel is locking up?

 

The Africa Twin, KTM 690/790/890/1090/1290, BMWs all have the ability to turn off the rear ABS and leave the front engaged. It surprises me that Yamaha didn't add this feature to the T7.

 

You don't have to mess with the ring or ABS sensor to bypass the rear ABS system. I've got the rear master connected directly to the rear caliper. The ports on the ABS module are now plugged. No fluid being pushed into the ABS module by the master and no fluid coming out. I removed all the stock rear ABS lines to clean things up but I'm sure you could cap them and leave them in place.

Now, when I lock up the rear brake, the ABS system still senses it and commands the module to release/pulse the rear brake to get it rolling again but A is no longer connected to B so nothing happens. The front ABS system works as it would normally because the front and rear circuits are separate.

It works for my purposes but might not for anyone else's!

[MikeCMP]

45 minutes ago, Camel ADV said:

 

The Africa Twin, KTM 690/790/890/1090/1290, BMWs all have the ability to turn off the rear ABS and leave the front engaged. It surprises me that Yamaha didn't add this feature to the T7.

 

You don't have to mess with the ring or ABS sensor to bypass the rear ABS system. I've got the rear master connected directly to the rear caliper. The ports on the ABS module are now plugged. No fluid being pushed into the ABS module by the master and no fluid coming out. I removed all the stock rear ABS lines to clean things up but I'm sure you could cap them and leave them in place.

Now, when I lock up the rear brake, the ABS system still senses it and commands the module to release/pulse the rear brake to get it rolling again but A is no longer connected to B so nothing happens. The front ABS system works as it would normally because the front and rear circuits are separate.

It works for my purposes but might not for anyone else's!

I had wondered if this was what you did and if it worked. You think the abs pump will last as long with it plugged? 
 

Mike

[Yammybound88]

13 hours ago, MikeCMP said:

I had wondered if this was what you did and if it worked. You think the abs pump will last as long with it plugged? 
 

Mike

 

I've got my ear to ground listening to this thread.  Cheers

[Camel ADV]

17 hours ago, MikeCMP said:

I had wondered if this was what you did and if it worked. You think the abs pump will last as long with it plugged? 
 

Mike

We set our first T7 up like that too. It had about 9000km without an issue. That's hardly "long term" testing but it's encouraging.

[MikeCMP]

11 minutes ago, Camel ADV said:

We set our first T7 up like that too. It had about 9000km without an issue. That's hardly "long term" testing but it's encouraging.

Cool. thanks for the info!

 

Mike

[Aleksandar13]

37 minutes ago, Camel ADV said:

We set our first T7 up like that too. It had about 9000km without an issue. That's hardly "long term" testing but it's encouraging.

Would you know what would happen if you would bypass the abs pump completely? Or if I would connect the front caliper straight to the master... Would that work with no warning light? 

Aleks 

[HugoB]

1 minute ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Would you know what would happen if you would bypass the abs pump completely? Or if I would connect the front caliper straight to the master... Would that work with no warning light? 

Aleks 

did this on my old 1150 gs, removed the pump completely and all the abs hoses going to it. they now are just normal brakes going from the reservoirs to the calliper itself. works great. not to mention big weight savings for an older generation abs unit.

did have a warning light though but on that bike I just unplugged the lightbulb from the dash so I don't have a visible warning light. 

 

now it works like an old school "ignorant" bike without any assisted braking (in this case it actually even breaks better after this mod, better modulation and more control)

you can surely do this with this the T7, I will investigate once I get mine. 

 

cheers