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Which drive chain slack with chain guide ?


365moto.eu

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Hi from Italy,

I read about 43/48 mm chain slack (1.69/1.89 inch)...

 

Immagine1.png

 

but I have the OEM chain guide.

 

Immagine3.png

 

And it seems to me that those values are unreachable... which are the new ones?

What do you think?

Edited by 365moto.eu
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After ~100 km ride on my new Ténére from authorized dealer I measured chain slack (according to the instructions in manual) approximately 55mm. Called to dealer with my findings to consult further steps saying manual said it was the maximum tolerance.

I was told by the dealer that the Yamaha manual does not state the measurement in the best way. Optimal solution would be to measure the tolerance while sitting on the bike (with some assistant/assistance 😉 ). He assured me they consulted that with Yamaha directly a few times and this was their common conclusion. Better to have more loose chain than tight. Ténéré 700 has chain guides plus chain rollers which prevent any damage to frame and other components by chain.

I was reassured that the slack I measure was intentional, no need to worry about.
This might be one reason why manual states "Consult Yamaha dealer before adjustments of the chain slack".

Edited by Kubajs
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33 minutes ago, KTM2smoker said:

We don't know for absolute sure

Yes we do, it's in the manual with a picture. It's from the protrusion.
image.png.a687cfcaa78f6a25cbf3849c25777c97.png

 

For the slack you just need to set the slack right without the chain guard and then install the chain guard and measure it again. Then you'll know the difference and you know what it needs to be with it.

Edited by Ray Ride4life
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2 hours ago, 365moto.eu said:

Hi from Italy,

I read about 43/48 mm chain slack (1.69/1.89 inch)...

 

Immagine1.png

 

but I have the OEM chain guide.

 

Immagine3.png

 

And it seems to me that those values are unreachable... which are the new ones?

What do you think?

 

The chain slack is measured at the centre of the chain (between the two sprockets).  I use a metric tape measure to read the measurement.  Pull the chain down as shown in the picture and note the measurement.  Then push the chain up and note the measurement, and then do the math.  I like the chain to be to the loose end of the spectrum.  The chain guide should not interfere with this adjustment.  

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4 minutes ago, Landshark said:

 

The chain slack is measured at the centre of the chain (between the two sprockets).  I use a metric tape measure to read the measurement.  Pull the chain down as shown in the picture and note the measurement.  Then push the chain up and note the measurement, and then do the math.  I like the chain to be to the loose end of the spectrum.  The chain guide should not interfere with this adjustment.  

He’s saying that you can’t move the chain up/down the full length of travel because the chain guide blocks it. 
 

i have the chain guide too. It definitely interferes. 
 

Mine was properly tensioned with the chain guide off....when I put the guide back on I could get maybe half the chain travel. 

Edited by Vtamb81
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Just now, Vtamb81 said:

He’s saying that you can’t move the chain up/down the full length of travel because the chain guide blocks it. 

 

Yes, I get the concern.  It should not cause an improper measurement if measured in the centre.  I'd be surprised if the guide interfered such that you can't perform the measurement.  Just go for it.

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3 minutes ago, Landshark said:

 

Yes, I get the concern.  It should not cause an improper measurement if measured in the centre.  I'd be surprised if the guide interfered such that you can't perform the measurement.  Just go for it.

Sorry, I edited my post with more info. It definitely interferes when measuring at the swingarm point in the service manual. 
 

good point on measuring more towards the center rather than the reference point in the manual

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The oversized chain guard trick.  That just adds another step to the adjustment.  I see your point.  I guess it's not to much trouble to remove it.  I'd better buy some hand cleaner...

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Measure the distance by pushing up towards the swingarm before you install the guide and do it that way from now on or you can measure it with the guide in place after its been adjusted properly and use that measurement. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 12:21 PM, Landshark said:

 

The chain slack is measured at the centre of the chain (between the two sprockets).  I use a metric tape measure to read the measurement.  Pull the chain down as shown in the picture and note the measurement.  Then push the chain up and note the measurement, and then do the math.  I like the chain to be to the loose end of the spectrum.  The chain guide should not interfere with this adjustment.  

 

Is this checked with the swing arm in in the air of just on side stand not loaded ? 

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The way I read it is the chain measurement is on the stand, in neutral, just push the chain down.  This isn't an up and down measurement.

 

That said, what part of the chain guide to I measure from, the larger flat surface area or the protrusion that runs down the middle of the chain ? It's a 4mm difference between those surfaces when new, but the middle part would wear over time, right?   Right now I'm shooting for 47 from the main base which = 43 from the wear surface so either way I'm in spec.  Once there one could easily just measure at the end from the swingarm like on the KTMs.

 

 

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I generally don't worry about the rib and just measure from the flat part.  I keep the chain at the maximum sloppiness.   IMO the chain should be on the loose side as opposed to the tight side.  And I normally adjust the chain during a tire change and it's good until the next one.  

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That is the first time I’ve seen the manual suggest that way of measurement. Just one direction. Had to look twice. 
you’re right with chain tension checks, I don’t do weekly. Usually cos I have a dual scottoiler  (not fitted to this yet), you’ll never stretch a chain again with one. Unless you drag race. 
move not looked if it will be in the way on this bike yet. 

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This thread covered the topic of how to measure chain tension correctly: 


In addition, I also use the OEM chain guide and after various types of checks I have come to the conclusion that it does not affect the way of measuring that is described in the manual.

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Teneré 700 '20

WR250R '10

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Ooooo, I like the go no-go guage in that thread, and the one pic shows the guy measured from the lowest part of the guide.  I think I'll use the idea to check the chain tension from full drop on center stand to full compression (disconnect dog bone or shock and use ratchet strap on rear rack to fully compress. Then when it is set good make it go no go thingy to slide between the top of the chain and the bottom of the swing arm on the side stand. Then life will be easy peasy 😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

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How good are these OEM chains?

I've notched up 1100 kms on my new bike and I checked the slack at 60 mm.

Then, adjusted as per the manual to +- 45 mm

Seems like quite a bit of 'elongation' for the mileage?

 

Feels/looks a bit on the tight side to me which goes against my grain.

 

Had a 900 Tracer til just recently and the manual stated 5 -15mm.

It felt like a solid rod when tightened to that so I use to run it between 20 -25mm

Edited by Toppie

Riding faster than everyone else only guarantees you'll ride alone.....        

 

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According to the Yamaha Owners Manual you are supposed to measure the chain at the mid point.  Measure from the bottom of the swing arm to the top of the chain.  So put your measuring stick against the underside of the swing arm and pull down to get the reading.  Then adjust to the required measurement.

The chain should be sloppy when your done, not tightened right up.  

Edited by Landshark
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Checking chain slack is clearly explained in the owner's manual (on page 7-25 of my Canadian manual).

With the transmission in neutral and bike on the sidestand, both tires touching the ground:

"Push down on the drive chain under the end of the drive chain guard."

"Measure distance A between the drive chain guard and the center of the chain as shown."

 

The diagram in the manual shows Distance A is from the bottom edge of the "rib" to the center of the chain's rivets.

IMG_1840.JPG

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Yes. I've done it exactly as per the book.

I'm used to adjusting chains.

Just doesn't seem 'sloppy' enough to me.

Perhaps cos my xt seems more so at its correct adjustment.😅

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Riding faster than everyone else only guarantees you'll ride alone.....        

 

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22 hours ago, Toppie said:

How good are these OEM chains?

I've notched up 1100 kms on my new bike and I checked the slack at 60 mm.

Then, adjusted as per the manual to +- 45 mm

Seems like quite a bit of 'elongation' for the mileage?

 

Feels/looks a bit on the tight side to me which goes against my grain.

 

Had a 900 Tracer til just recently and the manual stated 5 -15mm.

It felt like a solid rod when tightened to that so I use to run it between 20 -25mm

5-15 would definitely be a misprint somewhere.  even at different measuring points. Probably fine on a hard tail. 
I reckon your dealer probably adjusted it to max slackness from the start (55mm). Probably more. If it stretched, it’s because your dealer adjusted it way too tight from start.  I doubt it’s stretched at all @Toppie, bet you won’t notice much movement now it’s just yourself checking it each time. 👍

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2 minutes ago, Dougie said:

5-15 would definitely be a misprint somewhere.  even at different measuring points. Probably fine on a hard tail. 
I reckon your dealer probably adjusted it to max slackness from the start (55mm). Probably more. If it stretched, it’s because your dealer adjusted it way too tight from start.  I doubt it’s stretched at all @Toppie, bet you won’t notice much movement now it’s just yourself checking it each time. 👍

Saying that, I’m not sure I’ve checked anything in 12 months. 🤔😁

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@Dougie Your story might confirm what I was told by my dealer. They promised mechanics would take me to their garage to show and explain some tricks how to properly measure the chain slack etc. during the first guarantee check so I'll try to share my info then. Kick me in case I forget ;). Pretty busy these days so I hope I'll find some time to ride the rest of the remaining kilometers to the first check relatively soon 🙂.

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1 hour ago, Toppie said:

Again harking back to the Tracer where adjustment is made with the bike on its centre stand to between 5-15mm)

Why, it's a different bike?

The T7 doesn't come with a centre stand standard so you never can have a value that need to be aquired on a centre stand.

 

For who has a chain guard, take the guard off and adjust the chain. Then reinstall the guard and measure again, that's your new value.

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Cheers @Kubajs  Yeah @Toppie, I’m not impressed with Yamahas clarity. Why they can’t suggest measurement like everyone here would expect , like on every other bike we’ve ever owned I don’t know. The fact that a large bunch of experienced bikers are discussing it proves it’s not the norm. I’d forgot I even checked this posting last year.  I suppose with a slack chain for off-road, we have to live with a bit more transmission slop on tarmac. 

still weird with 5-15mm though. Sure it’s not shaft drive?😂

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22 hours ago, Ray Ride4life said:

Why, it's a different bike?

The T7 doesn't come with a centre stand standard so you never can have a value that need to be aquired on a centre stand.

 

 

I'm well aware of that, my point was that I thought that, just from habit I might've mistakenly adjusted the T7 using the Tracers procedure.

It could have been possible that after 6 years of hoisting the Tracer onto its centre stand I might have done the same with the Tenere 700.

 

 

 

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On 2/2/2021 at 4:34 AM, Vtamb81 said:

Sorry, I edited my post with more info. It definitely interferes when measuring at the swingarm point in the service manual. 
 

good point on measuring more towards the center rather than the reference point in the manual

I have the same guide. Unless I am in a hurry I remove the guide, adjust the chain, and then put it back on. Very easy to do. 
 

Being a former aviation tech, I follow the manual to the letter. I literally use a torque wrench on every fastener that the manual gives me a spec for. To me, if the manufacture says to measure from a specific point then that is what I do. There are a lot of very smart and knowledge people above my training that design the bike and there is a reason why they say to do things a specific way. They probably know something that we most don't.

 

I will be ordering a BOA-Racing chain slack adjuster. Makes it so much faster and so easy. I will be adjusting the chains with the guide off. Then I'm going to calibrate the adjuster. The reinstall the guide and check the tool marks again, if they align with then guide on, then I know I can adjust the chain without having to remove the guide using the tool.

 

Just don't forget to occasionally measure the distance between chains links. I do it about every 1,000 miles and as the chain gets old every 500.

 

I got a thin metal rod and made a marking on it showing me the maximum distance between links. That way I don't need to get a ruler out. Once the chain length is at about 75%-80% of it's maximum length than I change the chain.

 

 

 

 

E254368F-3268-4773-8EDC-39682EA4E8B4.jpeg

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