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Re-Springing. Nothing Else


ManBearPig
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I actually feel the T7 suspension performs very well for what I intend to use it for, but it does blow through the stroke rather quickly because I'm fat. 

 

I'd like to get a new set of springs...nothing else. Is anyone else doing this? I've read a bit about getting the rear resprung but it seems folks dont do springs only in the forks. 

 

The very limited suspension spring rate knowledge I have is specific to open chamber WP forks and PDS shock, so it probably doesnt mean much here. Is it as simple as calling Race Tech and telling them my weight? 

 

I'd prefer to hear some real world info on what rates are working for what size guys if possible.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

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I agree, the stock Yamaha stuff works well, most KYB stuff does in my experience. I re-sprung mine a few months back.

 

I weigh 230 no gear-I put a 95Nm RR spring on the back and had some Racetech springs put in the front. Reset all my clickers to standard settings and went from there. Very happy with the bike and for now, see no need to re-valve it.

 

These are the front springs

 

51211714555_89cb27f42e_k.jpg

Edited by Firebolter
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25 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

blow through the stroke rather quickly because I'm fat.

 

 

 

 

I don't even have my bike yet, so I cannot help you. I just had to comment on your honesty. If you ever run for political office I will vote for you!

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18 minutes ago, Firebolter said:

I agree, the stock Yamaha stuff works well, most KYB stuff does in my experience. I re-sprung mine a few months back.

 

I weigh 230 no gear-I put a 95Nm RR spring on the back and had some Racetech springs put in the front. Reset all my clickers to standard settings and went from there. Very happy with the bike and for now, see no need to re-valve it.

 

These are the front springs

 

51211714555_89cb27f42e_k.jpg

 

 

Perfect. Thanks so much. I'm 230ish also so this should work well for me also. What was the reason for not going with a RaceTech shock spring also?

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I went with RaceTech as my local TM dealer is also a Race Tech dealer and he uses them in our KYB's on the TM's and I am very happy with that setup, so went that way on the T7 in the front. I had already gotten the RR rear spring when I was ready to do the change over.

Edited by Firebolter
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I re-sprung my T7 with a 9.0 rear and set of .66 KTech springs for my 220lb weight….much better.

There is a lot of good info here:

adv_og_logo.png

Here is a bit of info for you T7 owners. I will build on it as i do more. Spring rates. I have calculated these. They are very close to what a tuner...

 

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225 lbs without gear.

I will revalve the forks myself at some point and the shock will get revalved as well, but I wanted to ride the bike for a while to know better what it needs before I send the shock out for service.

 

I made a pair of spring spacers for the forks and another for the shock to get my sag correct and rode the bike with the stock stuff until my springs came in.  I was  surprised it wasn't that bad on the street with only these changes.  Plush and comfortable, but still pretty soft.

 

I installed Ktech springs, 6.3N front, 90N rear.  Bike is so much better.  Sag is perfect up front with no spacers and the rear only needs 5 clicks to get it correct.  95N would have worked as well. 

I went with Ktech because the fork springs are just a few mm longer than  the stock length and will drop in with no modifications.  Rear spring is the same diameter so no adapter is required.  Both front and rear springs are just slightly longer than stock and give a little more installed preload which is needed in my case.  I may be wrong but I thought the Racetech stuff was considerably shorter and long spacers need to be made for the forks?  Rear spring may use an adapter also?

 

Bike is good with just springs, but still adjusting the damping to get a better feel out of it.  As mentioned I will re-valve after I get some miles on it an have a better idea what to ask from the suspension shop I am going to use.

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I guess I’m one of the few that is disgusted with the bikes suspension. To the point that if I’d have test drove it prior to purchase, I’d probably have passed. I’m 6’1” and at 235lbs. I’ve owned a 2010 and 2013 GSA 1200’s and a ‘17 African Twin. Prior to that had Harleys, Honda XL’s, etc. This Tenere is the first bike I’ve owned that the first thing I have to do is modify the suspension, to make it barely acceptable.

 

While everyone has their own thoughts on what an adventure bike should be, my thoughts are it should be fairly comfortable on the road, allow the loading of lite luggage and/or passenger, and be able to traverse trails off road at a moderate pace. Unfortunately, out of the crate, this is the first purchase I’ve made that couldn’t achieve that goal. Stutter bumps on the road was very harsh, ridiculously so. Potholes were painful, off-road it felt like a hard tail mini bike.

 

So I dove into this site, and have read every post in the suspension categories. After reading it all, I called RaceTech and ordered a new 90nm spring for the shock. Confused on the proper rating, I spoke with the tech department, and they recommended a 85kg spring. So did the RaceTech web site. But after all the reading on this forum, it seems most people my size were getting the 95kg . So I shot for the middle and got the 90kg. Then RaceTech forgot the shim/adapters rings that allow the spring to be centered on the shock. They did hurry and ship it to me, but was disappointed that it appears I received a generic spring adapted to fit multiple bikes.

 

I built spreadsheets, calculated sag rates, change the spring ( twice, after discover the spring needed the adapters mentioned above) and now it appears a modification is needed to the forks. 
 

Lately I’ve ridden a 2016 Yamaha XT250, a Honda CRF 250  and a new KTM 390 adventure. While I’m sure the suspension settings weren’t correct for me on those bikes, I could ride them without the harsh jarring, stuttering, etc. Frankly I’m very disappointed in the T7.

 

I could see major modifications necessary for some of the riders here. Flat hauling butt across tortuous terrain, jumping, passengers with luggage, etc. I get it. I don’t get that for 260 lbs maximum weight I have to learn suspension 101, spend the last month reading every suspension writing I can find , and spending money purchasing parts to make the bike acceptable.

 

Enough crying. Sorry to drag you through that. I do have a question regarding the fork spring rate increase. Can I just add adjustable preload caps to the forks to get the spring rate up to my weight? According to the RaceTech calculator the stock fork spring is 60kg and the recommended spring is a 68k. Sound close? Thanks for any advice.

 

 

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Stock fork springs are 0.57kg/mm.

0.65---0.68kg/mm will probably work fine.

 

Just make sure the springs you order are the same length as stock or maybe a few mm longer. 

Stoltec moto has fork springs for a very good price.  Look at their thread or go to the website for more info.  

 

Preload caps don't change the spring rate.  They add preload on the springs to help you achieve the proper sag/ride height.

A 0.65kg spring is always a 0.65kg spring.  You can't magically make it a 0.70kg spring by just adding preload.

 

Buy proper rate springs and check the sag.  If you need more preload, just make some shims and install them.   Adjustable caps are pretty expensive.  Personally I would just make some shims for free and save my money for something more.   

 


Stoltec Moto has these drop-in springs made specially for the 20+ Ténéré 700. Manufactured right here in the USA and available in a variety of rates. These springs are stock replacement and do not...

 

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The Tenere is a different bike than any other I've owned.  I'm 5' 8" with a 30" inseam.  I could not adjust the bike to allow one foot to touch the ground comfortably so out with the wallet to correct the problem.  The bike is made for a 6'1" 150 lb. rider who doesn't go off road maybe.  I've come to the conclusion you must set up the suspension for your liking at an extra cost.  Even if you buy used, I can see where unless you are the same weight and height of the previous owner, you'll change the suspension again.  Other than that the bike suits me fine for the most part.  I was able to set the sag and such to my liking without replacing any suspension parts.  And now I'm going to ride the crap out of it. 

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6 hours ago, Bmp4510 said:

I do have a question regarding the fork spring rate increase. Can I just add adjustable preload caps to the forks to get the spring rate up to my weight? According to the RaceTech calculator the stock fork spring is 60kg and the recommended spring is a 68k. Sound close? Thanks for any advice.

 

 

I'm nearly identical to your height/weight. I run the RR 9.0 rear spring and 6.4 fronts. I also have a revalved shock and the RR 35mm big piston fork internals. I run about 10mm of front preload. I may go up one rating on the front springs as they are still a bit weak for big hits/jumps, but overall I'm super happy. Ya, it was about $1850 CAD ($1600 USD), but it made such a difference, I have absolutely no regrets.

I think I have Yamaha disease...

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Thanks for the great advice. I didn’t the zip tie test today, just driving the some lousy asphalt roads with stutter bumps 1-3” tall every foot or so, and 2 miles gravel roads. The zip tie on the shock with the new 90 spring only moved 20% down the stroke. The forks’ zip tie showed the forks had compressed 65-70% of the total stroke! So some springs will be ordered.

 

There doesn’t appear to be any suspension specialist on this island, just two motorcycle shops. After speaking with them, it sounds like I’ll be doing the fork mods myself. I was searching videos on how to 

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So hit the send button. I am searching for video/instructions on the spring replacement, and came across one replacing the springs on a Showa fork. Would it be a similar process for the KYB’s? Thanks for any responses.

 

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On 6/26/2021 at 3:13 AM, Bmp4510 said:

 

There doesn’t appear to be any suspension specialist on this island, just two motorcycle shops. After speaking with them, it sounds like I’ll be doing the fork mods myself. I was searching videos on how to 

Find a guy name Phil Overland. He lives on the big island and is a SUSPENSION monster. He raced pro and knows how to fix'em. When I lived in Kauai, he was who I used to do my Huskies and KTM's. 

Edited by Firebolter
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A spring swap is relatively easy to do on the T7.

 

Put the bike on a stand to support the front end. Loosen the top triple clamp bolts.

Loosen completely the fork top nut (both sides).

You may have to remove the bars from the top clamp as well - don't remember as I took my forks completely out of the clamps.

Lift the front wheel completely and block it up so the damper rods/springs are exposed. 

Hold a wrench on the flats of the damper rod under the fork cap, and loosen the fork cap. 

Unscrew the fork cap completely off the damper rod being careful not to damage the damper rod or the adjust rod inside the damper rod or lose the top spring washer. Leave spring guide in place.

Allow the damper rod to drop down, while you remove the spring.

Check/adjust your oil level to 120-100mm from top of fork leg (with forks fully compressed) with your choice of fork oil weight. I believe stock is 5wt.

Pull damper rod up slowly.

Insert spring while holding damper rod.

Compress spring by hand and using a pin punch inserted into a small hole the spring guide to hold preload on the spring.

Fit top spring washer or pre-load spacer as necessary.

Install fork cap, and tighten.

Remove pin punch.

Release front wheel to full stroke SLOWLY.

Thread fork cap into top of fork and tighten

Tighten top triple clamps.

Re-install bars (if needed).

 

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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Firebolter thanks for the name! I will certainly to to look him up.

 

Canzvt I appreciate the help! If I can’t find the gentleman above, I’ll follow your advice and get to it.

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  • 1 month later...

I need help to calculate the rating for a pair of K-Tech fork springs.

 

My T7 has been lowered by 18mm using the OEM links and the rear shock spring upgraded to 95Nm, based on my riding weight of 98KG plus 10% for the lowering, the front forks were lowered by 9mm as recommended.  I can understand with the way the rear shock linkage works why the rear spring needs the extra 10% but cannot see why the front would need a higher rating.  A spring supplier has recommended 6.9NM which does seem quite high.

 

If anyone has any advice that'd be much appreciated

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Thanks to Brooks Suspension I got my answer and am happy to share if you are in a similar situation to.  The best spring rate is 6.6Nm for my weight and the lowered bike.  Springs fitted and the bike is so much better to handle, less dive when braking and the ride is compliant over poor road surfaces.

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  • 1 month later...

What would I do to get the best I could out of the suspension when just doing springs.

As I have noted on this site, gotta fix the preload! The bike has too much fork spring pre-load.

I do want to note that I disagree that the stock suspension works well. It does not work well. It sucks actually. Had to get that off my chest.

So back on topic.

Reason we do valving is to get control. Control of the speed of the suspension movement. Bottoming resistance is a big one, plushness and so much more. This is quite doable.

It takes a dozens of tweaks, way over a days work and many parts, but we definitely can bring this bike to a much higher level than most can comprehend.

Expect to lighten your wallet by about $2000. for a high end build.  Likely $1200 to $1500 for an average build and less for some of the less experienced tuners.

A set of springs are in the range of $350 or less and if you DIY them it is a hell of a lot of bang for the buck.

 

If I was just doing springs and I had no intention of ever doing valving I would opt for Variable rates both front and rear.

We personally frown on variable rate fork springs as we are looking for a more digressive fork not progressive when we do a build.

But if you are not going to do valving you have to slow that fork down somehow, because the damping sure as heck is not going help a lot.

If you do not bottom the stock forks, just go straight rate simply because, if you do not tax the forks even when hitting a root or something, why buy the insurance. That is my take on better suspension. The better it is the more insurance you have. Yes plush is good but the insurance is a major ingredient. So with a variable rate spring you are indeed adding insurance as the spring will not bottom as readily. Yes the fork will come back to quick when you bottom it and the front end may come off the ground for a bit, but that does not cause a get off more times than not. A bottoming event does.

It may not be as comfortable or controlled, but the bacon can be saved. And you will realize more plushness with correct springs.

But if I was valving the bike, I would take out the variable rate fork spring and go straight rate spring and control the hell out of it.

That said, just springs installed with proper preload and rates, does indeed make a good improvement that is readily noticeable for most.

George

Suspension101

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  • 3 months later...

Has anyone just replaced the rear spring and had good results? I weight between 190 and 200 pounds with no gear and I'm considering the 85nm Rally Raid rear spring. Will I notice much of a difference?

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Yes. I weigh 240 ready to ride, have about 30 pounds accessories on bike. Tried the 85nm, but had to crank up preload to max to get sag right. Changed to 95nm and now only a few clicks to get sag good.

Ride is noticeably better, firmer, but also smoother. Very happy.

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24 minutes ago, KidX said:

Has anyone just replaced the rear spring and had good results? I weight between 190 and 200 pounds with no gear and I'm considering the 85nm Rally Raid rear spring. Will I notice much of a difference?

I weigh 225 without gear and installed a 9.0 rear KTech spring and set of .66 KTech fork springs.  It made the bike so much better for me and less harsh.

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1 hour ago, KidX said:

Has anyone just replaced the rear spring and had good results? I weight between 190 and 200 pounds with no gear and I'm considering the 85nm Rally Raid rear spring. Will I notice much of a difference?

Ditto your weight and I have the 85nm RR spring, zero preload. Front 5mm spacer.  I run all stock clickers at only 2 turns in. Big difference.  Bike stays up in the travel and rides pretty smooth, not perfect, but good enough for me. This is my BDR bike so no major antics. (I have dirtbikes for that).  If there's a waterbar I can jump on a two-track, I'll do it and it handles them fine, even with 50lbs of gear on the back with 10 clicks rear preload.  What really makes the difference is; whipping it around rocks/ruts etc encountered as the suspension stays poised allowing no dramas.  No one seems to state any of these effects, only bottoming/smoothness.  I tend to ride obstacles better where I have to react to them at the last second and my bike is now perfect for that.  TKC80s help with this also.  6,000 miles on it with a 3,000 mile IDBDR trip behind me.  The only thing I'd like to iron out is major washboard.

2021 Yamaha Tenere 700
2019 Husqvarna TE 250i
2018 Husqy/Oberon/JD FE 450
 
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14 minutes ago, BADDANDY said:

Ditto your weight and I have the 85nm RR spring, zero preload. Front 5mm spacer.  I run all stock clickers at only 2 turns in. Big difference.  Bike stays up in the travel and rides pretty smooth, not perfect, but good enough for me. This is my BDR bike so no major antics. (I have dirtbikes for that).  If there's a waterbar I can jump on a two-track, I'll do it and it handles them fine, even with 50lbs of gear on the back with 10 clicks rear preload.  What really makes the difference is; whipping it around rocks/ruts etc encountered as the suspension stays poised allowing no dramas.  No one seems to state any of these effects, only bottoming/smoothness.  I tend to ride obstacles better where I have to react to them at the last second and my bike is now perfect for that.  TKC80s help with this also.  6,000 miles on it with a 3,000 mile IDBDR trip behind me.  The only thing I'd like to iron out is major washboard.

Thanks for the insights. I guess I'll pull the trigger on ordering it. How do you like the TKC80's? I plan to do BDR's but have to day a couple of days on slab to get to them. I'm coming from sportbikes and want to do more dirt but don't want to be squirming all over the place in the twisties.

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The forks are not good stock but the rear is worse. So if you just do the rear you’ll be 1/2 way there.  Big improvement. I imagine doing the forks too will be another leap forward. I did my shock last year- it just had to be done ASAP and I’m 180 lbs. I just did my forks a week ago and am hoping for another similar improvement. 

 

While the valving isn’t “good”, it should be good enough for me if the spring is right. I hope.. 

Edited by DT675

 

 

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