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[eddylindenstein]

I suppose I'll know the answer to this question at the end of the week, but wanted to get some opinions:

 

- I'm 180lbs and have hard panniers and a hard top box and have ordered the 90nm spring from Rally Raid and the Touratech Progressive Springs - both getting put in on Thursday.

 

I am taking a long solo trip of about 2000 miles at the end of the month and wanted to do a fully-loaded 200 mile test ride yesterday with a large portion being interstate with my hard panniers and hard top box on.  My rear spring is all the way to 24 clicks and the sag isn't proper with the stock spring in, by the way.  The bike really didn't do well - I was surprised how unplanted it felt.  Additionally, MPG dropped substantially - I needed to fill at about 150 miles because it started flashing at about 135 - I was shocked at how much of a dramatic drop in MPG occurred.  I also felt like I was getting whipped around a lot more than I'm used to (I have a Super Tenere also, but had an FZ1 before that which weighed less than the T7 and it never felt like it was getting kicked around like the T7 did yesterday).

 

Will the change in shock spring and front forks change the unplanted and perhaps MPG?  The panniers are big, but they don't make much of a difference at all on the Super T.  Ultimately if I can't get the bike sorted out in the next couple of weeks than it won't be worth keeping.  The plan was to take on a lot more dirt, do a BDR, etc - but tarmac is such a necessity where I live in order to get to awesome off-road spots so I really am anxious to get these issues solved.

[MikeCMP]

I had some of those problems when I had the OEM rear spring in - Think about it, the bike even at max preload was not good enough to get the sag right for me and a top box, which changes all kinds of geometry on the bike, like the rake a trail, potentially making it much more unstable. I also though it beat the crap out of me since the shock was sitting lower in its travel, and being a progressive link, it was already past the softer parts of travel and in the harder part, meaning the bumps hurt more.

 

With the proper springs on it handled a lot better for me. On the roads, i sometimes get the buffeting and get blown a bit, that's only on the interstate and around trucks though, on normal surface roads I don't notice. 

 

Mike

[mpatch]

The MPG goes south fast when cruising above 75-80mph. 
Have you ever actually weighed how much extra weight you added?

Most people vastly underestimate how much weight they add and/or carry. 
Just the empty top box and panniers are close to 50lbs I’d guess, add some traveling gear and it’s closer to 100 extra pounds on the rear of the bike. 

[Canzvt]

So having that much weight on the stock rear spring will squat the rear more, putting the shock into a position of firmer damping, resulting in a rougher ride. Rake and trail will INCREASE, if the rear squats more than the front resulting in more relaxed turning and more inherent stability. However, your large paniers could alter that stability depending upon wind direction and speed. The 90 sounds about right for your rear spring and will make a big difference.

 

As for mileage, switch your front sprocket to a 16T from the FZ/MT07. It drops your revs about 550 rpm at 100km/h and makes a difference with fuel economy. It doesn't make much difference when going slow as the T7 has so much torque, unless you are doing tight trials/single track type riding. BTW, if fuel economy is king, don't get an ECU tune. Knocks it back about 8-10%. If rideability/performance is king, get the tune and don't complain about mileage...

 

Little story: Drove highway 40 (in Alberta, Canada) from Grande Cache to Grande Prairie and back last week - 189 kms according to Google maps. No wind, +28C temp both days. Trip north was at 125km/h ave.  Trip south was 100km/h. Trip north I ran out of fuel bars at 175kms. Trip south the fuel bars ran out at 241kms including side trips. That's an extra 66kms just by changing pace. Load was identical. Speed makes a big difference on this bike.

[eddylindenstein]

1 hour ago, Canzvt said:

So having that much weight on the stock rear spring will squat the rear more, putting the shock into a position of firmer damping, resulting in a rougher ride. Rake and trail will INCREASE, if the rear squats more than the front resulting in more relaxed turning and more inherent stability. However, your large paniers could alter that stability depending upon wind direction and speed. The 90 sounds about right for your rear spring and will make a big difference.

 

As for mileage, switch your front sprocket to a 16T from the FZ/MT07. It drops your revs about 550 rpm at 100km/h and makes a difference with fuel economy. It doesn't make much difference when going slow as the T7 has so much torque, unless you are doing tight trials/single track type riding. BTW, if fuel economy is king, don't get an ECU tune. Knocks it back about 8-10%. If rideability/performance is king, get the tune and don't complain about mileage...

 

Little story: Drove highway 40 (in Alberta, Canada) from Grande Cache to Grande Prairie and back last week - 189 kms according to Google maps. No wind, +28C temp both days. Trip north was at 125km/h ave.  Trip south was 100km/h. Trip north I ran out of fuel bars at 175kms. Trip south the fuel bars ran out at 241kms including side trips. That's an extra 66kms just by changing pace. Load was identical. Speed makes a big difference on this bike.

That is a big adjustment.  Lots of freeways in my area are 70mph, which means I'm really going 75-78 and the gas goes away QUICKLY.  My 1200 can run 80mph and have 275 miles on a tank like nothing.  It's pretty wild.

[Canzvt]

Yes, I have a Super Tenere also, and it is not really affected by speed in the range you are talking about. The T7 is very much affected.

[Louis]

5 minutes ago, eddylindenstein said:

That is a big adjustment.  Lots of freeways in my area are 70mph, which means I'm really going 75-78 and the gas goes away QUICKLY.  My 1200 can run 80mph and have 275 miles on a tank like nothing.  It's pretty wild.

Take the 1200! , The T7 is not the most suitable bike for high speed LOADED long distance touring. If you've got  more than 1 knife in the drawer use the right one. 

In my opinion the T7 is more suitable for those with a "backpack mentality". That means knowing how to travel light. Those boxes and brackets that you have attached probably weight about 75% of all my total luggage. They also decrease aerodynamics acting like sails. Boxes are for boxers (BMW)

The T7 is totally under sprung! Suitable for small  Asian girls with no luggage, not for a regular beer drinking male.

You will definitely see an improvement with suspension upgrades,  even more if you can reduce the weight of your luggage. Fuel economy will then improve, even more with a 16T front sprocket. 

[Hibobb]

Well said @Louis! 

 

I must admit, I am as guilty as Eddy with a set of Yamaha Panniers on my bike (but no top box... I do have my limits!). That said, I plan on mostly secondary roads and speeds of 60 mph max. Currently I am riding with empty boxes and averaging 180 miles before the fuel light starts blinking. Yes... i am old and ride like an old guy, but I am as happy as a lark!

 

edit:

 

PS: I have a 16 tooth sprocket on my workbench right now, waiting to be put on.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Hibobb

[mpatch]

1 hour ago, Louis said:

Take the 1200! , The T7 is not the most suitable bike for high speed LOADED long distance touring. If you've got  more than 1 knife in the drawer use the right one. 

In my opinion the T7 is more suitable for those with a "backpack mentality". That means knowing how to travel light. Those boxes and brackets that you have attached probably weight about 75% of all my total luggage. They also decrease aerodynamics acting like sails. Boxes are for boxers (BMW)

The T7 is totally under sprung! Suitable for small  Asian girls with no luggage, not for a regular beer drinking male.

You will definitely see an improvement with suspension upgrades,  even more if you can reduce the weight of your luggage. Fuel economy will then improve, even more with a 16T front sprocket. 

My goal since day one of owning the bike was to keep the weight down. If I wanted to add hard bags and all that jazz I’d ride a GS or similar. 
 

[eddylindenstein]

2 hours ago, Hibobb said:

Well said @Louis! 

 

I must admit, I am as guilty as Eddy with a set of Yamaha Panniers on my bike (but no top box... I do have my limits!). That said, I plan on mostly secondary roads and speeds of 60 mph max. Currently I am riding with empty boxes and averaging 180 miles before the fuel light starts blinking. Yes... i am old and ride like an old guy, but I am as happy as a lark!

 

edit:

 

PS: I have a 16 tooth sprocket on my workbench right now, waiting to be put on.

Yeah, I was hoping this bike would be a unicorn but it’s really just seemingly a heavy ass dual sport.  It’s a shame.  I should have just gotten a 250 - I could do 50-60 on my old KLR 250 all day and it was 200lbs lighter than the T7.

[BMRT7]

You over loaded an already notoriously under sprung bike and weren’t happy with how it handled? Insert surprised pikachu meme. 
 

You posted in the T7 fb group that you have all those bags loaded up and you’re not even bringing camping gear. 
 

Louis’ comment was right - try to bring less Shet. Aside from that it’s not the bike’s fault you’ve picked the wrong tool for the job. 

[Hibobb]

4 minutes ago, eddylindenstein said:

Yeah, I was hoping this bike would be a unicorn but it’s really just seemingly a heavy ass dual sport.  It’s a shame.  I should have just gotten a 250 - I could do 50-60 on my old KLR 250 all day and it was 200lbs lighter than the T7.

"For Me" it is NOT a dual-sport, & I agree, 450 pounds is heavy. I am using it as a mid-range street bike that I am not afraid to pull into a rough camping site on BLM land. My last touring bike was a ST1100 at 720 pound unloaded. I was afraid to drop that over at a campground as I couldn't pick it up by myself.

[eddylindenstein]

1 minute ago, BMRT7 said:

You over loaded an already notoriously under sprung bike and weren’t happy with how it handled? Insert surprised pikachu meme. 
 

You posted in the T7 fb group that you have all those bags loaded up and you’re not even bringing camping gear. 
 

Louis’ comment was right - try to bring less Shet. Aside from that it’s not the bike’s fault you’ve picked the wrong tool for the job. 

I’m sorry you’re confused and not getting the whole story.  I said the suspension is getting a complete overhaul on Thursday.  The panniers were full - I had a work event 80 miles away and packed as I always have on the Super Tenere.  I was surprised that the T7 so drastically underperformed its big brother; the Power:Weight ratio is better on the T7, but the performance probably was about 75% at best.  Hopefully the improved suspension fixes the problem or then yes, it is completely the wrong tool for the job.

[eddylindenstein]

1 minute ago, Hibobb said:

"For Me" it is NOT a dual-sport, & I agree, 450 pounds is heavy. I am using it as a mid-range street bike that I am not afraid to pull into a rough camping site on BLM land. My last touring bike was a ST1100 at 720 pound unloaded. I was afraid to drop that over at a campground as I couldn't pick it up by myself.

Well the Super isn’t quite that big, but yes it’s big.  I’ve actually taken it on some gnarly off-road stuff and it’s performed better than lighter Tiger’s my friends ride.  
 

There’s people putting out documentaries on YouTube riding these things around the USA, fully loaded, going 80+ for hours on end and with no problem.  Maybe 180lbs is just too fat for this bike?

[Hibobb]

1 minute ago, eddylindenstein said:

Well the Super isn’t quite that big, but yes it’s big.  I’ve actually taken it on some gnarly off-road stuff and it’s performed better than lighter Tiger’s my friends ride.  
 

There’s people putting out documentaries on YouTube riding these things around the USA, fully loaded, going 80+ for hours on end and with no problem.  Maybe 180lbs is just too fat for this bike?

Jap motors are pretty bulletproof. Don't let anyone rattle you. It is not designed to be a Tour bike, but it can tour. Just as it is not a real offroad bike but it can go offroad. "In my opinion" it is a fun "do anything" bike and that is why I got it.

[eddylindenstein]

1 minute ago, Hibobb said:

Jap motors are pretty bulletproof. Don't let anyone rattle you. It is not designed to be a Tour bike, but it can tour. Just as it is not a real offroad bike but it can go offroad. "In my opinion" it is a fun "do anything" bike and that is why I got it.

That’s what I like.  The unfortunate part is the 200 miles of pavement before you get to dirt.  I usually am riding 11 months out of the year, 30 degrees is the lowest temp I’ll ride to.  My sales territory is huge and I moto every day I can and was/am hoping I can make the T7 work for all of my uses.  From long road trips to BDR’s to commuting.

[mpatch]

42 minutes ago, eddylindenstein said:

Yeah, I was hoping this bike would be a unicorn but it’s really just seemingly a heavy ass dual sport.  It’s a shame.  I should have just gotten a 250 - I could do 50-60 on my old KLR 250 all day and it was 200lbs lighter than the T7.

Take a 500cc class euro bike for a ride and you’ll see the light when it comes to true lightweight dual sport bikes which the T7 or any multi cylinder bike isn’t. 

My 500 is the one bike I don’t think I’ll ever sell and I go through bikes like underwear. 
There is no unicorn. You need at least 3 bikes to “do it all”. 

[mpatch]

50 minutes ago, eddylindenstein said:

Yeah, I was hoping this bike would be a unicorn but it’s really just seemingly a heavy ass dual sport.  It’s a shame.  I should have just gotten a 250 - I could do 50-60 on my old KLR 250 all day and it was 200lbs lighter than the T7.

 

 

If you have 200 miles before finding off road riding buy a trailer and a off road bike, you’ll be much happier. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by mpatch

[Louis]

It's been well documented on this forum the T7 is under sprung! Updates to suspension will remedy the problems depending on your envisaged riding usage. This should be the guide to how much you spend. 

Touring at higher speeds is possible, but loading it up to the hilt and expecting good fuel economy is an unreasonable expectation. Touring at speed all day on a single cylinder 250 is like sitting on a cement mixer, the  vibrations will shake your teeth loose! Don't expect to travel fully loaded at any decent speeds unless it's downhill all the way with a tailwind. 

I am blessed having multiple bikes so I can choose the best one for the journey. Some people are just satisfied travelling everywhere on a cult-like CT110, plenty of time to just smell the roses. 

Sadly, you are not the first person with unreasonable expectations for the T7. The weight of a mountain bike with the power of an R1, the torque of a Commins diesel able to haul the biggest loads. With unlimited fuel range..... dammit it's a  piece of crap! , I should have brought a ..............

[eddylindenstein]

6 minutes ago, Louis said:

It's been well documented on this forum the T7 is under sprung! Updates to suspension will remedy the problems depending on your envisaged riding usage. This should be the guide to how much you spend. 

Touring at higher speeds is possible, but loading it up to the hilt and expecting good fuel economy is an unreasonable expectation. Touring at speed all day on a single cylinder 250 is like sitting on a cement mixer, the  vibrations will shake your teeth loose! Don't expect to travel fully loaded at any decent speeds unless it's downhill all the way with a tailwind. 

I am blessed having multiple bikes so I can choose the best one for the journey. Some people are just satisfied travelling everywhere on a cult-like CT110, plenty of time to just smell the roses. 

Sadly, you are not the first person with unreasonable expectations for the T7. The weight of a mountain bike with the power of an R1, the torque of a Commins diesel able to haul the biggest loads. With unlimited fuel range..... dammit it's a  piece of crap! , I should have brought a ..............

Yeah, I need the Boomer money and garage space to make all of that work.  Maybe a Super T and 250 are a better blend.  We’ll see.  It’s a good problem to have.

[mpatch]

1 minute ago, eddylindenstein said:

Yeah, I need the Boomer money and garage space to make all of that work.  Maybe a Super T and 250 are a better blend.  We’ll see.  It’s a good problem to have.

Boomer money and garage space.

Up until I few years ago I parked my bikes in my living room or on the front porch. Not a boomer and didn’t have a garage but I had managed to have a few bikes. 
It’s pretty simple you either limit what type of riding you’re able to do or you own multiple bikes, there’s no way around it. 

[eddylindenstein]

Just now, mpatch said:

Boomer money and garage space.

Up until I few years ago I parked my bikes in my living room or on the front porch. Not a boomer and didn’t have a garage but I had managed to have a few bikes. 
It’s pretty simple you either limit what type of riding you’re able to do or you own multiple bikes, there’s no way around it. 

If I sell T7 I’ll have to stomach storing a small dual sport or dirt bike outside with a moto cover.  I know people do this and it’s fine, but every bike I’ve owned has been garage-kept.  As the kids get older, it is just impossible to fit two motorcycles in the garage and have room for everything else that goes in there.

[Canzvt]

Don't give up, manage your expectations. Is soft luggage an option? This might reduce your luggage related issues. The T7 will tour no problem. I routinely do 700-800 km days (on the weekends) to get to and ride good off-road trails. 500kms of highway for 2-300kms of nice gravel/dual/single track, then home.

 

As for the garage, have a look at the background of these photos. This is my solution for NO ROOM! Garage is 22' x 24'. It contains:

 

- 1930 Chevy Coupe -right side of double garage

- 2013 Super T - Front of garage tucked in beside my gear and 1 work bench

- 1993 Yamaha GTS - Tucked in under storage shelves beside my wife's car

- 2021 T7 - Also tucked in under storage shelves beside my wife's car.

- 2 Tool Chests - front of garage

- 60 Gal floor mount compressor/tank - right rear corner of garage

- Mig Welder - under work bench

- No-Mar tire changer - under right side work bench

- 2 Work Benches - front and right side of garage

- All the kids sports gear, ski gear - various locations in storage bins

- And when it is all put away, my wife's 4 door sedan - left side of double garage

 

Bicycles have to live in a shed in the back yard as the garage is full of the above stuff.

 

I'm very fortunate that my bike inventory is limited by my ability to store stuff. My wife won out in that the house needed to be bigger than the garage when we bought...Next one will be different!

 

Good luck

[Colddog]

I'm about your size, 6'1", 185lbs,  went from 22clicks rear preload to 2 clicks with the rear spring upgrade to a 90nm rally raid offering.

Biggest most substantial change on this bike since new. 

Fork springs are now .65kg/mm and both ends are now great for my riding style.  9 clicks out on both compression and rebound on the forks.  Cant remember how many clicks on the rear shock but you get the idea.

[eddylindenstein]

18 minutes ago, Colddog said:

I'm about your size, 6'1", 185lbs,  went from 22clicks rear preload to 2 clicks with the rear spring upgrade to a 90nm rally raid offering.

Biggest most substantial change on this bike since new. 

Fork springs are now .65kg/mm and both ends are now great for my riding style.  9 clicks out on both compression and rebound on the forks.  Cant remember how many clicks on the rear shock but you get the idea.

How would you describe your riding style?