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Yamaha, if you're listening


luke29ermtb
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As I've been riding around on my T7 I've been thinking about the ideal adventure bike for me and unfortunately, while the T7 is a great bike, I think Yamaha can make something that is far more versatile and practical for those of us seeking a more long range off-road adventure. They should fill a gap in the market that is begging to be filled, at least from my perspective, by producing a proper 450 - 500cc adventure bike. What do I think is a proper adventure bike? Glad you asked.

 

Luke's ideal adventure bike requirements:

  • 450 - 500cc engine (single or twin running on 91RON fuel)
  • 6 speed gearbox (needs to cruise comfortably at 110km/h)
  • 21 inch front wheel (tubeless)
  • 18 inch rear wheel (tubeless)
  • 80/20 adventure tyres standard
  • Range of at least 500km, preferably 600km, with the stock fuel tank(s)
  • Quality, fully adjustable suspension out of the box (springs should be the only thing that needs changing and the rear shock has to have a remote preload adjuster)
  • Rear subframe designed for attachment and carriage of soft luggage
  • Rear rack standard (designed to interface to common soft luggage)
  • Strong bash plate standard
  • Barkbusters standard
  • Foam air filter standard with a high intake
  • External (easily serviceable) fuel filter standard
  • Proper toolkit (not like the joke that came with my T7)
  • Designed such that heavy protection bars do not need to be added to protect engine cases, radiators, etc.
  • Handling focussed on 80% off-road
  • Ergonomics suited to off-road riding for a large range of rider sizes
  • Stock dry weight of no more than 150kg (you need to be able to take the luggage off and tackle some serious trails)
  • Service intervals similar to the T7
  • Engine/gearbox life similar to the T7
  • Good wind/weather protection (needs to be good enough for big days in the saddle)
  • Large instrument display with the ability to load 3rd party maps such as Hema for off-road navigation
  • Inbuilt GPS (no need to connect to your phone via BlueTooth to navigate)
  • ABS and only needs about three rider modes (road, off-road and custom) that can be changed while moving with the latest mode remaining set after the engine is turned off

 

This would be a challenge to design and build and it wouldn't be cheap but it would be loads of fun and could take me places that I would not attempt on the T7.

 

Anyone else thinking the same way? Anything you'd add or change?

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On further reflection I'll add two more:

  • No need to be able to carry a pillion so the rear rack could be quite long
  • Not only does it need to be protected for when it goes down but it needs to be set up so that it is easy to pick up
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I think I agree with nearly all of this. I used to have   WR450F, now I have  T7.

 

This would be the best of both, key for me is servicing and lifespan, the 450f was just too needy. The T7 is great but very heavy in comparison.

Edited by RoyFrance
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As to fuel: with the new Duc, you can order aux rear tanks. Maybe a good solution.

 

Springs could be ordered to suit the rider right out of the shop.

 

Dear Santa... 

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I’d like T7 that’s was <160 kg.  The Honda 450L is close but would need serious mods to have the range and luggage capabilities. I looked hard at the 450 Honda before deciding on the T7, it’s was a close call. For the quick 80k Sunday morning therapy session the 450 would get the nod, anything past 115k on the Honda and I’d be ass sore and buzzing from the vibes. 
 

The T7 fills a big hole in motorcycling versions, more than most bikes. I’d like a bit less weight but overall the T7 is the sweet spot for me. 
 

Start old man rant in 3..2..1..

 

Its the damn EPA and E5 Shet, that and ABS and all the damned electronics. We have a ton of people around here in 7500 pound diesel trucks with 37 inch tires getting 14mpg hauling their ultra heavy iPhone 14 around. And we legislate emissions on a 200kg bike that gets 50 mpg.
 

Where’s my god damned TFC touch screen controller for the wind mill?

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On 10/16/2022 at 3:04 AM, RoyFrance said:

I think I agree with nearly all of this. I used to have   WR450F, now I have  T7.

 

This would be the best of both, key for me is servicing and lifespan, the 450f was just too needy. The T7 is great but very heavy in comparison.

I was thinking the exact same bike, the WR450f.  If some of the Australian guys could chime in, I’m pretty sure that Yamaha sells a street legal version of the WR450f in Australia, or at least they use too.  
 

Yamaha will produce the Ténéré 900 and drop Super Ténéré before they produce a smaller cc ADV motorcycle   IMHO.  
 

 

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I run a streetified '14 WR450 with a 14T front sprocket. Delivers 110km/h at ~6000 rpm. Definitely needs a 6th gear! Seat Concepts seat, skid plate, minimal (to be legal) lights. D606 tires. Wouldn't want to ride it all day unless all day was a serious mix of gravel back roads/dual track/single track. Mind (and arse) numbing on extended pavement. I'm sure the newer backwards WR would make an even better mount. Reliability is pretty good. Needs more oil capacity though...I've heard of several WR450's with 20,000+ kms on them without being opened up. Fuel range is good (150-180kms) with aftermarket acerbis tank (in stock location) and keeping the revs down. NOT quite what you were looking for, but as you indicate above, maybe a loose recipe for a great bike going forward. I'd buy one!

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I think I have Yamaha disease...

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4 hours ago, Redneckj said:

I was thinking the exact same bike, the WR450f.  If some of the Australian guys could chime in, I’m pretty sure that Yamaha sells a street legal version of the WR450f in Australia, or at least they use too.  
 

Yamaha will produce the Ténéré 900 and drop Super Ténéré before they produce a smaller cc ADV motorcycle   IMHO.  
 

 

Yes, the WR450F is street legal in Australia. They have been that way since the 400 in 1998.

I have had a 400 and 3 450s over the years. I have also had a WR250R. 

If Yamaha produced a WR450R then they would be close to the mark. The 250 had a rebuild recommended at 50k km whereas the 450F is 10k. 

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4 hours ago, Redneckj said:

I was thinking the exact same bike, the WR450f.  If some of the Australian guys could chime in, I’m pretty sure that Yamaha sells a street legal version of the WR450f in Australia,

 

 

Yeah there are lots of them, I looked at one before I bought my XT250 practice bike but the seat was too high for my confidence level.   I think it's actually higher than the T7's?

 

6271813_YAMAHA450F.jpg.8d7d8347980a58697db54ad8d10ea477.jpg

 

 

bikesales.com.au/bikes/yamaha/wr450f/

 

They sell them new still as well.

 

 

Australian off-road kit

All WR250F AND WR450Fs come with full ADR compliance and so can be road registered to ride in Australian state forests where permitted. Each bike also comes with a free off-road kit for closed course competition use which includes:
• Lightweight LED tail light/and licence plate holder

 

yamaha-motor.com.au/discover/news-and-events/news/motorcycle/2021/september/2022-wr250f-and-wr450f-revealed

 

Edited by winddown
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Clubby goes on a rant about this at 3min 30sec when discussing the new Gas Gas 450.

 

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I think if your the sort of person who'd buy a modern KTM in the first place, this wouldn't be a deal breaker 😁

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59 minutes ago, winddown said:

I think if your the sort of person who'd buy a modern KTM in the first place, this wouldn't be a deal breaker 😁

🙂 KTM was the first brand I looked at but they didn't, and still don't, have anything that meets the requirements I listed above. I've heard a rumour that Husky are going to bring out some smaller Nordens but they aren't what I'm looking for either unless they come stock with a large fuel tank (I'm not a fan of the Norden styling).

 

I'm asking for a bike that I can buy, run in, ride up to Mt Dare (via as much dirt as possible), across the Simpson and back to Adelaide without having to spend an extra fortune on it or having to carry extra fuel to make that possible. If it can do that then it can pretty much take you anywhere in Australia.

 

You know all the modified DRZ400s you see getting around remote places? Something like that but modern, more capable off-road, more comfortable on-road, more range and just as reliable. How old is the DRZ400 now? Technology has advanced a  long way since then. Someone will make a bike like this sooner or later. Will it be Yamaha?

 

In the meantime, I'll stick to less adventurous rides on the T7 that I can achieve without having to carry too much extra fuel.

Edited by luke29ermtb
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Isn't it funny how the lowly DRZ-400 is one of the most often referred to bikes regarding reliability, but in the same breath it's maligned as being too slow, too heavy, Yada, yada...  I've had three of them in the family and they really are old tech, but Suzuki keeps churning them out as the combination just seems to work.  

Looking over your list of wants the only thing I see as really difficult to acheive (at least from a manufacturer's perspective) is the 150kg ( 330 lb) requirement.  I'm not saying it isn't possible for someone to build a bike that light with all the other attributes,  but so far,  to answer your question,  no. Yamaha or any other manufacturer isn't listening,  at least we haven't seen anything that fits all the above criteria.  

 

There's a thread on ADVRider that has been running for 4 years discussing ADV builds under 400 lbs ( 181 kg) that has heaps of ideas. I haven't read all 93 pages, but don't believe anyone has achieved the ultimate ADV bike that does it all.  Maybe that's the problem, the ultimate ADV bike is a moving target for so many of us that the manufacturers look at previous successes, i.e. DRZ-400, then make tweaks here and there, rather than jumping in with both feet and embracing all those ideas,  costs be damned. 

I totally agree, it would be very expensive with exotic alloys needed to keep weight down, etc.,, but it would be really cool to see one and maybe take out a second mortgage to get one. 😉

 

adv_og_logo.png

Post your light weight Adventure Bike Builds here. Criteria for this thread is: 1. 200 mile fuel range 2. Some type of panniers or soft luggage to...

 

 

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" Oliver Wendell Holmes - Mods - HDB handguards, Camel-ADV Gut guard, 1 finger clutch, The Fix pedal & Rally pipe, RR side/tail rack, RR 90nm spring & Headlight guard, Rally seat, OEM heated grips- stablemate Beta 520RS

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Well my KTM 500 has been filing this role quite nicely.

 

Your complete list is a motorcycle version of a Unicorn or it is made from Unbotanium! You will never get a bike like that from a mainstream manufacturer. Too expensive to build to make money. Cause if they did build it, then there will be a post bashing them for the 30K ADV bike!  😉

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On 10/25/2022 at 1:24 AM, Firebolter said:

Well my KTM 500 has been filing this role quite nicely.

 

Your complete list is a motorcycle version of a Unicorn or it is made from Unbotanium! You will never get a bike like that from a mainstream manufacturer. Too expensive to build to make money. Cause if they did build it, then there will be a post bashing them for the 30K ADV bike!  😉

A WR450F is 119kg wet. I'd be very surprised if Yamaha couldn't get close with over 30kg to work with.

 

There is an ever-growing number of $30k ADV bikes that can't do what this bike will be able to do. It is a different value proposition where simplicity, reliability and capability are prioritised over power and complexity.

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On 10/24/2022 at 4:41 PM, luke29ermtb said:

🙂 KTM was the first brand I looked at but they didn't, and still don't, have anything that meets the requirements I listed above. I've heard a rumour that Husky are going to bring out some smaller Nordens but they aren't what I'm looking for either unless they come stock with a large fuel tank (I'm not a fan of the Norden styling).

 

I'm asking for a bike that I can buy, run in, ride up to Mt Dare (via as much dirt as possible), across the Simpson and back to Adelaide without having to spend an extra fortune on it or having to carry extra fuel to make that possible. If it can do that then it can pretty much take you anywhere in Australia.

 

You know all the modified DRZ400s you see getting around remote places? Something like that but modern, more capable off-road, more comfortable on-road, more range and just as reliable. How old is the DRZ400 now? Technology has advanced a  long way since then. Someone will make a bike like this sooner or later. Will it be Yamaha?

 

In the meantime, I'll stick to less adventurous rides on the T7 that I can achieve without having to carry too much extra fuel.

Daryl Beatie Adventures are using Honda CRF450Ls which require an oil change every 1,000km. They can do that because they have an awesome support truck. I don't 🙂 

 

The example I gave above is about 3,000km and you wouldn't want to be carrying oil and a filter.

Edited by luke29ermtb
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  • 4 weeks later...

If anything, the 39L fuel capacity on the Rieju Adventure 500 is excessive but it is a step in the right direction.

 

Rieju-Aventura-500-legend-adventure-moto

It’s always good news to hear about reasonably sized adventure bikes coming to market, especially those in the 500cc range. This one, the Aventura 500 Legend from Spanish brand Rieju, was announced at EICMA in Milan and...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting closer

logo_fantic.jpg?v=1.0

Fantic Motor, inizia qui la tua nuova strada. Vasta gamma di Moto: Motard, Caballero, Motocross, Enduro e EBikes: Issimo e MTB

 

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On 11/24/2022 at 6:54 AM, luke29ermtb said:

If anything, the 39L fuel capacity on the Rieju Adventure 500 is excessive but it is a step in the right direction.

 

 

It looks good on the specs, and it appears to made wholly in Spain.   benelli I was surprised to find out is owned now by Qianjiang Motorcycle, a Chinese company.  All their offerings come out of the PRC.  I don't think I would ever ride a Chinese bike, I've had enough bad experiences with their toasters and hand tools.

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14 hours ago, luke29ermtb said:

Getting closer

logo_fantic.jpg?v=1.0

Fantic Motor, inizia qui la tua nuova strada. Vasta gamma di Moto: Motard, Caballero, Motocross, Enduro e EBikes: Issimo e MTB

 

Pretty cool bike. $24K USD is a heap of cash, but for it's intended purpose,  I'll wager it'll probably be on the podium in capable hands.

 

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" Oliver Wendell Holmes - Mods - HDB handguards, Camel-ADV Gut guard, 1 finger clutch, The Fix pedal & Rally pipe, RR side/tail rack, RR 90nm spring & Headlight guard, Rally seat, OEM heated grips- stablemate Beta 520RS

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3 hours ago, AZJW said:

Pretty cool bike. $24K USD is a heap of cash, but for it's intended purpose,  I'll wager it'll probably be on the podium in capable hands.

Here's the Rebel Sports version at EUR14,000. Needs to be less rally and more adventure though.

 

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17 minutes ago, luke29ermtb said:

Here's the Rebel Sports version at EUR14,000. Needs to be less rally and more adventure though.

 

Man, that thing oozes sex appeal!  Kinda like Gina Lollobrigida with knobby tires!

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"Men do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" Oliver Wendell Holmes - Mods - HDB handguards, Camel-ADV Gut guard, 1 finger clutch, The Fix pedal & Rally pipe, RR side/tail rack, RR 90nm spring & Headlight guard, Rally seat, OEM heated grips- stablemate Beta 520RS

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1 hour ago, AZJW said:

Man, that thing oozes sex appeal!  Kinda like Gina Lollobrigida with knobby tires!

It is pretty easy, for me anyway, to imagine something like that from Yamaha in white and red livery. Less race, more reliability, more longevity, with the original 30L fuel capacity and we'd have a winner.

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