Camel High Fender Kit - bleeding brakes

[roygilbo]

Wondering what I may have done wrong.  Two issues. 

1. The three banjo bolts on the unit that bolts onto the triple clamp are all leaking.
2. Also having trouble bleeding the brakes. 

The bottom bleed valves have nice clear brake fluid coming out whilst bleeding with little to no bubbles.

However can still pull the lever almost back to the grip.

 

Now I have to take everything apart to fix 1.  

 

Any ideas? 

 

 

Edited March 11 by roygilbo
updating issues.

[Budo]

Hi, 

 

      @roygilbo.

 

Perhaps an obvious question, however, are the aluminum crush washers in place? If they are, did you use new ones? It used to be, in a different world, those crush washer were copper and you could anneal them right there on your bench or floor. Other than that are the bolts  torqued to spec? Good Luck!

 

 

   Budo

[roygilbo]

15 minutes ago, Budo said:

Hi, 

 

      @roygilbo.

 

Perhaps an obvious question, however, are the aluminum crush washers in place? If they are, did you use new ones? It used to be, in a different world, those crush washer were copper and you could anneal them right there on your bench or floor. Other than that are the bolts  torqued to spec? Good Luck!

 

 

   Budo

They are copper and come with the kit.  Two per banjo bolt.  Not sure what torque is used for the proprietary Camel splitter unit.  

[Budo]

 

 

       Yes, I checked out the kit in the meantime. Nice touch the copper washers. Other than the block being defective, which would be an outlier, try tightening those bolts a bit more since all the bolts are leaking. Good Luck!  

 

     Budo

[random1781]

They need to be pretty tight. I didn't use a torque wrench, but I did put a good amount of force on those bolts. No need to take everything apart, just tighten them down more and see how it works.

 

Bleeding the front brakes on this bike can be a challenge too. Took a while for us to do them.

[Rider 101]

Just a note on annealing washers.

Copper is easy; heat and let cool.

Aluminium can be done.

Find a match or lighter and hold the washer above the flame to get a black soot ( carbon ) coat.

then carefully heat with a blowtorch until the black disappears.

Hey presto! annealed aluminium

A kitchen blowtorch would suffice to heat.

[roygilbo]

Thanks all!  

 

I have taken it all apart.  Will be bolting it back together and trying again.

@Budo @Rider 101 Is there a need to anneal if they have not been tightened too much (as they were leaking and I may need to torque more)?

Edited March 11 by roygilbo

[Rider 101]

Probably not.

Is the block that the banjo bolts screw into aluminium or steel?

Don't strip the thread by overtightening.

Do you have the service manual to crosscheck torque settings?

 

EDIT quick check and all banjo bolts are 30Nm

Edited March 11 by Rider 101

[roygilbo]

12 minutes ago, Rider 101 said:

Probably not.

Is the block that the banjo bolts screw into aluminium or steel?

Don't strip the thread by overtightening.

Do you have the service manual to crosscheck torque settings?

From the Camel site: "Our T7 high fender kit's crown jewel is the anodized billet aluminum fender adaptor/brake manifold."

On the calipers it is 30Nm (22ft lbs) and where they all connect into the ABS block is the same.  

Edited March 11 by roygilbo

[Rider 101]

Also 30Nm on the master cylinders and ABS block so I think you would be safe to do the same on the Camel manifold.

[roygilbo]

2 minutes ago, Rider 101 said:

Also 30Nm on the master cylinders and ABS block so I think you would be safe to do the same on the Camel manifold.

I think so as well.  

 

Just read this on a different thread  

 

I knew a gnarled old motorcycle mechanic back in Chicago. I once asked him how tight the bolts should be on a Harley Cylinder head. He told me "I always tighten them up until they strip and back off an eighth of a turn."

[Hollybrook]

A trick that often helps bleeding brakes is to first do a normal bleed process.  Then tie the lever back like you are putting on the brakes and leave it overnight (I use a velcro strap) and then bleed again the following day. 

[Budo]

   Hi. @roygilbo

 

    Concerning the your washers, probably no need to anneal them. 

 

 

 @Rider 101

 

     I had no idea. Thanks for the tip!

 

 

        Best, 

 

                       Budo

[roygilbo]

OK, all seems much better with the weepy banjo bolts.   I have been snugging them up as I see bits of fluid.  There seems to be torque tightening room available.  It is really difficult to torque to banjo bolt specs on this unit, as once installed, you cannot get a socket and torque wrench on them.  So I'm cranking by hand with a 14m wrench.

 

Now, after having the lever pulled in all night, @Hollybrook there is some resistance and the lever doesn't quite go right to the grip, but it is only perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 of where it should be.  

I have bled the valves again and there are no bubbles coming out.  

 

Kinda wondering what to do next?  Any assistance or tricks will be gratefully accepted.  I trust @Camel ADV has sold hundreds of these, so I cannot be the only one... 

 

Thanks.

Edited March 11 by roygilbo

[Simmons1]

Do what Hollybrook mentioned a couple posts up.  It has always worked for me.

Edited March 11 by Simmons1

[Camel ADV]

52 minutes ago, roygilbo said:

OK, all seems much better with the weepy banjo bolts.   I have been snugging them up as I see bits of fluid.  There seems to be torque tightening room available.  It is really difficult to torque to banjo bolt specs on this unit, as once installed, you cannot get a socket and torque wrench on them.  So I'm cranking by hand with a 14m wrench.

 

Now, after having the lever pulled in all night, @Hollybrook there is some resistance and the lever doesn't quite go right to the grip, but it is only perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 of where it should be.  

I have bled the valves again and there are no bubbles coming out.  

 

Kinda wondering what to do next?  Any assistance or tricks will be gratefully accepted.  I trust @Camel ADV has sold hundreds of these, so I cannot be the only one... 

 

Thanks.

I often don't see threads unless I'm tagged in them... I just got the notification.

The easiest way to bleed is to use one of the vacuum pumps... it saves all the pumping. $25 at Harbor Freight.

If you bleed with the bike straight up on a bench/lift or center stand, you'll battle a bit. If the bike is upright, air can be trapped in the manifold. Bleeding on the sidestand is much easier. Even better is to lean the bike against the shop wall for a bit more angle.

 

[roygilbo]

1 minute ago, Camel ADV said:

I often don't see threads unless I'm tagged in them... I just got the notification.

The easiest way to bleed is to use one of the vacuum pumps... it saves all the pumping. $25 at Harbor Freight.

If you bleed with the bike straight up on a bench/lift or center stand, you'll battle a bit. If the bike is upright, air can be trapped in the manifold. Bleeding on the sidestand is much easier. Even better is to lean the bike against the shop wall for a bit more angle.

 

Thanks Cory, I have been doing it on the lift.  No shop wall where I have my bike and I will check out the vacuum pump.  Love the kit, just need to get my brakes back so I can go out riding. 

That folks, is why @Camel ADV is the best!  

[roygilbo]

17 hours ago, roygilbo said:

Thanks Cory, I have been doing it on the lift.  No shop wall where I have my bike and I will check out the vacuum pump.  Love the kit, just need to get my brakes back so I can go out riding. 

That folks, is why @Camel ADV is the best!  

Bought the one below from KMS tools (looks identical, but different brand), but the jar does not makes a seal, so no way to hold the vacuum. all good! 

Edited March 12 by roygilbo
updated

[Budo]

HI @roygilbo, 

 

    I'm glad that Cory of Camel ADV chimed in with that explanation.  Sometime a bike can be difficult to bleed the brakes or purge the coolant system because air is trapped in some portion of the system. As a consequence, one has to put the bike in varying  positions to unlock the bubble of air and thereby giving it a place to go. Usually this is in the direction of up in the system.  It sounds like you have a handle on the situation now.   

 

 

       Cheers,   Budo