Removing the snorkel is a bad idea

[Ol'crazy]

After reading some posts in wich the removing the snorkel is recommended, I have do it during a couple of days.

 

My opinion is that the acceleration from idle is smoother. Probably the design of the air filter box and the snorkel limits the breathing capacity of the engine. I don't know if this is due to reduce emmisions or just a  bad design.

 

But the problem with that "solution", removing the snorkel, is not a great idea, saddly. Today I wash the bike in a petrol station and before starting the engine I decide to take a look to the air filter box. And the result of that inspection is in the first pic.

 

 After drying it and returning home, I reinstalled the snorkel, but I have cutted 4,1 cm (about 1,6 in) of the tube who enters in the box, trying to facilitate the engine to get air, and in the hope that the air filter will be usefull in his entire surface, not just in the bottom, where is visible the great majority of the dirt.

 

The best solution could be to buy a snorkel with a bigger diameter, and making the hole of the box bigger too.

 

I hope this was useful. Sorry by my english.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Ol'crazy

[Limey]

I said it was a bad idea on Facebook months ago especially when doing water crossings.

[Uncle M]

The Aussie MAD tv guys interviewed Uni Filter in this youtube vid. Uni recommended cutting off no more than 12-15 mm of the snorkel, enough to get some additional filtering but not so much it affects performance. I haven't done mine yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuW4AeJESzU&list=PLkM9-Vs7YnzgftIwZM6Qqpb_sMaQTyP11&index=3&t=0s

 

[REDHORSECA]

 

[johnnygolucky]

4 hours ago, Ol'crazy said:

I hope this was useful. Sorry by my english.

Your English is better than mine and I'm as Yankee as it gets. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and ideas. 

[TimeMachine]

7 hours ago, Ol'crazy said:

After reading some posts in wich the removing the snorkel is recommended, I have do it during a couple of days.

 

My opinion is that the acceleration from idle is smoother. Probably the design of the air filter box and the snorkel limits the breathing capacity of the engine. I don't know if this is due to reduce emmisions or just a  bad design.

 

But the problem with that "solution", removing the snorkel, is not a great idea, saddly. Today I wash the bike in a petrol station and before starting the engine I decide to take a look to the air filter box. And the result of that inspection is in the first pic.

 

 After drying it and returning home, I reinstalled the snorkel, but I have cutted 4,1 cm (about 1,6 in) of the tube who enters in the box, trying to facilitate the engine to get air, and in the hope that the air filter will be usefull in his entire surface, not just in the bottom, where is visible the great majority of the dirt.

 

The best solution could be to buy a snorkel with a bigger diameter, and making the hole of the box bigger too.

 

I hope this was useful. Sorry by my english.

You can solve it with the air box lid and a 4" Unifilter prefilter discussed in this video. The prefilter stops incidental water from entering the filter, although wont stop all the water if the bike tips over in a creek. But then the original snorkel also wont stop water on a full tip over.

 

 

[Ol'crazy]

9 hours ago, Uncle M said:

The Aussie MAD tv guys interviewed Uni Filter in this youtube vid. Uni recommended cutting off no more than 12-15 mm of the snorkel, enough to get some additional filtering but not so much it affects performance. I haven't done mine yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuW4AeJESzU&list=PLkM9-Vs7YnzgftIwZM6Qqpb_sMaQTyP11&index=3&t=0s

 

 

8 hours ago, REDHORSECA said:

 

 

Thanks for the video, guys. In my case is too late to cut only 12-15 mm :-). 
In any case that recomendation don't seems to be very scientific. And my first intention preciseely was affect the performance, not make the use of the filter more effectively. In fact, whithout the snorkel, the smoothness is clearly appreciable.
I'm goint to see the way to put a snorkel with a bigger diameter.

 

  

[Ol'crazy]

 

6 hours ago, johnnygolucky said:

Your English is better than mine and I'm as Yankee as it gets. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and ideas. 

 

Google translate is a priceless help

 

Thanks to you.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Ol'crazy

[Ol'crazy]

3 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

You can solve it with the air box lid and a 4" Unifilter prefilter discussed in this video. The prefilter stops incidental water from entering the filter, although wont stop all the water if the bike tips over in a creek. But then the original snorkel also wont stop water on a full tip over.

 

That is a great idea to make a lid with the snorkel incorporated using a 3D printer!!!

 

I'm going to see if the man of the video can/want to share the design. Or if his sons are thinking to sell the finished product. Could be...

 

Thanks a lot.

 

[Ol'crazy]

57 minutes ago, Hogan said:

What are the chances of you taking my recommendation - that is leave the bike alone and ride/enjoy the bike for what it is? And if it's not enough bike for you then just pony up and buy the KTM 790.

 

The reason for my efforts is to avoid the sudden delivery of power when the throttle is opened, trying to make it more progressive.

 

I am not looking for higher performance.

 

[TimeMachine]

37 minutes ago, Ol'crazy said:

 

That is a great idea to make a lid with the snorkel incorporated using a 3D printer!!!

 

I'm going to see if the man of the video can/want to share the design. Or if his sons are thinking to sell the finished product. Could be...

 

Thanks a lot.

 

If that man had half a brain he would put a link in the Youtube description to his son's post on eBay. 

[Canzvt]

Perhaps a little knowledge of fluid mechanics and mass flow is required here. If you look at the OEM design, it is actually quite intelligent. I'm not going to spend the time to actually figure out the pressure drop across the inlet snorkel to the filter, but my guess is that it is sufficient to flow enough air to the engine at WOT. The snorkel that drops down into the filter is likely designed to direct the heavier dirt particles to the bottom of the filter and preferentially 'plug' that filter area up, so that the rest of the filter (above the soiled area) can flow the required amount of air needed to sufficiently supply the engine WITH a largely soiled filter. This snorkel likely also creates a nice laminar flow area due to its design into the filter to only enhance this process.

 

The volume of the air box from this snorkel to the actual throttle bodies is what will give the bike its throttle application characteristics relative to airflow. Any 'choppiness or harshness' you seem to be trying to remove (I sure don't notice any...) is likely due to the air/fuel ratio programming coded into the ECU to maintain emissions compliance. Perhaps flashing your ECU with appropriate programming is a more suitable solution to your perceived issues than hacking your bike up.

[TimeMachine]

Here are some actual dyno results that compare stock with and without the snorkel. It also confirms the benefits of the MWR main filter and free flowing airbox lid.

 

MWR vs DNA air filter...DYNO TESTED!!! - Yamaha FZ-07 Parts and Accessories Reviews - The FZ-07 Forum

---

Hi everyone... So, its finally time to do my 8K service, and I thought Id change my DNA air filter to a new one. Im pretty particular, so I never just clean, re-oil, and reuse these reusable filters...I just buy a new one. I figured instead of ordering a new DNA filter from...

 

 

Some useful (but in parts contradictory) info here too.

 

[Canzvt]

I had a quick read through the above MT/FZ07 links above and how it might relate to our T7's. Clearly there are some accomplished CP2 tuners out there. Probably some very good resources if you talk to them directly.

 

I think Japan took over production of the T7 from France in September, 2019. The 'world' bikes all come from Japan (as far as I know). It is HIGHLY likely that the Japanese tuned bikes and the French tuned bikes have different tuning parameters. This might be a consideration in tuning the T7.

[Ol'crazy]

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

If that man had half a brain he would put a link in the Youtube description to his son's post on eBay. 

 

 

 

[Ol'crazy]

1 hour ago, Canzvt said:

Perhaps a little knowledge of fluid mechanics and mass flow is required here. If you look at the OEM design, it is actually quite intelligent. I'm not going to spend the time to actually figure out the pressure drop across the inlet snorkel to the filter, but my guess is that it is sufficient to flow enough air to the engine at WOT. The snorkel that drops down into the filter is likely designed to direct the heavier dirt particles to the bottom of the filter and preferentially 'plug' that filter area up, so that the rest of the filter (above the soiled area) can flow the required amount of air needed to sufficiently supply the engine WITH a largely soiled filter. This snorkel likely also creates a nice laminar flow area due to its design into the filter to only enhance this process.

 

The volume of the air box from this snorkel to the actual throttle bodies is what will give the bike its throttle application characteristics relative to airflow. Any 'choppiness or harshness' you seem to be trying to remove (I sure don't notice any...) is likely due to the air/fuel ratio programming coded into the ECU to maintain emissions compliance. Perhaps flashing your ECU with appropriate programming is a more suitable solution to your perceived issues than hacking your bike up.

 

Another possibility before theorizing about fluid mechanics is that you take off the snorkel, ride the bike for a few minutes and draw your own conclusions. I sure you notice the improvement...

 

[pgeldz]

4 hours ago, Ol'crazy said:

 

That is a great idea to make a lid with the snorkel incorporated using a 3D printer!!!

 

I'm going to see if the man of the video can/want to share the design. Or if his sons are thinking to sell the finished product. Could be...

 

Thanks a lot.

 

It's already been done (sorta).

 

MWR is releasing their new Filtercage with Outercover pretty soon.

 

Gives you the extra protection for extreme conditions, with exceptional flow characteristics for the best of both worlds.

 

It's based off of what the professional Rally Raid teams use

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by pgeldz

[Canzvt]

2 hours ago, Ol'crazy said:

 

Another possibility before theorizing about fluid mechanics is that you take off the snorkel, ride the bike for a few minutes and draw your own conclusions. I sure you notice the improvement...

 

Yep. You could do that. It will tell you something changed. It won't tell you why it changed, or how to understand what is going on, or how to remedy a fault, or ...

[Ol'crazy]

2 hours ago, pgeldz said:

It's already been done (sorta).

 

MWR is releasing their new Filtercage with Outercover pretty soon.

 

Gives you the extra protection for extreme conditions, with exceptional flow characteristics for the best of both worlds.

 

It's based off of what the professional Rally Raid teams use

 

I will be waiting very interested 

 

Thanks

 

[Ol'crazy]

51 minutes ago, Canzvt said:

Yep. You could do that. It will tell you something changed. It won't tell you why it changed, or how to understand what is going on, or how to remedy a fault, or ...

 

It telled me that something who did not working properly can be corrected easily. Enough for me...

 

[tenerecanada]

I will just add that I installed the MWR intake and filter, and the bike just screams now. Big fan, with an immediate noticeable difference in the way the bike breathes and pulls. 

[Rich TT]

If anyone has jet washed any bike ever (which we all do when we off road), when you take the seat off there is water underneath, no question. In/on the battery, electrics, airfilter, tools etc. I always whip the seat off and dry everything, so I don't think it's a big risk to run without the snorkel if you know to expect this. The only time I wouldn't would be if I'm seriously continuously mud-plugging and it's pissing it down. Which I won't. 

 

Snorkel off, sponge "off road" filter and a remap for me coming up...and maybe some Ti headers from Arrow . Just need to flog my 99 Fireblade to fund it!!

 

Rich

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, tenerecanada said:

I will just add that I installed the MWR intake and filter, and the bike just screams now. Big fan, with an immediate noticeable difference in the way the bike breathes and pulls. 

Remap or standard?

[tenerecanada]

19 minutes ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Remap or standard?

No remap yet I just popped it in to see what my baseline improvement would be. Left it in now for about 1000km with no temp increases or anything, it all seems to be fine. RapidBike Evo is probably in the works for next season when I begin to look at exhaust options.

[Aleksandar13]

Just now, tenerecanada said:

No remap yet I just popped it in to see what my baseline improvement would be. Left it in now for about 1000km with no temp increases or anything, it all seems to be fine. RapidBike Evo is probably in the works for next season when I begin to look at exhaust options.

I am aiming to get the rapid bike as well, maybe Christmas present with open lid and foam filter from off the road.de as it seems the same but half price. 

Aleks