High vs. Low exhaust, pros and cons?

[antonijn]

Bumping this thread. 

I have the HP coarse high mounted exhaust, it came with the bike when I bought it. 

The pipe is rubbing against the pilion footpeg bracket and has worn it down a bit. 

 

When I noticed,  I loosened the exhaust and muffler and tightened it again, there was some clearance.

 

But I just checked again, after a few rides and it's rubbing again. 

 

Anybody has this issue?

[Tenerider]

50 minutes ago, antonijn said:

Bumping this thread. 

I have the HP coarse high mounted exhaust, it came with the bike when I bought it. 

The pipe is rubbing against the pilion footpeg bracket and has worn it down a bit. 

 

When I noticed,  I loosened the exhaust and muffler and tightened it again, there was some clearance.

 

But I just checked again, after a few rides and it's rubbing again. 

 

Anybody has this issue?

Haven't observed it on my bike - I removed the passenger footpegs about half a year ago. Before, there were definitely no issues with rubbing for, say, 4000 km.

[kainic]

Bumping up this thread.

 

I am running black widow with Camel ADV enduro high bend. I am looking for a quieter exhaust. Any suggestions other than Huzar?

[Hollybrook]

The CamelADV muffler with dB killer inserted is quiet. 

[Baloo]

Looking at the options for Exhaust systems and the list is growing, now I am looking at Mivv and Arrow as well as Camel, Huzzar, and HP Corsa.
My new question is about hard case racks and compatibility. I have Happy Trails racks and boxes, the boxes are 13-14 years old and bombproof.
I have heard Huzzar fits with no problem, Camel ADV has not tested their unit(s) with that combo, and Mivv says no panniers and racks. Mivv looks like a pretty generic disclosure. Looking at pictures from manufacturers Mivv and Arrow might work and the Camel Enduro might (I know the site says no-go). Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge?

[ScorpionT16]

56 minutes ago, Baloo said:

Looking at the options for Exhaust systems and the list is growing, now I am looking at Mivv and Arrow as well as Camel, Huzzar, and HP Corsa.
My new question is about hard case racks and compatibility. I have Happy Trails racks and boxes, the boxes are 13-14 years old and bombproof.
I have heard Huzzar fits with no problem, Camel ADV has not tested their unit(s) with that combo, and Mivv says no panniers and racks. Mivv looks like a pretty generic disclosure. Looking at pictures from manufacturers Mivv and Arrow might work and the Camel Enduro might (I know the site says no-go). Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge?

 

The HPCorse tucks in and is the cleanest, works with almost all racks. Only thing is it needs a tail tidy and lower signal mounts. The welds, looks, brackets, and hardware are very well done. The rest all look look like DIY options someone made vs a factory finish look imo

[Hammerhead]

If you’ve had a chance to look closely at anything Camel turns out, including their exhaust options, to call them “DIY looking” is, for lack of better words, somewhat insulting & ignorant towards the level of thought & craftsmanship put into their top shelf products. Some of my ‘carpenters mechanical’ mods, on the other hand, definitely represent the DIY style you speak of. 

[prowlnS10]

My Reasons for a High Exhaust (MIVV Dakar):

• I wanted a tucked in, high mount exhaust that retained the welded on oem exhaust hanger & use of the oem footpeg hanger
• lighter weight, improved aesthetics & packaging that eliminate the oem design flaws (wide, low, heavy exhaust that can damage swingarm, bend welded on muffler hanger, necessitate overly wide luggage racks adding  undesirable handling dynamics at the back end & complicate the use of some soft bag & rackless systems)
• the repositioned exhaust allowed narrowing of my DirtRacks HD Soft Luggage Racks resulting in a total width of the racks from side to side to 52 cm or 20.5"
• increased performance was more of a benefit than a significant motivator (2WheelDynoWorks has noted that the muffler actually flows reasonably well & that the main restriction in the exhaust system is the catalytic converter & the airbox snorkel on the intake side)

Con:

• muffler outlet may be directly onto turn signals, depending on if oem tail assembly or aftermarket tail tidy
• oem welded on muffler hanger creates clearance issues & design constraints for mid-pipe design (if Yamaha had utilized a bolt on hanger, removal would create room for a larger muffler with more volume than typical aftermarket mufflers) 
• some high muffler mounting brackets may not be compatible with existing luggage side & tail rack systems without modification
• some high muffler systems may not be compatible with the oem passenger peg hangers
• the straight gen 1 MIVV Dakar mid-pipe did not permit full travel of the swingarm & required modifications to clear (a curved gen 2 mid-pipe has replaced the original design)

 

Dominator, Huzar, HP Corsa, MIVV & SC Projects provide bolt on systems that relocate the muffler high & tucked in via a custom bend mid-pipe that meet my criteria. I am a huge fan of Camel Adv products, but opted not to use their 2 exhaust options for the T7: They were an early adopter of a popular repositioned high mount exhaust system that remains faithful to the Dakar look that addressed the easily bent hanger & muffler hitting/damaging the swing arm problem & added an Enduro Bend that positions the muffler more parallel to the rear side panel...but both necessitate cutting the exhaust hanger (Camel provides a template & hanger clamp) & the Enduro Bend is not compatible with the foot peg hanger & imho has an ugly, undesirable near 90 degree bend of the mid-pipe connector at the swingarm + both styles do not relocate the muffler much more inward than the oem & may direct the hot exhaust toward the turn signals.  

 

Full details of my MIVV Dakar install can be viewed on my blog here.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by prowlnS10

[Hollybrook]

I look at CamelADV's solution of cutting the stock muffler hanger as a benefit.  The stock hanger is poorly designed and an obvious point of failure.  The CamelADV bracket is much sturdier. 

 

The welds on the CamelADV mid pipes are a work of art. I have worked as a machinist and fabricator, and have never seen better. 

 

While the CamelADV enduro bend is sharper than some of the other high pipes, it is also noticeably larger diameter and I suspect flows at least as well.  I would be happy to measure the diameter mine if anyone with a MIVV or HP Corse would like to compare. 

 

Finally, the enduro bend version does move the exhaust inwards significantly and I have no issues with turn signals, though I also have a tail tidy. 

 

The MIVV and especially the HP Corse are fine solutions.  I hate to see CamelADV's excellent one dissed for reasons that I personally disagree with. 

 

[Toymaster]

It may be subjective, but the HP corse is sexy as hell.  It has looks, top-of-the-line materials, and sturdy design. 

[Tenerider]

1 minute ago, Toymaster said:

It may be subjective, but the HP corse is sexy as hell.  It has looks, top-of-the-line materials, and sturdy design. 

Agree, and I'm happy in every aspect with mine - sound, look, finish, quality.

[prowlnS10]

3 hours ago, Hollybrook said:

I look at CamelADV's solution of cutting the stock muffler hanger as a benefit.  The stock hanger is poorly designed and an obvious point of failure.  The CamelADV bracket is much sturdier. 

 

The welds on the CamelADV mid pipes are a work of art. I have worked as a machinist and fabricator, and have never seen better. 

 

While the CamelADV enduro bend is sharper than some of the other high pipes, it is also noticeably larger diameter and I suspect flows at least as well.  I would be happy to measure the diameter mine if anyone with a MIVV or HP Corse would like to compare. 

 

Finally, the enduro bend version does move the exhaust inwards significantly and I have no issues with turn signals, though I also have a tail tidy. 

 

The MIVV and especially the HP Corse are fine solutions.  I hate to see CamelADV's excellent one dissed for reasons that I personally disagree with. 

 

See pic for the o.d. dimensions of the MIVV Dakar gen 1 straight mid-pipe (the gen 2 version is shaped differently with smaller diameter pipe in the 1st 2/3). The MIVV Dakar mid-pipe progressively increases in diameter from 48.5 mm just after the connection with the oem header pipe (the 44.4 mm connection diameter is smaller than the oem equivalent part, eliminating the use of the oem gasket & necessitating a smaller diameter included clamp) to 55 mm at the muffler connection.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by prowlnS10

[Hollybrook]

I took a quick measurement of the CamelADV enduro mid pipe and it appears to be 51mm from header to muffler.  That's 32% larger cross sectional area than the 44.4mm connection and 10% larger than the 48.5mm at the first bend.

 

My gut is that the larger diameter is more important than the slightly tighter path, but this is not my area of expertise.  I suspect you would be hard pressed to see a significant difference on a dyno.

 

I'm curious about the diameter of the gen 2 MIVV mid pipe.  It looks noticeably smaller diameter and is the one I usually see in photos.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Hollybrook

[prowlnS10]

12 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

I took a quick measurement of the CamelADV enduro mid pipe and it appears to be 51mm from header to muffler.  That's 32% larger cross sectional area than the 44.4mm connection and 10% larger than the 48.5mm at the first bend.

 

My gut is that the larger diameter is more important than the slightly tighter path, but this is not my area of expertise.  I suspect you would be hard pressed to see a significant difference on a dyno.

 

I'm curious about the diameter of the gen 2 MIVV mid pipe.  It looks noticeably smaller diameter and is the one I usually see in photos.

The i.d. of the oem header outlet pipe should remain constant for all aftermarket pipes connecting to it to ensure universal fitment, in essence being the choke point (o.d. of attaching pipe at that location is irelevent)....so it will be the diameter of pipes after that point that can be compared for cross section. 

 

It is curious how different manufactures approach similar product design differnetly...as they say the devil is in the details & as you postulate logic should prevail that larger & constant diameter pipe should produce better flow dynamics of which Cory's designs appear to have incorporated :). 

 

It does appear that MIVV is using smaller diameter pipe in the revised mid-pipe...at the time of purchase last year the MIVV & HP Corsa were my short list with both being very similar in look & design & bought the MIVV because of a lower price & a slightly lower muffler outlet position for improved clearance with my tail tidy/turn signals...although I would not buy the current MIVV because of the revised mid-pipe & suspect that they have not re-dyno'd  the new system...they still have not changed the pics on their website from the original design!

[Boondocker]

A con for some people might be the lack of a spark arrester (this is more "after-market exhaust", not necessarily high mount specific). Not that I ever expect it to be an issue for me given where I typically ride, but I would like to find a spark arrester for my HP Corse.

 

For what it's worth, I kept the stock rear fender as I prefer it over tail tidy's. However, the stock rear signal lights location doesn't work with the HP Corse and probably not for most other high mount exhausts.  My post on dealing with that issue is here.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Boondocker
verbiage

[ta22]

@Boondocker ask hp corse for one.  I got a spark arrestor included with my SP1.

 

@antonijn I did not have any clearance issues even with lowering the pillion foot pegs by about 5mm with the outback motortek pannier racks spacer.  My clearance is minimal, maybe 8 to 10mm.  If you post a pic...I'd be more than happy to provide a second set of eyes on the mount to see if there is anything incorrect, we all miss things : )

 

This brings up a con that folks have hinted at, but fitment for other after market gear is typically made more complicated when trying to add stuff from different brands.  My Adventure Spec side racks did not fit with the hpcorse SP1 high mount because the bolt head on the rack mounting bracket at the pillion peg was just slightly too low and touching the top of the S bend in the exhaust.  AND yes a tail tidy was required.  Used the altrider tail tidy, but had to lower the mounting point for my turn signals (Denali t3 rear signals pods with license plate mount)...see pic (might cut existing turn signal tabs off for a cleaner look but they don't bug me much with all my luggage on as it is now)...

[Toymaster]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:45 PM, Boondocker said:

A con for some people might be the lack of a spark arrester (this is more "after-market exhaust", not necessarily high mount specific). Not that I ever expect it to be an issue for me given where I typically ride, but I would like to find a spark arrester for my HP Corse.

 

For what it's worth, I kept the stock rear fender as I prefer it over tail tidy's. However, the stock rear signal lights location doesn't work with the HP Corse and probably not for most other high mount exhausts.  My post on dealing with that issue is here.

 

51mm OD Spark Arrestor for Camel ADV High Exhaust Yamaha 700 Tenere T7

---

You wanted it, now we have them! We're happy to introduce our drop-in spark arrestor for Camel ADV's T7 High Exhaust kit.  This spark arrestor insert drops into the muffler's inlet and is retained when the link pipe is slid into...

 

[maddog123]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:43 AM, Wintersdark said:

Yeah, the potential power loss is compared to an aftermarket exhaust without sharp bends, not compared to the stock exhaust.  Basically any aftermarket is going to have gains compared to the OEM, as the OEM muffler is FAR more restrictive.  

 

With that said, I agree: Nobody is going to notice it.  Oh, people always say they do, but of course they do.  When you've spent probably upwards of a thousand dollars upgrading your exhaust system, there's an incredible amount of self-bias in Feeling The Difference.  And of course we're all proud rider sorts, so of course we can tell, right?.  But frankly, I'd bet big money that any given regular rider cannot tell the difference of +/- 2hp (at most, typically less) on a ~70hp bike.  You can tell if there's a sudden dip in the powerband somewhere, but a well tuned system will typically just arc a little higher across the board (usually less gain than the peak) and it's really not a noticeable change at all.  Different exhaust systems will vary by like .5-1hp between them. 

 

What I find for CP2 engines anyways where you will definitely notice a difference is if you open the intake as well (pull the snorkel out; further modifications after removing the snorkel ie high flow filters don't do anything) and have a tune for that, the power drop after peak is FAR less significant, so the bike doesn't feel "breathless" anymore at high RPM's.  IMHO it's a very worthwhile modification, but if you don't tune for it you'll feel a bit lower low end power which can be corrected by a flash.  Even without a flash I feel it's worthwhile to get more use out of the high RPM range.  

 

This after a year spent with an MT07, a full FTECU kit with a couple flashes to alternate between and different configurations spent testing.  The stock intake is very choked off by the snorkel, and the stock filter (same on the T7 as MT07) gets dirty at the very bottom where air flows through making it worse.  Air goes down the snorkel, then has to go up inside the filter to clear filter medium, then it can pass through.  Snorkel removal is a very significant change, as air goes in and has a clear path through the filter relatively equally throughout it's surface.

 

Edit to add (and go even further off topic, weeee!): If you do remove the snorkel, a handy thing to grab is the Funnelweb pre-filter.  It's a pineapple looking waterproof pre-filter that plugs into the top of the airbox when the snorkel is removed.  It eliminates the benefit of removing the snorkel, but gets you a washable pre-filter that will keep water out of your engine if you drown the bike.  I have one that I take with me on trips where I'll be doing either very dusty offroad rides or splashing around in water, as installing it is toolless and as simple as turning the key to remove the seat and plugging it into the airbox. 

 

 

I was impressed how much HP differences Yoshimura exhaust felt , and believed me I installed mine purely for the sound, they always advertise power increase but it is rarely the case, Yoshimura reports some pretty conservative and realistic HP and torque increase (3.3hp and 1.4lb/ft) Now I believe and can feel every digit especially down low it had a bog with the stock exhaust, before putting it on I had to pop the clutch pretty hard to lift the front end and with the exhaust I lift the front end with throttle only and I feel it in my arms as well at peak HP RPM personally I think anyone who tried both would feel a differences. yes I heard the air intake upgrade makes a big differences as well.       

 

[maddog123]

To me the main draw back for high exhaust mount is cost because if you do a high exhaust mount, mine as well to get a aftermarket exhaust then in my case I would've need the flasher swap, I have read these flasher attach below get directly in front of the exhaust and I can tell they would then the rubber dries up and they break off, it is not a problem with the new or Europeans LED flat flashers, then once you are there mine as well to do the tidy tail swap so it gets expensive ...     For looks I think the high exhaust looks better... I agree the extra bend cost you some HP or fractions of, it has too its called shock loss and resistance.  

 

 

[Boondocker]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:59 AM, ta22 said:

@Boondocker ask hp corse for one.  I got a spark arrestor included with my SP1.

I couldn't find anything on the HP Corse site about a spark arrestor. My exhaust came with a DB Killer, which will remain installed.

Measurement of inside diameter of the exhaust outlet (DB Killer installed) is 30mm. Without the DB Killer is closer to 50mm.

50mm is seems to be a common size, 30mm is not.

[ta22]

@Boondocker I had to direct message them...nothing on the website and took a bit of guess work on how it was installed.

 

Looks very similar to the one that camel adv sells, but I don't know about diameter.

[Ede-DE]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:48 PM, maddog123 said:

 

I was impressed how much HP differences Yoshimura exhaust felt , and believed me I installed mine purely for the sound, they always advertise power increase but it is rarely the case, Yoshimura reports some pretty conservative and realistic HP and torque increase (3.3hp and 1.4lb/ft) Now I believe and can feel every digit especially down low it had a bog with the stock exhaust, before putting it on I had to pop the clutch pretty hard to lift the front end and with the exhaust I lift the front end with throttle only and I feel it in my arms as well at peak HP RPM personally I think anyone who tried both would feel a differences. yes I heard the air intake upgrade makes a big differences as well.       

 

The power or torque increase is absolute nonsense. The only thing you get is a difference in weight, looks and noise compared to the original Yam muffler/exhaust.

 

There's a test on YT that shows it drastically. You may not understand the words (german) but the graphics speak for themselves. They did the testing w/o altering the software.

 

I have another question. What are these spark arrestors for? I can only imagine that no wildfire should be initiated by sparks coming from the exhaust. But there's a catalytic converter in the exhaust system. No spark coming from the engine should pass that.

 

 

[Simmons1]

6 hours ago, Ede-DE said:

 

I have another question. What are these spark arrestors for? I can only imagine that no wildfire should be initiated by sparks coming from the exhaust. But there's a catalytic converter in the exhaust system. No spark coming from the engine should pass that.

 

 

I agree, but here in the United states the USFS requires them when riding on public land.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/t-d/pubs/html/03511304/03511304.htm

[maddog123]

18 hours ago, Ede-DE said:

The power or torque increase is absolute nonsense. The only thing you get is a difference in weight, looks and noise compared to the original Yam muffler/exhaust.

 

There's a test on YT that shows it drastically. You may not understand the words (german) but the graphics speak for themselves. They did the testing w/o altering the software.

 

I have another question. What are these spark arrestors for? I can only imagine that no wildfire should be initiated by sparks coming from the exhaust. But there's a catalytic converter in the exhaust system. No spark coming from the engine should pass that.

 

 

lol and yet they show a power increase on the graph 

[eyeguy]

Just ordered a hp corse short muffler enduro pipe and high exhaust. Love the look, loss of weight and reduced likelyhood of damage to muffler hanger and potentially swing arm. Test drove a bike I was considering buying with hp corse and 2wheeldynoworxs flash and was impressed. Hope my bike responds the same. Happy to hear the hp muffler tends to stay pretty cool so reduced chances of melting luggage going forward...