Another cracked frame!!

[Canzvt]

Ok, now that I have your attention, IT WASN'T YAMAHA'S FAULT!!! It was the dumb-ass owner - me!

So I was installing my new Acerbis tank, and had all the plastic off for other reasons, and noticed, to my disappointment, that my rear tie down lugs in the frame rails had cracked welds. Now, judging from the corrosion around the crack, I'm guessing it has been cracked awhile. So, that makes me think of the last loads I had on them. I was using Outback Motortek racks with Mosko Moto's Backcountry 25L bags and a rotopax on each side. (see image) Worked great on the road, but not so much on the trail, as the bags were too far forward and would catch your ankles. Turns out, it will crack your frame too! 

 

So, if you plan on loading your racks with too much crap, and riding off road  in some gnarly rocked out sections, consider what I have learned.

 

Luckily the fix was quick. Remove the battery, then the ECU (easy as the plastic is off already), grind out the weld, and spark up the MIG. A little buffing, and a coat of paint, and who would know? I'm also now running Mosko's Reckless setup, so no more need to worry about loading the tie down lugs!

[Hollybrook]

@Canzvt Since you didn't mention it, the front lugs were OK?

 

I am thinking that a tail rack tied to the lugs might have added some reinforcement, but not sure that would have avoided the damage completely.  I will have to watch mine since I have some weight and leverage applied to mine.

[Hollybrook]

I just looked at my bike and the front lugs have a matching lug on the other side of the frame.  It looks like you might be able to run a tap through the outside lug and tap the inside one to match.  This would allow a longer bolt to be used that would greatly reduce the possibility of a crack developing on the perimeter of the outside lug.  I think I am going to try this and will report back on how it works.

 

Unfortunately, the rear lugs do not have a matching lug on the inside of the frame.

[Canzvt]

I'm not sure a tail rack would have saved anything. Lighter loading probably would have. As for the lug on the inside of the rail, that would definitely help, but as you said, there isn't one on the inside of the rear ones.

[Rider 101]

20 hours ago, Canzvt said:

Ok, now that I have your attention, IT WASN'T YAMAHA'S FAULT!!! It was the dumb-ass owner - me!

So I was installing my new Acerbis tank, and had all the plastic off for other reasons, and noticed, to my disappointment, that my rear tie down lugs in the frame rails had cracked welds. Now, judging from the corrosion around the crack, I'm guessing it has been cracked awhile. So, that makes me think of the last loads I had on them. I was using Outback Motortek racks with Mosko Moto's Backcountry 25L bags and a rotopax on each side. (see image) Worked great on the road, but not so much on the trail, as the bags were too far forward and would catch your ankles. Turns out, it will crack your frame too! 

 

So, if you plan on loading your racks with too much crap, and riding off road  in some gnarly rocked out sections, consider what I have learned.

 

Luckily the fix was quick. Remove the battery, then the ECU (easy as the plastic is off already), grind out the weld, and spark up the MIG. A little buffing, and a coat of paint, and who would know? I'm also now running Mosko's Reckless setup, so no more need to worry about loading the tie down lugs!

Wow; the Rotapax are a long way back and adding leverage to the mount points

[Canzvt]

48 minutes ago, Rider 101 said:

Wow; the Rotapax are a long way back and adding leverage to the mount points

Yep, they were. Learned my lesson on what NOT to do. Again, I've sold that setup and have gone much lighter and more compact.

[random1781]

41 minutes ago, Canzvt said:

Yep, they were. Learned my lesson on what NOT to do. Again, I've sold that setup and have gone much lighter and more compact.

I initially had the Outback Motortek/Backcountry 35s and hated that setup on the Tenere. Unless they were pushed all the way to the front, they were too far rear of the axle, and when pushed to the front half the bags hangs off the rack. I don't think the T7 is well suited for a full rack.

 

Glad you were able to repair it!

[Hollybrook]

3 hours ago, Canzvt said:

I'm not sure a tail rack would have saved anything. Lighter loading probably would have. As for the lug on the inside of the rail, that would definitely help, but as you said, there isn't one on the inside of the rear ones.

I think it depends on the way the rack attaches to the bike.  I have a CamelADV rack that should provide some support. 

[Canzvt]

So here's the new set up with the new Acerbis tank, a Camel Mini Rack and the Mosko Reckless 80L and my new tool tube (I'll do another write up on that elsewhere). I like this set-up much better as it gives me more options.

[Dougie]

Looking at this got me thinking about the soft bag racks on the market that don’t have any support apart from the mounting at the top. They’re going to have the same leverage on the lugs. I take it some must have lower support around the back? Otherwise even strapping down a heavy bag might be an issue. As @Canzvt says it’s an aftermarket issue not a yam one. The larger frames always have a bar between them to take the crushing forces. I’ll keep an eye on mine. 

[random1781]

16 hours ago, Dougie said:

The larger frames always have a bar between them to take the crushing forces. I’ll keep an eye on mine. 

You mean a cross bar on the luggage rack? I had the Adventure Spec soft racks and now the Rally Raid rack, and neither have anything on the back. They both attach on the two lugs and on the passenger peg bracket.

 

I've thought about trying to add a bar across the back for that added support, but the racks themselves have some flex. I wonder if it's better that they are not braced so they absorb more of an impact. I keep going back and forth on that.

[Hollybrook]

@random1781 I am having the same thoughts, since I am already having to fabricate new front mounts to the passenger peg holes for my AS soft racks.  Some give is good, but too much and you are contacting the side plastic housing the ECU.  My situation is exacerbated due to needing longer standoffs and bolts.

 

I guess it depends on just how you have that big hit, something you never can plan for.  That said, I am going for simple with no connection side-to-side.

[random1781]

7 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

@random1781 I am having the same thoughts, since I am already having to fabricate new front mounts to the passenger peg holes for my AS soft racks.  Some give is good, but too much and you are contacting the side plastic housing the ECU.  My situation is exacerbated due to needing longer standoffs and bolts.

 

I guess it depends on just how you have that big hit, something you never can plan for.  That said, I am going for simple with no connection side-to-side.

Why the new mounts?

 

You know, I would wager that fatigue is probably more of the cause than a hard hit, or maybe a hard hit was the final straw after a lot of fatigue. But that's just my impression. I know when I had the Mosko bags on there, my soul hurt hearing the creaking and odd sounds from the luggage while riding on rougher terrain, or washboarding.

[Hollybrook]

Looking at the photos of the cracked frame, I agree that appears to be fatigue.

 

I have a CamelADV enduro exhaust that interferes with the AS racks, so I bent the rack out to avoid it. Now the AS lower mount does not work at all. On the other side, with no passenger pegs, I have a longer standoff that is unnecessary and weakens the lower mount. Thus both sides can benefit from custom mounts. 

 

I have Kriega OS-12 bags to use on the racks, so not too much weight.  I am going to tap out the inner lugs for the front mounts to help spread out the stress there.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Hollybrook

[Dougie]

6 hours ago, random1781 said:

You mean a cross bar on the luggage rack? I had the Adventure Spec soft racks and now the Rally Raid rack, and neither have anything on the back. They both attach on the two lugs and on the passenger peg bracket.

 

I've thought about trying to add a bar across the back for that added support, but the racks themselves have some flex. I wonder if it's better that they are not braced so they absorb more of an impact. I keep going back and forth on that.

Yeah my 600 has hepco and Becker and there’s a brace across the back. But they are supposed to be for hard luggage, even though I didn’t get them for that use. Without one, the top bolts are going to have a slight force twisting them down. I have the andystrapz hoops and they have no other support but the pillion pegs either. But like said above, it probably depends on how much you’re carrying. I’m not too bothered. I’ll leave my breeze blocks at home. I tend to carry heavier stuff (tents/chains/tools)across the seat. 

[john_aero]

for the rear soft luggage why not try likes of the "Heed Rear Crash Bars" then set throw over bags

 

that or set panniers racks and soft panniers

 

 

[john_aero]

or these, they have their own rear crash bars same as heed plus a luggage plate that bolts on giving extra support avoiding the twisting on the upper mounts

 

Yamaha Tenere 700 – Side Luggage Rack ‣ Panonian.

---

Not sure if you just want rear crash-bars, or a complete luggage rack for your Tenere? With our kit you don’t have to choose anymore! Use the rear-crash bars in this kit separately, or in combination with the side luggage plates to...

 

[Ray Ride4life]

I have the Mosko Reckless 40 and 80 and have no racks because it's a rackless system.

My decal kit also covers the rear and i just don't care about scratches, it's an offroad bike and gets scratched anyway so I don't see a reason for adding weight to a sytem that's meant to safe weight.

[john_aero]

Just now, Ray Ride4life said:

I have the Mosko Reckless 40 and 80 and have no racks because it's a rackless system.

My decal kit also covers the rear and i just don't care about scratches, it's an offroad bike and gets scratched anyway so I don't see a reason for adding weight to a sytem that's meant to safe weight.

 

that would be my plan,

 

black plastics look to be just black plastic no paint

 

I have got a clear decal kit or paint protection kit just as a scratch kit for side panels and luggage on rear

[Canzvt]

So my frame failure was due to high load cyclic fatigue over a relatively short period of time. I'm 95% positive this failure happened over a 5 day ride in north western Alberta/eastern BC whereby we spent most of the time on gravel/rocky back roads while loaded as my initial picture states - full Mosko Backcountry's AND Full Rotopax. As I've already established, the racks were severely overloaded, but the roads we were on made it significantly worse. Picture over 150kms of rock roads (10-15 cm diameter rocks with sand/silt between them) and over 900kms of rutted/stutter bump gravel.  I'm quite positive that this rack set up, and frame bosses loaded properly and used for light duty pavement/off highway/sand would stand up for the long haul. For the riding I was doing, soft rackless bags are the only solution for longevity.

[Wintersdark]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:13 PM, Canzvt said:

So here's the new set up with the new Acerbis tank, a Camel Mini Rack and the Mosko Reckless 80L and my new tool tube (I'll do another write up on that elsewhere). I like this set-up much better as it gives me more options.

I'm really interested in your tool tube writeup.  I've been eyeballing making one of those for a while, mounting it parallel to my Huzar exhaust.  Curious about what all you used and how you mounted it.

[Wintersdark]

16 hours ago, john_aero said:

for the rear soft luggage why not try likes of the "Heed Rear Crash Bars" then set throw over bags

 

that or set panniers racks and soft panniers

 

 

That's been my approach.  My rear rack has grab handles between the mounting lugs, and Heed rear crash bars under: 

 

Then I just throw the soft bags over those and it Just Works.  Handy, as I don't carry the side bags on normal rides, only longer trips, so it's really easy to have them on or off without needing full racks or whatever.

[Canzvt]

1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

I'm really interested in your tool tube writeup.  I've been eyeballing making one of those for a while, mounting it parallel to my Huzar exhaust.  Curious about what all you used and how you mounted it.

Here's the link to that post.

 

[Oxxa]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:31 AM, Canzvt said:

Ok, now that I have your attention, IT WASN'T YAMAHA'S FAULT!!! It was the dumb-ass owner - me!

So I was installing my new Acerbis tank, and had all the plastic off for other reasons, and noticed, to my disappointment, that my rear tie down lugs in the frame rails had cracked welds. Now, judging from the corrosion around the crack, I'm guessing it has been cracked awhile. So, that makes me think of the last loads I had on them. I was using Outback Motortek racks with Mosko Moto's Backcountry 25L bags and a rotopax on each side. (see image) Worked great on the road, but not so much on the trail, as the bags were too far forward and would catch your ankles. Turns out, it will crack your frame too! 

 

So, if you plan on loading your racks with too much crap, and riding off road  in some gnarly rocked out sections, consider what I have learned.

 

Luckily the fix was quick. Remove the battery, then the ECU (easy as the plastic is off already), grind out the weld, and spark up the MIG. A little buffing, and a coat of paint, and who would know? I'm also now running Mosko's Reckless setup, so no more need to worry about loading the tie down lugs!

What process did you go through for the touch up paint?

[Canzvt]

Tremclad Matt Black.