Stoltec Moto Rear line ABS Delete

[Stoltec Moto]

This is an exciting post for us.  Short and sweet:  the culmination of weeks of work.  Sometimes the smallest things take the longest!

 

 

We've been playing around with the rear ABS-delete option and are very happy with the performance.  We all know that Yamaha was on a budget when the developed the T7, but many of us REALLY would have liked the ability to switch off the rear ABS while leaving the front engaged.  So, we took matters into our own hands and jettisoned the rear ABS circuit altogether.  Of course, this doesn't make the rear ABS switchable...don't be stupid with the brake pedal!  You'll be rolling old school in the rear, so don't get too sassy.

 

Marketing aside, I have to say - honestly - that the lines did a nice job of firming up the lever on an already new motorcycle.  As rubber lines age, the improvement gets more pronounced.  But right out of the box, the level (and pedal feel) is much improved.  Between the ASV levers and the brake lines, things are finally looking up in the braking department.  Next up are some new pads...

[Stoltec Moto]

Have a few major updates coming to the build progress over the next few days.  But for now, I'll leave this here:

 

This has been a LONG time coming, and we're all thrilled with the final product.  We'll be working out some 'members-only' deals for forum members, but follow that link for some time-sensitive pricing, as well.  

 

More suspension news coming soon!

[Stoltec Moto]

And in other news...we've been getting started on something else fun.  I won't detract from the focus of this thread (too much), but bonus points to anyone who can guess what wintertime T7 project this will spawn...

 

 

[williestreet]

Not a fan of most of the available shocks out there, but finally a Penske for the T7 is the best news I have heard in a while.

 

I am not a fan of Hydraulic preload adjustable shocks.  Hydraulic preload adjustable shocks eventually leak, cost more to maintain and for me are just not needed.  Give me simple threaded adjuster and I am a happy man. 

 

I was going to have the stock shock revalved, but it nice to see  Penske is now an option.  My plans may need to be adjusted. Awesome news.

[Stoltec Moto]

1 hour ago, williestreet said:

Not a fan of most of the available shocks out there, but finally a Penske for the T7 is the best news I have heard in a while.

 

I am not a fan of Hydraulic preload adjustable shocks.  Hydraulic preload adjustable shocks eventually leak, cost more to maintain and for me are just not needed.  Give me simple threaded adjuster and I am a happy man. 

 

I was going to have the stock shock revalved, but it nice to see  Penske is now an option.  My plans may need to be adjusted. Awesome news.

 Personally, I share all of your views. There’s something to be had for simplicity. 
 

For those who may be on the fence, scrub the web on the Penske shock we developed for the Super Tenere. We had that shock in the market before any other options and have sold MANY of those shocks. People have traveled the world on those. 

[williestreet]

Had an old 8981 with the 5 position compression adjuster back when I was club racing.

Better than all the pretty gold garbage.

The fact that Penske is so open with their build data was the best thing about them. 

Try to get shim specs on any other brand.  Not gonna happen.

 

Ask Penske and they lay almost every stack build out for you. 

[Goldentaco]

11 hours ago, Stoltec Moto said:

Have a few major updates coming to the build progress over the next few days.  But for now, I'll leave this here:

 

This has been a LONG time coming, and we're all thrilled with the final product.  We'll be working out some 'members-only' deals for forum members, but follow that link for some time-sensitive pricing, as well.  

 

More suspension news coming soon!

Have you compared it to any other offerings for the Tenere 700?

 

I'd be interested to see how it compares to Tractive, TFX, Nitron, Ohlins etc.

 

I'm interested in it's initial feeling, the first 10-20% stroke where I'd typically want it plush/soft ish but the mid to full stroke it gets firmer.  My current Tractive rear by Rally Raid is still a bit harsh initially but it's great when riding hard/faster than just cruising around.  

 

J

[Stoltec Moto]

48 minutes ago, Goldentaco said:

Have you compared it to any other offerings for the Tenere 700?

 

I'd be interested to see how it compares to Tractive, TFX, Nitron, Ohlins etc.

 

I'm interested in it's initial feeling, the first 10-20% stroke where I'd typically want it plush/soft ish but the mid to full stroke it gets firmer.  My current Tractive rear by Rally Raid is still a bit harsh initially but it's great when riding hard/faster than just cruising around.  

 

J

We deal exclusively with Penske and Ohlins. There are a host of reasons why we favor the Penske products, but the biggest reason is their willingness to work with us on custom specs. If you look at our offerings across our portfolio, each and every one is custom valved to our specs. 
 

I won’t speak directly to your shock, but I’ll say that by in large most aftermarket shocks are overdamped (and sometimes over spring). This is what got us into suspension work in the first place. We could buy anything from a host of suppliers that would work fantastic on racetracks and smooth roads, but anything else was a crap shoot. 
 

We generally dyno the stock shock and then use that as a baseline for honing in on the final valving. But the real time we spend is on the roads and trails. Most of the roads we ride around our parts are little more than tar and chipped goat trails. Or maybe deer trails around here. But you get the point. The rougher the roads, the more likely we ride them for fun. So if that helps orient you toward our tuning philosophy. 
 

One other point I’ll make is that we spent considerable time on that initial plushness you’re referring to. Our first few revisions were overdamped in that region, too. But we’re over the moon satisfied now. Luckily, the stock shock linkage is very well designed with ample progression without being too aggressive. That helps with tuning for an ADV bike. Yamaha typically builds their linkages too linear (in my opinion). The T7 is a welcome improvement. They spent a lot of time optimizing the geometry and it shows. 

[Stoltec Moto]

5 hours ago, williestreet said:

Had an old 8981 with the 5 position compression adjuster back when I was club racing.

Better than all the pretty gold garbage.

The fact that Penske is so open with their build data was the best thing about them. 

Try to get shim specs on any other brand.  Not gonna happen.

 

Ask Penske and they lay almost every stack build out for you. 

 

THIS X1000!  

[DickNixon]

Just ordered the Triple Clicker for my T7, Spoke to Stoltec on the phone most helpful.  I'll report when it is installed!

 

[Solleveld]

I did this bypass myself. But I had problems that when I locked the rear wheel at a higher speed. Seems like the ABS system felt something was wrong and turned off the system and turned on the ABS lamp.

[Stoltec Moto]

Sorry, seems like forum updates aren't making it to our inbox.  Are you using our kit?

[Stoltec Moto]

Due to a few customer requests...we developed a complete ABS-delete option.  Ready to order now, this kit goes old school - the ABS pump is bypassed completely.

[Goldentaco]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:08 AM, Stoltec Moto said:

Sorry, seems like forum updates aren't making it to our inbox.  Are you using our kit?

Have you tried to duplicate this result with your kit?

 

I am assuming your kit physically bypasses the ABS pump and plugs the connections.

 

J

[Stoltec Moto]

We have three kits now:
 

The rear ABS delete kit removes the connection between the ABS pump and the rear brake circuit completely. 

The ABS delete kit removes the connection between the ABS pump and both brake circuits. 
 

The stock replacement kit leaves the ABS connections to maintain the factory configuration. 
 

With any of these kits, DO NOT remove any of the electronic devices or electrical harnesses. This includes the wheel speed sensors. 

[Mortaygo]

On 10/29/2021 at 5:02 AM, Stoltec Moto said:

  

 

 

We have three kits now:
 

The rear ABS delete kit removes the connection between the ABS pump and the rear brake circuit completely. 

The ABS delete kit removes the connection between the ABS pump and both brake circuits. 
 

The stock replacement kit leaves the ABS connections to maintain the factory configuration. 
 

With any of these kits, DO NOT remove any of the electronic devices or electrical harnesses. This includes the wheel speed sensors. 

 

With the full abs delete, can the rear wheel sensor be used to rear the speedometer?

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by AZJW
Edited for clarity

[Stoltec Moto]

On 4/14/2023 at 8:15 AM, Mortaygo said:

 

With the full abs delete, can the rear wheel sensor be used to rear the speedometer?

 

 

Whether the ABS unit is left on the bike (but bypassed) or removed (with the plug and play delete module we sell), the speedo still works with the sensors in place.

[Mortaygo]

1 hour ago, Stoltec Moto said:

 

Whether the ABS unit is left on the bike (but bypassed) or removed (with the plug and play delete module we sell), the speedo still works with the sensors in place.

I want to remove the front sensor though due to a fork swap 

[mcbrien]

Is there a way to link rear brake to front brake so it works like the 1200 Tenere? 

[AZJW]

7 minutes ago, mcbrien said:

Is there a way to link rear brake to front brake so it works like the 1200 Tenere? 

If you quote the party you're addressing or ad @Stoltec Moto in front of their user name, they'll be notified of your post.

[mcbrien]

9 hours ago, Stoltec Moto said:

 

Whether the ABS unit is left on the bike (but bypassed) or removed (with the plug and play delete module we sell), the speedo still works with the sensors in place.

Is there a way to link the rear brake with the front like the 1200 Tenere?

[Stoltec Moto]

Not on this bike, unfortunately. 

[Stoltec Moto]

23 hours ago, Mortaygo said:

I want to remove the front sensor though due to a fork swap 

I misunderstood, sorry. We never pulled the sensors, so would have to check this on the next bike we have here. 

[A4926007]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:00 AM, Stoltec Moto said:

We're getting to the point where only keen eyes can tell what bike this is!

 

 

Beyond doing suspension work for a living, I was keen on getting the forks apart.  While the forks never scared me (cue the MT-09 family), I was never smitten with them, either.  They worked well enough, but I found them to be very soft in the top of the stroke and rather harsh in the lower half.  In fact, I was never able to use the bottom 3" (75 mm) of exposed chrome slider, no matter what I tried, or how I rode.  On road, or off.

 

Springs out, time to check the 'bottom'.  Turns out, the lowest 1.18" (30 mm) of the fork is unreachable.  This shows the cartridge fully collapsed, metal to metal contact.

 

 

But that only tells a part of the story.  Like most modern KYB forks, there is a hydraulic lock-out (but no rubber bump stop) on this fork.  Unlike the others on current Yamahas, the lockout fit is tight.  VERY tight.  The radial circumferential clearance between the lockout and the cartridge body is the tightest we've seen on any other Yamaha.  The lockout takes up the bottom-most 30 mm of travel and is only accessible under sustained high-load low speed compression (think race track braking at the end of the front straight).  High speed inputs will just lock out travel, effectively serving as a fluid bump stop.

 

 

Now, interestingly, if you take a good hard look at the top face of the lock-out, you'll see a hair-like piece of debris.  No, this isn't sloppy cleanup on our part.  It's a razor thin metal sliver that happened during the factory swaging operation!  That's another first for us...

 

Here's the guts, minus the springs:

 

 

Like some of the other lower-cost cartridges out there, the cartridge bodies are steel.  For reference, the Super Tenere cartridges are aluminum, which saves a substantial amount of weight.  This is cost cutting, pure and simple.  Though, functionally...there's nothing wrong with steel aside from the weight.

 

And the base valve:

 

 

Unfortunately, KYB staked the assembly together - REAL good.  There's no easy way to take this apart to get at the factory needle.  Would have been nice (for us), if they used a circlip instead.  As it stands, we're going to treat this part as non-serviceable for now.  Won't dig any deeper unless we find a need.

 

 

And here's the rebound assembly:

 

 

As you can see, they gave us a standard high flow check valve in place of a mid-valve.  We're going to leave this in place with our revised pistons and shim stacks, but this might be a suitable place to get some additional tuning done...a little down the road.

 

Here's a better look at both shim stacks.  Note the two stage layout:

 

 

Another surprising find are the rebound needles:

 

 

From left to right:  14-16 FZ-09, XSR900, T7.  Knowing how far Yamaha has come over the years, I was totally surprised to see the short/blunt taper.  There's just not much range of adjustment here.  It's approaching an all-or-nothing adjustment.

 

Now for comparison's sake, here's one of the needles we have at our disposal.  Much more range of adjustment, and much better flow characteristics through the bleed port.

 

 

The good news, obviously, is that there is enough room in the rebound holder to accommodate this.  I didn't expect it to fit (and function), but it does.  Odd choice on Yamaha/KYB's part, frankly.  They were so close...

 

On the pistons, here's a few shots of our baseline:

 

 

Note the radiused inlets to the flow two flow ports.  These pistons add about 20% damping vs. stock, with better flow characteristics.  We've been using this design for years on our Super Tenere kits and have hundreds of happy customers romping around.

 

On the sides, you can see that the o-ring has been relocated to make room for a better entrance to the check valve passage.  Like the other side of the piston, this makes for a more laminar style flow, with a more gentle change of direction.

 

 

Here they are, fully assembled and ready to go back in.

 

 

As it turns out, I got sidetracked and forgot to take a photo of the spring rating event.  But not much to show, anyway.  0.56 kg/mm rate on both of them.

 

Hi,

Excuse me, how to disassemble the red circle part?

Is it thread type?

Need to heat?

 

Thanks

[williestreet]

1 hour ago, A4926007 said:

 

Hi,

Excuse me, how to disassemble the red circle part?

Is it thread type?

Need to heat?

 

Thanks

Yes the aluminum top portion threads into the steel cartridge tube.  A little heat to soften the factory locktite, but don't go crazy.  

Buy or make a proper cartridge tube holder.  You don't want to damage/bend the cartridge.