Off road bike for newbie!!

[Aleksandar13]

Hello chaps, 

 

I know this thread might open up a can of worms but why not...

 

Some of you are aware that my T700 is an SM bike and road only and I would never consider taking the bike off road.. This is my choice and it might be in others peoples views the wrong one but I am happy with the decision and would never change it back to stock. 

 

That being said I am thinking about buying a second bike, I have never adventured off road and this would be my first time... I am planning on going off road before I commit to buying a bike but I would like to discuss what people think about some trail bikes for beginners. 

I usually buy new or slightly used and I would prefer to keep it this way but let's see where the discussion ends. 

I have couple of bikes in mind and they are all 250cc, I am told would be enough for a beginner but not lack fun and must be tall enough for 6.4 and a bit on the heavier side 104kg.

450cc would be nice but I might get myself killed

My list :

AJP PR5 250...seems to be a Portuguese brand with decent quality and good value for money less than 5k in UK. 

Suzuki rmz 250 : good deals to be had around 5k no idea of how good bad it is. 

Yamaha wr250 must be my favourite but it is higher in the range of 6to 7k price wise. 

Crf250 good value but soma say it is heavy.? 

Husqvarna and Ktm are in the background due to reliability concerns but if you have recommendations please let me know. 

 

Main concern with all the above is the maintenance and reliability. 

Ajp has a street engine and needs oil change every 1800 miles. 

I know most manuals on the off road bikes are probably saying 4h oil changes but is this really the case..? 

What bike would you recommend for green lanes and off road use considering maintenance , reliability cost and fun factor. 

I am no racer just want to be able to try off road and lanes and enjoy the nature and the lanes. Mileage per year should be between 3k and 4k a year if this becomes a routine of mine as it is with the T700 SM. 

Look forward to your answers.

Regards, 

Aleks 

[Rich TT]

29 minutes ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Hello chaps, 

 

I know this thread might open up a can of worms but why not...

 

Some of you are aware that my T700 is an SM bike and road only and I would never consider taking the bike off road.. This is my choice and it might be in others peoples views the wrong one but I am happy with the decision and would never change it back to stock. 

 

That being said I am thinking about buying a second bike, I have never adventured off road and this would be my first time... I am planning on going off road before I commit to buying a bike but I would like to discuss what people think about some trail bikes for beginners. 

I usually buy new or slightly used and I would prefer to keep it this way but let's see where the discussion ends. 

I have couple of bikes in mind and they are all 250cc, I am told would be enough for a beginner but not lack fun and must be tall enough for 6.4 and a bit on the heavier side 104kg.

450cc would be nice but I might get myself killed

My list :

AJP PR5 250...seems to be a Portuguese brand with decent quality and good value for money less than 5k in UK. 

Suzuki rmz 250 : good deals to be had around 5k no idea of how good bad it is. 

Yamaha wr250 must be my favourite but it is higher in the range of 6to 7k price wise. 

Crf250 good value but soma say it is heavy.? 

Husqvarna and Ktm are in the background due to reliability concerns but if you have recommendations please let me know. 

 

Main concern with all the above is the maintenance and reliability. 

Ajp has a street engine and needs oil change every 1800 miles. 

I know most manuals on the off road bikes are probably saying 4h oil changes but is this really the case..? 

What bike would you recommend for green lanes and off road use considering maintenance , reliability cost and fun factor. 

I am no racer just want to be able to try off road and lanes and enjoy the nature and the lanes. Mileage per year should be between 3k and 4k a year if this becomes a routine of mine as it is with the T700 SM. 

Look forward to your answers.

Regards, 

Aleks 

 

Good thread Aleks and I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

 

There are lots of Enduro try out schools etc., and I'd recommend having a go on one of those to see what you think, once this lockdown us over. Try and ride a 250 and a 450 back to back as many of them have both. You'll find the 250 much easier to ride fast.

 

I would choose the 250 despite your manly proportions! The 250's have plenty of go when you rev them and are so light and forgiving. 

 

The KTM is arguably too race focused, so I'd go for the WR or CRF. The CRF 250 X is the one you want not the CRF 250 L as that is heavy and a detuned road engine is essence. I think it's only got 27 BHP or something and much heavier than the X or WR.

 

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the AJP but I'd check reliability from forums and also check spares are available and not too expensive.

 

Maintenance is not too bad. I have an old KTM525EXC and it's a simple case of dropping the oil every 15 hours or so and checking the valves every so often. Both are super easy to do on this bike. You'll spend more time cleaning it that real maintenance!

 

Off roading is loads of fun and also does wonders for your road riding too, as the bike is always sliding, spinning up etc.

 

There are still plenty of lanes (BOATs) and other unclassified roads you can ride in the UK plus there are Enduro practice tracks fitted around.

 

Hope that helps.

Rich

[Noel McCutcheon]

Scroll down to the Adult non-xxx  section ....

 

What's The Best Dirt Bike For Beginners?- [2019 Guide]

---

The best dirt bike for beginners can be found right here. I provide remomendations on each age group and height. Dead simple!

 

[Whitey66]

Have you considered an older XR400 ? One of the most reliable, forgiving and low maintenance bikes around.

[Aleksandar13]

4 hours ago, Rich TT said:

Good thread Aleks and I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

 

There are lots of Enduro try out schools etc., and I'd recommend having a go on one of those to see what you think, once this lockdown us over. Try and ride a 250 and a 450 back to back as many of them have both. You'll find the 250 much easier to ride fast.

 

I would choose the 250 despite your manly proportions! The 250's have plenty of go when you rev them and are so light and forgiving. 

 

The KTM is arguably too race focused, so I'd go for the WR or CRF. The CRF 250 X is the one you want not the CRF 250 L as that is heavy and a detuned road engine is essence. I think it's only got 27 BHP or something and much heavier than the X or WR.

 

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the AJP but I'd check reliability from forums and also check spares are available and not too expensive.

 

Maintenance is not too bad. I have an old KTM525EXC and it's a simple case of dropping the oil every 15 hours or so and checking the valves every so often. Both are super easy to do on this bike. You'll spend more time cleaning it that real maintenance!

 

Off roading is loads of fun and also does wonders for your road riding too, as the bike is always sliding, spinning up etc.

 

There are still plenty of lanes (BOATs) and other unclassified roads you can ride in the UK plus there are Enduro practice tracks fitted around.

 

Hope that helps.

Rich

Hi Rich, 

Thank you for your advice, always nice to hear from people with experience.. 

Like you have mentioned 250cc is the target here after I've tried out a day out on a bike. 

I have found one these people that do an mx day out for adults 

Adults - MX Try Out

---

Our off-road experience days are run at a private facility (IP28 8QL) close...

Might be worth a try... £210 for a full day out with gear an bike if I understand that correctly. 

Should be a fun day and give me the right idea in terms of how much fun it is. 

 

 

[Aleksandar13]

26 minutes ago, Whitey66 said:

Have you considered an older XR400 ? One of the most reliable, forgiving and low maintenance bikes around.

I would prefer something manufactured in the last 3 years really..

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, X Plane said:

Scroll down to the Adult non-xxx  section ....

 

What's The Best Dirt Bike For Beginners?- [2019 Guide]

---

The best dirt bike for beginners can be found right here. I provide remomendations on each age group and height. Dead simple!

 

Thank you for posting..I've had a read and it is helpful to know seat height for each bike but I am not really bothered as I'm 6.4 and long legs... Would probably fit on any mx, enduro bike. 

Honda seems to score high in that article and the WR250R... 

 

[Cruizin]

10 hours ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Hello chaps, 

 

I know this thread might open up a can of worms but why not...

 

Some of you are aware that my T700 is an SM bike and road only and I would never consider taking the bike off road.. This is my choice and it might be in others peoples views the wrong one but I am happy with the decision and would never change it back to stock. 

 

That being said I am thinking about buying a second bike, I have never adventured off road and this would be my first time... I am planning on going off road before I commit to buying a bike but I would like to discuss what people think about some trail bikes for beginners. 

I usually buy new or slightly used and I would prefer to keep it this way but let's see where the discussion ends. 

I have couple of bikes in mind and they are all 250cc, I am told would be enough for a beginner but not lack fun and must be tall enough for 6.4 and a bit on the heavier side 104kg.

450cc would be nice but I might get myself killed

My list :

AJP PR5 250...seems to be a Portuguese brand with decent quality and good value for money less than 5k in UK. 

Suzuki rmz 250 : good deals to be had around 5k no idea of how good bad it is. 

Yamaha wr250 must be my favourite but it is higher in the range of 6to 7k price wise. 

Crf250 good value but soma say it is heavy.? 

Husqvarna and Ktm are in the background due to reliability concerns but if you have recommendations please let me know. 

 

Main concern with all the above is the maintenance and reliability. 

Ajp has a street engine and needs oil change every 1800 miles. 

I know most manuals on the off road bikes are probably saying 4h oil changes but is this really the case..? 

What bike would you recommend for green lanes and off road use considering maintenance , reliability cost and fun factor. 

I am no racer just want to be able to try off road and lanes and enjoy the nature and the lanes. Mileage per year should be between 3k and 4k a year if this becomes a routine of mine as it is with the T700 SM. 

Look forward to your answers.

Regards, 

Aleks 

 

Best off-road bikes for adult newbies is a 250 four stroke of most any brand. You can get a kouba link and lower the height up to 1.5 inches , unless it's a KTM with PDS suspension.

250 four stroke is a mild engine but strong enough to climb hills.

 

Yamaha WR 250, CRF 250x are two of the most reliable Dirtbikes you will find. If you buy used , be sure to check compression by using your hand on the kick starter. If it's real easy to push the Kickstarter then the engine is almost toast.

 

I have another suggestion for you. The Sherco 300 four-stroke factory edition. It is, in my opinion, the most perfect dirtbike ever made. It is very easy to ride, revs for days and has the coveted KYB SSS forks. Sherco in my opinion has surpassed KTM Honda and Yamaha in the off-road segment. Their 300 four-stroke is the very best trail bike I have ever ridden. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

[Guest]

Sorry I sold,it.

If I Find a good used one on craigs list Will get another.

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, Cruizin said:

Best off-road bikes for adult newbies is a 250 four stroke of most any brand. You can get a kouba link and lower the height up to 1.5 inches , unless it's a KTM with PDS suspension.

250 four stroke is a mild engine but strong enough to climb hills.

 

Yamaha WR 250, CRF 250x are two of the most reliable Dirtbikes you will find. If you buy used , be sure to check compression by using your hand on the kick starter. If it's real easy to push the Kickstarter then the engine is almost toast.

 

I have another suggestion for you. The Sherco 300 four-stroke factory edition. It is, in my opinion, the most perfect dirtbike ever made. It is very easy to ride, revs for days and has the coveted KYB SSS forks. Sherco in my opinion has surpassed KTM Honda and Yamaha in the off-road segment. Their 300 four-stroke is the very best trail bike I have ever ridden. 

 

 

 

Thanks, I have seen one of these in Lyndon Poskitt latest YouTube video and was wondering what is the story behind the bike. 

Looks amazing I must admit.. 

 

[Cruizin]

4 minutes ago, Aleksandar13 said:

Thanks, I have seen one of these in Lyndon Poskitt latest YouTube video and was wondering what is the story behind the bike. 

Looks amazing I must admit.. 

 

Its an awesome bike, I suggest the factory edition to get the better forks. IT also has a fuel map switch on the handlebars, you can press the button to reduce power, for real technical terrain and then open it up to full power to blast down dirt roads or to fly up any hillclimb.  Again, it is the most perfect dirtbike I have ever ridden.  I would have one, but over here they cost $11,000 usd, which is way too much for a dirtbike. 

[Aleksandar13]

This could be one of my favourite bikes until now... Yes it is not the off road focused king that people crave to have and it might not be the best... 

I'd I'm to use this over the winter months and have fun green laning it might just be the one...service intervals are good... New sprockets, new springs.. Tail tidy and exhaust... Good to go. 

What do you guys think? 

Aleks 

[tenerecanada]

24 minutes ago, Aleksandar13 said:

This could be one of my favourite bikes until now... Yes it is not the off road focused king that people crave to have and it might not be the best... 

I'd I'm to use this over the winter months and have fun green laning it might just be the one...service intervals are good... New sprockets, new springs.. Tail tidy and exhaust... Good to go. 

What do you guys think? 

Aleks 

I have strong opinions on this bike as I use it during our sloppy months here in Canada, salty roads etc. It is an underpowered heavier dualsport, but the only other real comparable bikes are the Yamaha and Kawasaki, which are both quite similar. They each have their benefits, and if I were to do it all over again I would give the Yamaha WR250 a shot with a little more pep and higher seat height. Apparently the Honda puts out the better torque numbers. I have put 17,000 km's on the Honda in 18 months and it has performed exceptionally well. It can handle extreme amounts of abuse, and maintenance is minimal and beyond easy. Switching sprockets from 14-40 to 13-42 wakes the bike up quite a bit, but you are screaming down the highway above 8k RPM when you do so. The K&N air filter also helped wake up the engine significantly. The horsepower gains from additional exhaust / fuel controller mods are not worth your time. There is no substitute for a 250cc bike when you are truly offroading, and I can't imagine taking a larger bike into some of the areas I ride. There will always be room in my stable for a bike this size. There is something to be said about driving a bike to its limits as well, going through all the gears quickly and using every bit of the 250 ccs on offer. 2017+ models saw some minor improvements as well, so if you do strike, grab  a recent one. The first problem you will have with this bike is its suspension - you are off to a better start with the Yamaha out the gate in this regard.

[Aleksandar13]

8 minutes ago, tenerecanada said:

I have strong opinions on this bike as I use it during our sloppy months here in Canada, salty roads etc. It is an underpowered heavier dualsport, but the only other real comparable bikes are the Yamaha and Kawasaki, which are both quite similar. They each have their benefits, and if I were to do it all over again I would give the Yamaha WR250 a shot with a little more pep and higher seat height. Apparently the Honda puts out the better torque numbers. I have put 17,000 km's on the Honda in 18 months and it has performed exceptionally well. It can handle extreme amounts of abuse, and maintenance is minimal and beyond easy. Switching sprockets from 14-40 to 13-42 wakes the bike up quite a bit, but you are screaming down the highway above 8k RPM when you do so. The K&N air filter also helped wake up the engine significantly. The horsepower gains from additional exhaust / fuel controller mods are not worth your time. There is no substitute for a 250cc bike when you are truly offroading, and I can't imagine taking a larger bike into some of the areas I ride. There will always be room in my stable for a bike this size. There is something to be said about driving a bike to its limits as well, going through all the gears quickly and using every bit of the 250 ccs on offer. 2017+ models saw some minor improvements as well, so if you do strike, grab  a recent one. The first problem you will have with this bike is its suspension - you are off to a better start with the Yamaha out the gate in this regard.

Thank you for your input... I see you have mentioned the wr250 and that is a very good bike according to people who know what they are talking about in terms of reliability and suspension plus it looks awesome and next to my T700sm it would make a complete package... But wouldn't the Honda be a more reliable bike long term? 

Maintenance on the 2019 crf250l is 8k miles or every year... 

Presumably I do 3.5k miles each year with this bike that would mean how many oil changes on the yamaha?

Price wise the wr250 is 2k more than the Honda and probably needs road registration which I don't know how much it is... 

Headache 

Aleks 

 

[tenerecanada]

I weigh 170lbs with gear on. My only hesitation to recommend this bike would be your weight, and your expectations for suspension during offroad riding. If you cut through all my bullshit straight to the facts, I would gladly recommend this bike to anyone looking to do exactly what you stated in your original post. The price is right, and it is the perfect way to enter into dualsporting as a stepping stone and get your feet wet. Owning this convinced me that I do not need a KTM 500 exc - straight up too much bike. I would much rather bang this thing around, drive it to its limit, and know that it will function just fine for years to come. I've submerged it underwater, driven all winter long, dropped it a few hundred times - you name it. This class of bike is the cheapest to insure as well, which is a bonus. The best performing tires in this class in my opinion are Pirelli MT-21 front and Dunlop D606 rear.

[Aleksandar13]

1 minute ago, tenerecanada said:

I weigh 170lbs with gear on. My only hesitation to recommend this bike would be your weight, and your expectations for suspension during offroad riding. If you cut through all my bullshit straight to the facts, I would gladly recommend this bike to anyone looking to do exactly what you stated in your original post. The price is right, and it is the perfect way to enter into dualsporting as a stepping stone and get your feet wet. Owning this convinced me that I do not need a KTM 500 exc - straight up too much bike. I would much rather bang this thing around, drive it to its limit, and know that it will function just fine for years to come. I've submerged it underwater, driven all winter long, dropped it a few hundred times - you name it. This class of bike is the cheapest to insure as well, which is a bonus. The best performing tires in this class in my opinion are Pirelli MT-21 front and Dunlop D606 rear.

I am aware that with my height and weight most suspensions won't cut the bill and I have to invest in upgrading the springs or even changing the rear shock... Exactly as you have stated I want a bike that is reliable and easy to maintain without having the maintenance schedule in the back of my head every time I start it and want to travel to a nice off road section that is 50 miles away..

For someone that wants to start in off road and use the bike as a winter fun machine this could be the best bang for your buck . 

Here is one that sounds nice and looks cool as well...

 

[Dave G]

Hey Alek. The WR250R was my first dirt bike and now, 7 years later, I'm on my 4th which is a KTM 300XCW.  Each time I changed, it was for better performance.  Those 250 4-strokes can be a little soft on performance and all of them are very heavy compared to a 2-stroke.  I would not get too worried about oil change frequency because any dirt bike should have a lot of oil changes. It just takes a few minutes.  Even if you think you are going to stay on the green trails, most riding areas have all kinds of trails mixed in and you'll almost certainly want to hit the "fun" stuff now and then.  My best advice is get all the performance you can afford because the most expensive thing to do is what I did, keep buying different bikes until I found what I really needed.  You can pick up a KTM 300 in the states for around $4000.  It will be a few years old but that's a bike you can ride a few years and then sell for about the same amount.  If you buy a new bike, you'll lose a ton of money if you decide you want more bike...which you will.  If you want a newer bike, the Beta Xtrainer 300 is a good choice and less expensive than a new KTM.  Either way, I don't recommend a 250 2-stroke because those are really for better riders who keep on the throttle all the time.  A 300 is much more forgiving at low speeds.  Plus 2-strokes don't flame out which drives me crazy.  So that's just my advice.  Whatever you do, I'm sure you'll have a blast on the trail.  Now if those Teneres would just show up in the states.  (By the way, I just celebrated my 60th birthday.)

[Guest]

I suggested a wr 250r before

350 or 400 Dr will do as well.

  You will need to get either set up for your weight.

...then ride like it was stolen.

[Guest]

Betas, ktms, Huskies!

are cool.

 Do you want to spend money on cool or getting faster?

[Aleksandar13]

2 hours ago, Dave G said:

Hey Alek. The WR250R was my first dirt bike and now, 7 years later, I'm on my 4th which is a KTM 300XCW.  Each time I changed, it was for better performance.  Those 250 4-strokes can be a little soft on performance and all of them are very heavy compared to a 2-stroke.  I would not get too worried about oil change frequency because any dirt bike should have a lot of oil changes. It just takes a few minutes.  Even if you think you are going to stay on the green trails, most riding areas have all kinds of trails mixed in and you'll almost certainly want to hit the "fun" stuff now and then.  My best advice is get all the performance you can afford because the most expensive thing to do is what I did, keep buying different bikes until I found what I really needed.  You can pick up a KTM 300 in the states for around $4000.  It will be a few years old but that's a bike you can ride a few years and then sell for about the same amount.  If you buy a new bike, you'll lose a ton of money if you decide you want more bike...which you will.  If you want a newer bike, the Beta Xtrainer 300 is a good choice and less expensive than a new KTM.  Either way, I don't recommend a 250 2-stroke because those are really for better riders who keep on the throttle all the time.  A 300 is much more forgiving at low speeds.  Plus 2-strokes don't flame out which drives me crazy.  So that's just my advice.  Whatever you do, I'm sure you'll have a blast on the trail.  Now if those Teneres would just show up in the states.  (By the way, I just celebrated my 60th birthday.)

Thank you for your kind words... I tend to pick up bikes brand new or very slightly used... I have swapped 3 bikes in 3 years to end up with the T700 which I love and it is a keeper for a long time hence the plan for a winter beater and trail bike. 

I don't want to start a debate between Japanese or European bikes but since owning 2 bmw I tend to go for Japanese brands as they tend to be more reliable... This is my perspective and for others it might be different. 

I'm based in the UK and most enduro bikes here (newer models) start at around 5k 7k and that is where I want to be... The Honda crf250l offers a beginners bike with huge maintenance intervals and it's easy on the pocket. 

Question is how much money would I invest to get it to the standard I want in terms of suspension in comparison to a yamaha wr250... I've been told the wr has a good suspension..

It is never an easy choice.. I have read that you can get between 200 and 400 hours out of an engine from yamaha or ktm like @Rich TTktm...

It's very hard for me to judge hours instead of miles...so 200h means.. How many miles? 

Happy 60th birthday, hope you are safe and let's see some photos of the bikes. 

Aleks 

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, gone2seed said:

Betas, ktms, Huskies!

are cool.

 Do you want to spend money on cool or getting faster?

I want to learn to ride off road and enjoy the nature while we can and they don't take that away from us as well. 

Probably not going to be the fastest but I can say that riding the T700 in comparison to a 1200 boxer is a lot more rewarding and you learn a lot more than on the big bore bikes. 

Are you saying that the wr in comparison to the crf250l will be a better bike to learn on? 

[Cruizin]

Im telling you, the Sherco SEF 300 is the most perfect dirtbike ever made. Easy to ride, revs high, perfect suspension, plenty of power, but not too much. Traction everywhere. 

 

[Guest]

Get what you can afford to throw down the trail.

 

You will gain more if your only concern is your own butt.

Not the bike.

  I learned this getting into street bikes; and racing.

Never learned that much on the SuperDuke,

The SV spit me off enough times tho...

  “guess that is as fast as I’ll get through that corner”

Everyone has there own comfort level. Crashing sucks. In the dirt, on the track.

  safety is a relative term.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Guest

[Aleksandar13]

1 hour ago, gone2seed said:

Get what you can afford to throw down the trail.

 

You will gain more if your only concern is your own butt.

Not the bike.

  I learned this getting into street bikes; and racing.

Never learned that much on the SuperDuke,

The SV spit me off enough times tho...

  “guess that is as fast as I’ll get through that corner”

Everyone has there own comfort level. Crashing sucks. In the dirt, on the track.

  safety is a relative term.

 

 

Thank you, some test rides need to be organised soon. 

Once the wife is happy with the new kitchen we can press buttons easily